The Pope Insults Our Prophet PBUH

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Sep 17, 2006
Concord wrote:
xibit wrote:
fayz wrote:not justifying anything but he did issue an apology


I wonder why the pope hasnt aplogised to Muslims in person surely, if he didn't mean it, he should.

why doesn’t he?

the Head of the Catholic Church says something it can not be overlooked.


I'm I missing something. :?: You just quoted Fayz who stated the pope apologized but in your post you ask why the pope doesn't :roll: I must admit my reading comprehension ain't the best but...



what the hell, didnt u read my post . i thought english was supposed to be ur language ??

and u call that a frekin apology please explain that what does the "true sense" in insulting the Prophet PBUH mean.

he should come on tv or in public and admit that he made a mistake and come up with reason that why he said such stuff.

Mel Gibson had an excuse he was drunk still he was made to suffer for his anti Jew views.

What excuse does the pope have , was he drunk too? or may be high on crack.

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Sep 17, 2006
shafique wrote:
Concord wrote:
shafique wrote:(I personally wouldn't have brought up the fact that he was a nazi during the war as I do not think it has relevance to his utterances today.)



And where did you get that he "was a Nazi". As you know at his age and time it was compulsory to join the Nazi youth, etc. So noble of you not to bring it up :roll:


xbit called the Pope a nazi - that is what I was referring to. For interests of clarity, the Pope has said that he joined the Hilter Youth organisation only when it became mandatory in 1941 when he was 14. Critics have pointed out that it actually became mandatory in 1936 and reinforced in 1939, and Hitler Youth membership took place from the age of 10.

As I said though, I don't think his membership of Hitler Youth has anything to do with the choice of quotation which besmirches the religion and the founder of the religion. If someone had done the research and did not want to perpetuate the fallacy of Islam being spread by the sword, then that person would not choose the quotation chosen. This is my opinion after having read the whole speech and considering the context of quotation.

The apology falls short of acknowledging the fallacies in the quotation.

Cheers,
Shafique


Excellent stuff Shafique appreciate it. But I think people like concord who are supposed to read ur post. Can't understand English.
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Re: The Pope insults our Prophet PBUH Sep 17, 2006
bear wrote:Sorry, but as well as all you have mentioned, I think the Templars need be specifically noted as well in his next speech. A group of Knights commissioned by the Vatican that began the Vatican bank and played a major role in the crusades that were then labeled heretics when they realized foul and inhumane plans of the Holy See.

Excelent post.


dude this stuff is nothin we can rite a whole book on how the catholic faith is a sham..

oh wait a book has alread been writen..
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The unmistakable whiff of Christian triumphalism Sep 17, 2006
The unmistakable whiff of Christian triumphalism

This was no casual slip. Beneath his scholarly rhetoric, the Pope's logic seemed to be that Islam is dangerous and godless

Giles Fraser
Saturday September 16, 2006
The Guardian

John Paul II's pontificate was largely defined by his relationship with a global conflict between west and east. Last Tuesday evening, in a badly judged speech before a home crowd of Bavarian academics, Benedict XVI may well have set the parameters of his own period as Pope, pitching himself into a debate over Islam that has prompted outrage throughout the Muslim world.

"Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." These were not the Pope's words, but those of an obscure Byzantine emperor, Manuel II Paleologos, back in the 14th century. And yes, the Pope did make it clear he was offering a quotation. Even so, these words fell from the lips of the spiritual leader of a billion Christians without anything like enough qualification. There was no phrase distancing himself from the claim that Muhammad was responsible for evil. It's little surprise, therefore, that the remarks have roused anger and demands for a personal apology.

Christopher Tyerman's latest book on the Crusades, God's War, argues persuasively that analogies between the Crusades and the present global conflict are often overdrawn and historically dubious. That may be so. But it's an argument that doesn't cut much ice with millions of Muslims. After all, it was one of Benedict's predecessors, Urban II, who first summoned a Christian jihad against Islam. And it's born-again Christians who have been at the forefront of support for the invasion of Iraq, the occupation of Palestinian lands by Israel, and the whole "reorganisation" of the Middle East - a catastrophe in which many thousands of Muslims have lost their lives.

Any comments by a Christian leader that touch upon this wound are bound to be interpreted from every possible angle. The Pope must have known this. If millions of Muslims were offended by the scribblings of a few unknown Danish cartoonists, it's pretty obvious the enormous potential for harm that might flow from a few ill-judged comments by the vicar of Rome.

Furthermore, the Pope has form on all of this. Just a few months before he was elected, he spoke out against Muslim Turkey joining the EU. Christian Europe must be defended, he argued. It didn't go down well at the time with Muslim leaders. But what makes his comments from Bavaria doubly insensitive is that Munich and its surrounding towns are home to thousands of Gastarbeiter, many from Turkey, who are often badly treated by local Germans and frequently subjected to racism. It won't be lost on them that Manuel II ran his Christian empire from what is now the Turkish city of Istanbul. And reference to that time, in circumstances such as these, has the unmistakable whiff of Christian triumphalism.

For the most part, the Pope's address was a scholarly exercise that sought to challenge the idea that rationality is intrinsically and necessarily secular. We must "overcome the self-imposed limitation of reason to the empirically verifiable", he insisted. Most Christians would agree. But even here there was a sharp criticism of Islam buried beneath the scholarly rhetoric. For the Pope argued that in Muslim teaching, because "God is absolutely transcendent", He is "not bound up with any of our categories, even that of rationality". In other words, there is no reasoning in or with Islam. Which, surely, is another way of the Pope saying how dangerous he thinks Islam is.

This is why the Pope's remarks look rather more than just a slip or a casual mistake. The speech concludes with a further reference to the views of the Byzantine emperor: " 'Not to act reasonably, not to act with logos, is contrary to the nature of God,' said Manuel II, according to his Christian understanding of God, in response to his Persian interlocutor. It is to this great logos, to this breadth of reason, that we invite our partners in the dialogue of cultures."


Blog sites have been buzzing with the thought that the Pope may have the president of Iran in mind when he speaks of Manuel's Persian interlocutor. But we don't need to speculate upon a contemporary casting for this speech to recognise its dangers. For in claiming that Islam may be beyond reason, and then to claim that to act without reason is to act contrary to the will of God, is pretty close to the assertion that this religion is godless. And that's not how different faiths ought to speak to each other - especially when we all have each other's blood on our hands.
As it is written: "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?"

· Dr Giles Fraser is the vicar of Putney and a lecturer in philosophy at Wadham College, Oxford
giles.fraser@btinternet.com
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Re: The Pope insults our Prophet PBUH Sep 17, 2006
xibit wrote:
bear wrote:Sorry, but as well as all you have mentioned, I think the Templars need be specifically noted as well in his next speech. A group of Knights commissioned by the Vatican that began the Vatican bank and played a major role in the crusades that were then labeled heretics when they realized foul and inhumane plans of the Holy See.

Excelent post.


dude this stuff is nothin we can rite a whole book on how the catholic faith is a sham..

oh wait a book has alread been writen..


there are books which say islam is a sham........so will u believe em?
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Sep 17, 2006
Chocoholic wrote:I dont' care if I get flamed for this, I'm going to say it anyway! It was not the Pope's opinion, he was quoting from another text, rightly or wrongly. However the reaction from the Islamic world is once angain nothing more than ridiculous, with threats to kill the Pope, down with the Vatican etc etc etc.

Do you ever see Westerners or Christians reacting in such a way over fanatical Islamic 'clerics' calls for the killing and destruction of the western world - NO!!!!

Get over it!


So if the Iranian President was to quote say....'Hitler''....and his views on Jews...would that be acceptable because it was just quoting somebody else?
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Re: The Pope insults our Prophet PBUH Sep 17, 2006
sniper420 wrote:
xibit wrote:
bear wrote:Sorry, but as well as all you have mentioned, I think the Templars need be specifically noted as well in his next speech. A group of Knights commissioned by the Vatican that began the Vatican bank and played a major role in the crusades that were then labeled heretics when they realized foul and inhumane plans of the Holy See.

Excelent post.


dude this stuff is nothin we can rite a whole book on how the catholic faith is a sham..

oh wait a book has alread been writen..


there are books which say islam is a sham........so will u believe em?


Dont we all just love those kind who come out of their holes and defend anyone who says anything against Islam. Thinking that they will be accepted by the white man some day.
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Re: The Pope insults our Prophet PBUH Sep 17, 2006
xibit wrote:
sniper420 wrote:
xibit wrote:
bear wrote:Sorry, but as well as all you have mentioned, I think the Templars need be specifically noted as well in his next speech. A group of Knights commissioned by the Vatican that began the Vatican bank and played a major role in the crusades that were then labeled heretics when they realized foul and inhumane plans of the Holy See.

Excelent post.


dude this stuff is nothin we can rite a whole book on how the catholic faith is a sham..

oh wait a book has alread been writen..


there are books which say islam is a sham........so will u believe em?



Dont we all just love those kind who come out of their holes and defend anyone who says anything against Islam. Thinking that they will be accepted by the white man some day.


I am while man and I dontlive in a hole .......my eel goes there sometimes though! :lol:

take it easy .....xbit
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Sep 17, 2006
Hey folks.. u know what. this is what religions bring us. Have faith in God dont die for religion.
Y are people so blind.. to ask such stupid questions and make such stupid speaches. We all know that all the major religions today are just religions of hypocrisy... and please I urge everyone to break the cells that religious teachings have taught you, the way of living has taught you. and identify humanity as the superset. We are all human beings first, only then comes any other difference.

"Religion is not in doctrines, in dogmas, nor in intellectual argumentation; it is being and becoming, it is realisation"

"The mainspring of the strength of every race lies in its spirituality, and the death of that race begins the day that spirituality wanes and materialism gains ground."

"Religion, as a science, as a study, is the greatest and healthiest exercise that the human mind can have. This pursuit of the Infinite, this struggle to grasp the Infinite, this effort to get beyond the limitations of the senses - out of matter, as it were - and to evolve the spiritual man-this striving day and night to make the Infinite one with our being-this struggle itself is the grandest and most glorious that man can make. "

"All narrow, limited, fighting ideas of religion have to go. All sect ideas and tribal or national ideas of religion must be given up. Personal idea of God or the Impersonal, the Infinite, Moral Law, or the Ideal Man-these all have to come under the definition of religion. When religions have thus broadened, their power for GOOD will have increased a hundredfold"

- Swami Vivekananda.
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Sep 17, 2006
did anybody notice that everytime we go into a topic, religion is suddenly that subject ;)

i know this thread is for religion but....
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Sep 17, 2006
very true bleakus.. thats the sad part.. people have become so blind coz of religion .. to such a level that even a discussion, a healthy discussion and debate is not possible in todays world... it ends in furious argument. as people who are blunt believers of what is written in the texts and who cant see beyond the written material believe that they are ready to wage a war if anyone even discusses and debates against their religion. I see more and more people turning into radical views.
how sad.... The prophets( whom i personally see as men of noble thoughts,humble and un biased actions and immortal ideologies but mere mortal souls) would be ashamed to see the world today. The world of people who are worst than barbarians in the name of protecting the religions and protecting civilizations.. and raging to wage war on a spark.
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Sep 17, 2006
^^ oooooo the flower power

if u r still stuck in the 70's please move on its 2006 luci boy.
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Sep 17, 2006
xibit wrote:^^ oooooo the flower power

if u r still stuck in the 70's please move on its 2006 luci boy.


whats wrong with the 70's? although i wasnt born at these times ;)
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Sep 17, 2006
xibit wrote:^^ oooooo the flower power

if u r still stuck in the 70's please move on its 2006 luci boy.


hahahahah
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Sep 17, 2006
The world would be a safer and more peaceful place without any religion at all. Atheism and Humanism are the way to go. :D
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Sep 17, 2006
kanelli wrote:The world would be a safer and more peaceful place without any religion at all. Atheism and Humanism are the way to go. :D


i dont think so........ world wars didnt have anything to do with religion.
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Sep 17, 2006
There have been many other conflicts in this world besides WW1 and WW2.
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Sep 17, 2006
kanelli wrote:There have been many other conflicts in this world besides WW1 and WW2.


which proves World will NOT b better without religion man will ALWAYS have something to fightfor resources, ideas , politics and otehr crap
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Sep 17, 2006
Oh man, discussing with you is like banging my head against a wall. :lol:
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Sep 17, 2006
kanelli wrote:Oh man, discussing with you is like banging my head against a wall. :lol:

say u lack logic....
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Sep 17, 2006
xibit wrote:^^ oooooo the flower power

if u r still stuck in the 70's please move on its 2006 luci boy.


I dont know.. what u mean by that statement.
so where are u stuck ...in between 570-632..??? to m y knowledge Teachings of religions are much older than 1970's. Gotta move on mate. I aint stuck in. Have the courage to think beyond and above whats just written. Application and interpretation of the knowledge makes one a genius or a moron...not the knowledge by itself.
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Sep 17, 2006
sniper420 wrote:
kanelli wrote:Oh man, discussing with you is like banging my head against a wall. :lol:

say u lack logic....


Well, I'll leave that for the other people reading this thread to decide. :lol:
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Sep 17, 2006
sniper420 wrote:
kanelli wrote:The world would be a safer and more peaceful place without any religion at all. Atheism and Humanism are the way to go. :D


i dont think so........ world wars didnt have anything to do with religion.

While not all the belligerency has been religion based, historically more people have been killed because of religion than any other reason. In addition, most current intolerance is also due to religious beliefs.

The pope, with his statement, added fuel to the fire, he didn't light the spark.
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Sep 17, 2006
sniper420 wrote:
kanelli wrote:The world would be a safer and more peaceful place without any religion at all. Atheism and Humanism are the way to go. :D


i dont think so........ world wars didnt have anything to do with religion.

Culture, Race, Law, and religion have always been factors in causing wars.
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Sep 17, 2006
mraph33 wrote:
sniper420 wrote:
kanelli wrote:The world would be a safer and more peaceful place without any religion at all. Atheism and Humanism are the way to go. :D


i dont think so........ world wars didnt have anything to do with religion.

While not all the belligerency has been religion based, historically more people have been killed because of religion than any other reason. In addition, most current intolerance is also due to religious beliefs.

The pope, with his statement, added fuel to the fire, he didn't light the spark.


correction belligerrency existed cos west need more resources for their economy and east as usual wants to unite under the banner of religion to prevent this
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Sep 17, 2006
sniper420 wrote:
mraph33 wrote:
sniper420 wrote:
kanelli wrote:The world would be a safer and more peaceful place without any religion at all. Atheism and Humanism are the way to go. :D


i dont think so........ world wars didnt have anything to do with religion.

While not all the belligerency has been religion based, historically more people have been killed because of religion than any other reason. In addition, most current intolerance is also due to religious beliefs.

The pope, with his statement, added fuel to the fire, he didn't light the spark.


correction belligerrency existed cos west need more resources for their economy and east as usual wants to unite under the banner of religion to prevent this

I was speaking historically, not specifically about what is happening now. You don't have to go far back - look at what happened in Yugoslavia, Somalia, Nigeria, India, Northern Ireland. All because of religion. Has nothing to do with east/west.
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Sep 17, 2006
sniper420 wrote:
kanelli wrote:The world would be a safer and more peaceful place without any religion at all. Atheism and Humanism are the way to go. :D


i dont think so........ world wars didnt have anything to do with religion.


Are u forgetting something Sniper..?
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Sep 17, 2006
St.Lucifer wrote:
sniper420 wrote:
kanelli wrote:The world would be a safer and more peaceful place without any religion at all. Atheism and Humanism are the way to go. :D


i dont think so........ world wars didnt have anything to do with religion.


Are u forgetting something Sniper..?


it's easy to say humanism will save the world when we know it doesnt exist and will not ......there shall always b something we will fight for unless some other species comes in and invades earth.....as log as there is 6 billion + human pop and human beings dominant species........there shall always b killin
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Sep 17, 2006
sniper420 wrote:
St.Lucifer wrote:
sniper420 wrote:
kanelli wrote:The world would be a safer and more peaceful place without any religion at all. Atheism and Humanism are the way to go. :D


i dont think so........ world wars didnt have anything to do with religion.


Are u forgetting something Sniper..?


it's easy to say humanism will save the world when we know it doesnt exist and will not ......there shall always b something we will fight for unless some other species comes in and invades earth.....as log as there is 6 billion + human pop and human beings dominant species........there shall always b killin

I was only wondering abt the "Final Solution of the Jewish question" from World war.

and ok yes it is rational that there'll b killings and there will b jealousy but world is not all that bad a place. see here we are who are just normal human beings with no power to control. when we can think about the humanism and treating everyone eqaul and bring the faith in the world back , think about people in power doing the same.

Its just a question of, would people with power do it or people who have the great human vision get into power or the last option would it be the end of many civilizations.

I love this from Einstien when he was asked to out his thoughts on world war 3 's possibilities and what kinda wepons he thought would be used.. he said
I dont know what weapons would b used for world war 3, but i certainly know that in world war would be fought with sticks and stones .
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Sep 17, 2006
St.Lucifer wrote:
sniper420 wrote:
St.Lucifer wrote:
sniper420 wrote:
kanelli wrote:The world would be a safer and more peaceful place without any religion at all. Atheism and Humanism are the way to go. :D


i dont think so........ world wars didnt have anything to do with religion.


Are u forgetting something Sniper..?


it's easy to say humanism will save the world when we know it doesnt exist and will not ......there shall always b something we will fight for unless some other species comes in and invades earth.....as log as there is 6 billion + human pop and human beings dominant species........there shall always b killin

I was only wondering abt the "Final Solution of the Jewish question" from World war.

and ok yes it is rational that there'll b killings and there will b jealousy but world is not all that bad a place. see here we are who are just normal human beings with no power to control. when we can think about the humanism and treating everyone eqaul and bring the faith in the world back , think about people in power doing the same.

Its just a question of, would people with power do it or people who have the great human vision get into power or the last option would it be the end of many civilizations.

I love this from Einstien when he was asked to out his thoughts on world war 3 's possibilities and what kinda wepons he thought would be used.. he said
I dont know what weapons would b used for world war 3, but i certainly know that in world war would be fought with sticks and stones .


i loe albert yes I heard about the quote infact it hangs in my room
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