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http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/09/16/pope.islam/index.html

In his speech, the pope quoted 14th-century Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleologus who said: "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

This is the second time something like this has happened before Ramadan. (Last year they published the cartoons)

I wonder why doesn't he mention the glorious 'crusade' in the name of the cross, or the spanish inquisition that tortured muslims until they converted to Christianity, or the millions of women the church killed claming them to be witches.

If not that, maybe he should give a lecture on how blacks, by the decree of God, were inferiors and designed to be the slave of the white man.

In the beginning it seems as if this irrational and brainless statement has been given by bush, but when it's coming from an educated man of religion, it's distressing.

The guy has no idea about what he's talking about and is adding fuel to the fire.I'm not saying no muslim has done anything bad, but to insult Prophet Muhammed PBUH is crossing the limits

And in the end what can we expect form an ex - nazi turned pope.

not justifying anything but he did issue an apology

Xibit,

Ready to nominate you for Nobel prize, please send me the category you would like me to vote you in...

Concord wrote:Xibit,

Ready to nominate you for Nobel prize, please send me the category you would like me to vote you in...

"And in the end what can we expect form an ex - nazi turned pope."


That was not a very nice remark, the man is only human and a good Christian.

I've read the full speech of the pope, as issued by the vatican (link on BBC news website).

It seems incredible that he chose this particular quote for the speech. It was the only quote in the speech and was extremely ill advised. The quote illustrates the bias of the Byzantine emperor and is just untrue (that the Prophet Muhammad, pbuh, taught that Islam should be spread by the sword and the only new things he taught were evil).

I've also read the apology, and it's not a complete apology, nor does it really answer why he used the quote that he must have known would be inflamatory.

I'm disapointed and dismayed that he is not following in the footsteps of his predecessor who acknowledged that we share the same God.

(I personally wouldn't have brought up the fact that he was a nazi during the war as I do not think it has relevance to his utterances today.)

Cheers,
Shafique

to err is human

to forgive is divine

A friend of mine has written to a number of newspapers in the UAE with the following:


Dear Sir/Madam



With reference to the comments made by the Pope in his recent speech about Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) and Islamic teachings I would like to state the following.



Given the current international climate and the very recent controversies, such comments only serve one purpose that is to add fuel to the fire. Pope's speeches are prepared in advance and are well thought out, so one cannot assume that the impact of such comments was not known to the Vatican



In the current climate it was more than ever needed to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ and take such steps and make such statements which create peace and harmony and not generate discord among the society and religions. This latest act will only serve to harden the views on both sides.



What the Pope should have said is that there are some Muslim organisations who are spreading a message of hatred and that they should turn back to the fundamental message of Islam and the Practice of their Prophet. The effect of such a statement would have been miraculously different and it would have been appreciated by all Muslims. This is the time more than ever to show courtesy to each other. Islam has shown great respect to Jesus Christ and in fact to leaders of all religions. The name of Jesus Christ and Mary is mentioned more number of times in Quran than the name of Prophet Mohammad himself (PBUH) and always with respect. It is part of every Muslim's faith to believe in the truthfulness of all prophets of other religions.



The question of Prophet Mohammad(PBUH) or Islam teaching its followers to spread its message with sword is so foreign to the teachings of Islam and against the facts and annals of history that one wonders how can anyone come to such a conclusion? There is not a single verse or a jot in Quran which teaches such a thing. On the contrary, Quran is replete with verses which indicate that there is no compulsion in matters of religion and its a matter of each person's free will to choose and decide. For example "Anyone who wishes may believe and anyone who wishes may disbelieve." (Holy Quran 18:30). One should not judge the message of Islam by the actions of those few who are fighting political wars but using religion to gain sympathy of masses. Just like teachings of Christianity and Jesus Christ should not be judged by actions of those Christians, for example, who carried out heinous acts during inquisition.



The life of Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) is preserved like an open book. Even a cursory glance would show the fallacy of this view that he instructed his followers to spread the religion by sword. There is not a single instance in his life to this effect. How can wars fought in defence and survival be termed as spreading of religion by sword?



Many a Christians and other scholars after studying history arrived at this view. For example Sir William Muir, the well known orientalist states in his famous book "Life of Mohomet" that from among the thousands of Muslims in the city of Madinah, not one had been made to accept Islam by Force. The fall of Mecca would have been an ideal occasion for converting the masses to Islam but highly respected British historian Stanley Lane Poole writes in introduction to Higgins' Apology for Mohammad "But what is this? Is there no blood in the streets? Where are the bodies of the thousands that have been butchered? Facts are hard things; and it is a fact that the day of Muhammad's greatest triumph over his enemies was also the day of his grandest victory over himself. He freely forgave the Kureysh all the years of sorrow and cruel scorn they had inflicted on him; he gave an amnesty to the whole population of Makkah. Four criminals whom justice condemned, made up Muhammad's proscription list; no house was robbed, no woman insulted. It was thus that Muhammad entered again his native city. Through all the annals of conquest, there is no triumphant entry like unto this one".

I rest my case.

"HEY, THE LESSER GREATER SATAN QUOTED A BYZANTIUM EMPEROR!"
"LETS KILL HIM! GOD BE PRAISED!!"

"umm, guys you know, we have such a bad repuation for violence over silly things already, don't you think we should maybe..."

"AND KILL HIM TOO! ARGH!!"

this pope or that pope , all the same , may all homophobes rot in hell .
and why exactly does it matter what people from a different religion than ours say about muhammed(pbuh) ?i really don't get it.

shafique wrote:(I personally wouldn't have brought up the fact that he was a nazi during the war as I do not think it has relevance to his utterances today.)

And where did you get that he "was a Nazi". As you know at his age and time it was compulsory to join the Nazi youth, etc. So noble of you not to bring it up

Concord wrote:Xibit,

Ready to nominate you for Nobel prize, please send me the category you would like me to vote you in...

plz keep ur lame sarcasm to ur self and get to the point.

fayz wrote:not justifying anything but he did issue an apology

ROME (Reuters) - Pope Benedict told Muslims on Saturday he was sorry they had found his speech on Islam offensive, expressing his respect for their faith and hoping they would understand the "true sense" of his words.

Can any one here may be concord please explain me the so called "true sense" in insulting the Prophet PBUH.

I wonder why the pope hasnt aplogised to Muslims in person surely, if he didn't mean it, he should.

why doesn’t he?

mel gibson made anti sematic remarks and he was sent to 6 months for alcohol rehab. even though after apologizing twice in person and in public.

pope makes anti muslim remarks and gets off the hook by issuing an apology by the vatican spokes man ..... i think not.

I usually choose to ignore the anti islam rant by the west but unfortunately when the Head of the Catholic Church says something it can not be overlooked.

The Ishmaelite says the Pope is wrong. They deny Papal Infallibility.

Their heresy is an insult to Catholics everywhere.

xibit wrote:

fayz wrote:not justifying anything but he did issue an apology

I wonder why the pope hasnt aplogised to Muslims in person surely, if he didn't mean it, he should.

why doesn’t he?

the Head of the Catholic Church says something it can not be overlooked.

I'm I missing something. You just quoted Fayz who stated the pope apologized but in your post you ask why the pope doesn't I must admit my reading comprehension ain't the best but...

Concord wrote:

shafique wrote:(I personally wouldn't have brought up the fact that he was a nazi during the war as I do not think it has relevance to his utterances today.)

And where did you get that he "was a Nazi". As you know at his age and time it was compulsory to join the Nazi youth, etc. So noble of you not to bring it up

xbit called the Pope a nazi - that is what I was referring to. For interests of clarity, the Pope has said that he joined the Hilter Youth organisation only when it became mandatory in 1941 when he was 14. Critics have pointed out that it actually became mandatory in 1936 and reinforced in 1939, and Hitler Youth membership took place from the age of 10.

As I said though, I don't think his membership of Hitler Youth has anything to do with the choice of quotation which besmirches the religion and the founder of the religion. If someone had done the research and did not want to perpetuate the fallacy of Islam being spread by the sword, then that person would not choose the quotation chosen. This is my opinion after having read the whole speech and considering the context of quotation.

The apology falls short of acknowledging the fallacies in the quotation.

Cheers,
Shafique

What I often find amuzing (well, always actually) is how people critize the media but use it as a platform for rants, etc. The media is only "baised" when it suits a particular purpose - I suppose.

why did he attack the prophet muhammad anyway?

xibit wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/09/16/pope.islam/index.html

In his speech, the pope quoted 14th-century Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleologus who said: "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

This is the second time something like this has happened before Ramadan. (Last year they published the cartoons)

I wonder why doesn't he mention the glorious 'crusade' in the name of the cross, or the spanish inquisition that tortured muslims until they converted to Christianity, or the millions of women the church killed claming them to be witches.

If not that, maybe he should give a lecture on how blacks, by the decree of God, were inferiors and designed to be the slave of the white man.

In the beginning it seems as if this irrational and brainless statement has been given by bush, but when it's coming from an educated man of religion, it's distressing.

The guy has no idea about what he's talking about and is adding fuel to the fire.I'm not saying no muslim has done anything bad, but to insult Prophet Muhammed PBUH is crossing the limits

And in the end what can we expect form an ex - nazi turned pope.

Sorry, but as well as all you have mentioned, I think the Templars need be specifically noted as well in his next speech. A group of Knights commissioned by the Vatican that began the Vatican bank and played a major role in the crusades that were then labeled heretics when they realized foul and inhumane plans of the Holy See.

Excelent post.

THe Pope should concentrate on addressing child molestation..especially the molestation of little boys by priest whom the Pope has appointed instead of accussing our beloved prophet MOhammed(pbuh) whom he can never measure up to as spreading the Islam by the Sword..while hyprocritely forgetting how the Pope thousand years ago sanctioned bloodshed against MUslims and Jews in Jerusalam, the inquisition of Muslims and Jews again in Spain...The murder of Native Indians 40+ million who refused to convert Christainty in Southern America, Pope watched and blessed Hitlers extrimination of Jews 60 years ago...know the same Pope is accussing the prophet MOhammed(pbuh) of using violence to spread his message...The Pope is hyprocrite who needs to read the history of Christianty...especially Catholism before he opens his mouth against Gods last messenger.

whatever Pope was ignorant and had right to preach.........

why is there is unty in islamic world everytime some moron speaks up crap at the same time no unity to criticize shias and sunnis chopping each other?

sniper420 wrote:whatever Pope was ignorant and had right to preach.........

why is there is unty in islamic world everytime some moron speaks up crap at the same time no unity to criticize shias and sunnis chopping each other?

You are absolutely...It is disgraceful to see bunch of dump muslims in Pakistan, India and all places Iraq take to the street whenever a fool insultes the Prophet(pbuh), but never protest the killing of muslims in Darfur, Kashmire, Iraq and few months ago Lebanon/Palastine...These muslims disgrace the prophet(pbuh) more than the Kafirs who insulted the prophet(pbuh)...They remember that the Prophet Mohammed(pbuh) faced more than insultes in his life time and he never acted and would have never condoned the way some of these muslims have acted.

xibit wrote:[
And in the end what can we expect form an ex - nazi turned pope.

i dont know you.
And i dont really like you .

sniper420 wrote:whatever Pope was ignorant and had right to preach.........

why is there is unty in islamic world everytime some moron speaks up crap at the same time no unity to criticize shias and sunnis chopping each other?

well said sniper

sniper420 wrote:whatever Pope was ignorant and had right to preach.........

why is there is unty in islamic world everytime some moron speaks up crap at the same time no unity to criticize shias and sunnis chopping each other?

because they are 2 different issues dude? the issue has been there for years, its pretty complex

Bleakus wrote:

sniper420 wrote:whatever Pope was ignorant and had right to preach.........

why is there is unty in islamic world everytime some moron speaks up crap at the same time no unity to criticize shias and sunnis chopping each other?

because they are 2 different issues dude? the issue has been there for years, its pretty complex

right they are 2 diff issue.......but it shows how fro petty stupid crap muslim world unites other crap those ppl slumber.......

well i know Pope is Islamophobe cos he dismissed bishop who is of the expert in islam. crticizing religion at a sensitive time is liek me going to funeral and while delivering eulogy i say:

Mark once said John was a "moron" "dishonest" and "retard".... i quote twice these are not my words but Mark's words.....

So what do u expect? John's loved ones will kiss me? or think I am quoting mark cos I want them to beleive Mark as right that John was retard?

Similarly Popew quoted like a complete moron from an emperor who was enemy to muslims that time...do u think Saddam will ever praise Bush? Do u think Saddam's words are gospel truth?

I dont' care if I get flamed for this, I'm going to say it anyway! It was not the Pope's opinion, he was quoting from another text, rightly or wrongly. However the reaction from the Islamic world is once angain nothing more than ridiculous, with threats to kill the Pope, down with the Vatican etc etc etc.

Do you ever see Westerners or Christians reacting in such a way over fanatical Islamic 'clerics' calls for the killing and destruction of the western world - NO!!!!

Get over it!

Chocoholic wrote:Do you ever see Westerners or Christians reacting in such a way over fanatical Islamic 'clerics' calls for the killing and destruction of the western world - NO!!!!

Get over it!

I do as a matter of fact.

Chocoholic wrote:I dont' care if I get flamed for this, I'm going to say it anyway! It was not the Pope's opinion, he was quoting from another text, rightly or wrongly. However the reaction from the Islamic world is once angain nothing more than ridiculous, with threats to kill the Pope, down with the Vatican etc etc etc.

Do you ever see Westerners or Christians reacting in such a way over fanatical Islamic 'clerics' calls for the killing and destruction of the western world - NO!!!!

Get over it!

ofcourse I see.........I see in church ............ppl calling muslims orges and we have to "wipe" em off! Sure they dont go burning effgies but I DO see in churches and synagogues calling Muzzies inferior names.........

Choco as usual u r biased in ur speech.

Chocoholic wrote:I dont' care if I get flamed for this, I'm going to say it anyway! It was not the Pope's opinion, he was quoting from another text, rightly or wrongly. However the reaction from the Islamic world is once angain nothing more than ridiculous, with threats to kill the Pope, down with the Vatican etc etc etc.

Do you ever see Westerners or Christians reacting in such a way over fanatical Islamic 'clerics' calls for the killing and destruction of the western world - NO!!!!

Get over it!

what's the use of quoting from 600 yr old fart? Didnt he have any otehr book to read like how muslims jews christians lived in Spain(andulasia) for centuries and prove harmony can exist? He is stupid and moron who lives in palacial buildings and eats good food wears gucci glasses....i mean wtf?

if u read Les miserables .i loved the bishope who is simple and giving all his money to poor and needy.

recently 2 churches in nablus have been firebomed......same crap again

I find it a bit rich that the Pope would criticise Islam in relation to violence in light of the Christian church's history with violence. The Spanish Inquisition and Crusades are a huge black mark in their history...