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Opium production has soared in Afghanistan since the defeat of the Taliban, to the point where this year's harvest can produce more than one year's world-wide demand of heroin.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5308180.stm

With soldiers dying each day and the Government's authority seemingly confined to the area around the capital, the growing popularity of the Taliban etc things are looking bleak in the country.

What can the coalition troops do? Beats me - the British and Russians couldn't tame the country, now it appears the US led coalition is finding out that declaring victory in Afghanistan does not necessarily mean peace and prosperity for the people.

Cheers,
Shafique[/url]

If the Taliban is becoming popular, then everyone should pull out. Let the people live under the Taliban again. I'm sure the women especially like the idea of staying at home in their Burkhas, and the little girls can stop going to school. Also, the Taliban can continue to destroy cultural artifacts, and ban art, music, dance etc. The Afghan civilisation will flourish under that kind of regime. Good luck to them!

Edit: Yes, it will likely be a military failure. There is no point fighting to free people from a warped regime that they actually want. They'll just have to fight their own way out down the road and spill their own blood to do it.

It shows how bad things are that the people want the Taleban back!

The fears are that the opium sales are going to provide resources to terrorists - ironically making the world a much more un-safe place as a result of the defeat of the Taleban.

It appears that repressive religious nuts are better than money-grabbing corrupt politicians and war lords, the former have morals (however warped).

I supported the invasion of Afghanistan and over-throw of the Taliban. Given the consequences, I'm now not so sure it was the best thing for the world.

I just wonder whether if the folly of Iraq hadn't happened and more resources expended on Afghanistan to bolster the government and help the people - funnel aid to people, help farmers not grow opium etc etc - whether the situation would be as bad as it is now.

As I said, as bad as the Taliban were, the fact that the people are hankering after those days is an indictment of the failures of the government and it's backers.

Cheers,
Shafique

That's a good point Shafique, but I don't understand how you of all people could have supported the invasion of Afghanistan?

The few hundred terrorists that were in Afghanistan have now been replaced with twenty thousand terrorists. As a result of this war thousands of Afghans have been killed. The women characterize the current government as Taliban lyte, indeed the Taliban and their conservative ideology were never defeated. Their popularity has spread into neighboring Waziristan, and since their "ouster" the Taliban have taken up legitimate resistance that will further enmesh their popularity among the Afghan people.

With the escalating anarchy and chaos in Afghanistan, it will become poignantly clear that the occupation is not the friend of the Afghan people but their enemy.

PS: Im not a Muslim, I just see the hypocrisy in killing thousands of innocent people in an act of revenge just because a few chickens came home to roost.

We have lost our morality and in doing so lost the war...here are some more links to how the situation is in Afghanistan.

We Face Defeat In Afghanistan, Army Chiefs Warn Blair
http://paktribune.com/news/index.shtml?148742

More on the Taliban insurgency
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban_insurgency

These are the words of our lying neocon generals
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Feb2006 ... _4123.html

valkyrie - at the time of the invasion of Afghanistan my view was that an oppressive regime was being over-thrown. A regime that was suppressing the rights of it's population and doing it in the name of Islam.

This was the information that came to me via the media - and I still maintain this view of the Taliban.

However, since then I have learnt a few things - the Taliban weren't all bad (they were pretty bad) - but they were created and flourished because the alternatives were worse than what they had to offer.

I certainly agree that what has arisen is much worse and extremely 'disproportionate' (come to think of it, probably more disproportionate than the recent conflict in Lebanon - so the US support of Israel makes more sense in this light).

Knowing what I know now, my views at the time may have been different. But this would not have changed anything - we all thought at the time that the US would retalliate big time against 9/11 and on the 12th September 2001 all my American friends were saying that Afghanistan would be invaded - so there was no way to hold the US hands and wish to retaliate. There was an inevitability about Afghanistan.

Iraq is another question altogether.

Cheers,
Shafique

I really am surprised that Afghanistan and Iraq can't get their crap together. They have the ability to make the occupation obsolete, but the countries wallow in corruption and in-fighting. That can't all be blamed on the coalition. It drives me nuts!

In a completely different message, Iraqis and Afhgans are banned to enter UAE, fyi.

They are? On what grounds?

kanelli wrote:If the Taliban is becoming popular, then everyone should pull out. Let the people live under the Taliban again. I'm sure the women especially like the idea of staying at home in their Burkhas, and the little girls can stop going to school. Also, the Taliban can continue to destroy cultural artifacts, and ban art, music, dance etc. The Afghan civilisation will flourish under that kind of regime. Good luck to them!

Edit: Yes, it will likely be a military failure. There is no point fighting to free people from a warped regime that they actually want. They'll just have to fight their own way out down the road and spill their own blood to do it.

Hmm Kanelli
That sounds extremely sour. But the simple fact remains there is more likelyhood of peace in Afghanistan with the Taleiban than there is with the current warlords in power.

Most people in Stockholm(where i live) were against the war in Afghanistan. One of the reasons was that the Americans had planned to hand it over to pre-Taleiban warlords/druglords. Their actions had been known for years.

One of the most interesting things i read recently and will try to find and post are statistics that show most Violent Crimes, Rapes, Abductions of women and force into prostitution, indiscriminate killings, Opium production and all round lawlessness in Afghanistan was Pre and Post Taleiban.
People have never liked the Taleiban in Afghanistan outside Kandahar. But people found it a more workable choice, compared to the "Northern Alliance" - the choice of the US and UK who were infamous for some of the nastiest humans rights abuses ever reported in Afganistan.

So you have to put things into perspective. While many believed their govts about "Helping" these poor people, many didnt. And the reason why this will be a military failure is the failure to win hearts and minds.
You can not win hearts and minds by force.
You can not accuse the Afghans of not wanting a better future. They will refuse to cooperate with the criminals who had tortured them and their country for years after the Soviet withdrawal. Why if the US and UK wanted to help the people, win hearts and minds did they select these same people?

I am no supporter of the Taleiban. i believe in Human rights, which they seem to lack. However so do most elected goverments these days.
While i would hope for Afghanistan to start a clean slate, if the people want the return of the Taleiban to improve things again, that will be both a political and military disaster for the US and UK.

shafique wrote:valkyrie - at the time of the invasion of Afghanistan my view was that an oppressive regime was being over-thrown. A regime that was suppressing the rights of it's population and doing it in the name of Islam.

This was the information that came to me via the media - and I still maintain this view of the Taliban.

However, since then I have learnt a few things - the Taliban weren't all bad (they were pretty bad) -

Hi Shafique
I have many friends from London who shared that view also.

But i just looked at Saudi, no human rights, Women for years not being able to drive, no alchohol outside the palace of the monarchs ; -) all in the name of Islam.
I look at Pakistan - Honour Killings, blowing up religious sites, all in the name of Islam.
I look at Bangladesh - indiscriminate bombings in crowded areas, in the name of Islam.
i see it in Algeria
I see it in Morocco
i see it in Turkey
I see it in Indonesia
etc.

the list is endless. People define their own "Islam" for their own objectives it would appear. Yet the religion never condones any of these
activities.
Im not sure i would support war in any of these countries especially if these atrocities were highlighted by foreign goverments with their own interests.

The Taleiban were nasty - no doubt. But the domestic people endorsed this movement due to alternative discourse being worse. No one seemed bothered about how Afganistan got to where it was - the root causes.

I read your posted articles about the Taleiban. Very interesting.