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damn those pics are sick. there r sick ppl both in american and iraqi sides. during Gulf war, iraqis had done worst to kuwaitis there. either way it is ing.....

When USA army came to ((Freed)) Iraq from the (Dectator regime) and his soldires and leaders have been doing and practicing as same as wt was the (Dectator regime) doing, then I can say F*?*?*K both of them.

**May these yanks and brits burn in hell for their sins against humanity**

its really very sad.................but what's the reason behind it?????

Think abt it

arniegang wrote:Liban i would totally agree with you how ing and disgraceful those pictures are.

But i have to also agree with K. You must remember Liban the same thinng happen to many Kuwait women when Saddams troops invaded Kuwait.

Like K, i am not saying any of it is "right", its just that this sort of digusting behaviour it isn't exclusive to the American Army.

Actually these were lies and I'm surprised (well, not really) that you still don't know that the atrocity claims of Kuwait and the US against Iraq were false! It's a well known fact, it is not secret! Though as usual many Americans (and I guess some Brits) still cling to those false rumors for lack of information and/or lack of interest. The investigative reporting program 60 Minutes did an excellent expose on these false US/Kuwaiti claims years ago. It exposed false testimonies of Kuwaiti officials who admitted that they had lied. Past US administration people also admitted to lying, and some of them even came out with their books in which they cleared things up. And check out Hill Knowlton - the US and Kuwait used the services of this public relations firm to spin the completely false reports of Iraqi atrocities in Kuwait.

kanelli wrote:As far as I know, there was no confirmation of rape in any of the reports of female soldier captives. Either they were unconscious and don't remember, and/or the doctors say there was no evidence of rape.

There are far fewer female soldiers or kidnap victims in Iraq to be s.e.x.ually abused, so I don't think that anyone should conclude that it wouldn't happen if there were more men exposed to more opportunity. Men are men after all.

I think that everyone has agreed that rape and torture is wrong, no matter who does it.

I'd also like to point out that it wasn't just the US who was supporting Iraq and Saddam for strategic purposes. So pointing the finger solely at the US as being indirectly responsible for atrocities commited by the Baath party is not really fair. There are so many excuses given when the simple fact is that Saddam Hussein was a monster who set up his own kind of rule that was mainly responsible for the atrocities. Iraqis raped and tortured their own people and the US was not telling them to do it, it was Saddam and the Baath party.

No one is denying the fact that Saddam was a monster, that isn't the point. The point is that the US did support him for many years, atrocities and all, until he rebelled and wanted to do things his own way. Saddam was not going to be the puppet with oil that the KSA monarchy was and is...so he had to be eliminated. The truly ing thing is how self-righteous the US admin paints itself to be. That they insult our intelligence to such a degree and tell us that they're fighting for Iraqi freedom is maddening. That they're still there in a human chaos that they've helped create, is criminal.

You're right, the US was not alone in supporting Saddam's regime in one way or another. European companies secretly dealt with Saddam to benefit from oil schemes. Some US companies also dealt with Iraq through proxies. But the US was the most involved, the country who had planned an Iraqi invasion years ago - excuse or not - the one that would benefit more from Iraqi oil and the one that has been more hypocritical in stating their reasons for this war than any other country. I would much rather hear GWB state that his country is in Iraq for control of its oil than hear him state that they're there for democracy's sake. Unless some of you actually enjoyed being lied to, I don't see why you get all worked up about these types of criticisms...

One more thing, these US military incidents are NOT rare. If you've been reading Amnesty International documents and keeping up with the news, you will surely know that these types of abuses are indeed routine.

stop whinging you sandgiggers would be still living in the trees if it were not for the AMERICANS/ENGLISH and i have photos of R8ghead living in a tree in the uae

You must be misinformed, this is the desert, we ain't got no trees Mr & Mrs Idiot was it

Living in trees - surely you're thinking of white people. Tarzan and Swiss Family Robinson all lived in trees

shafique wrote:Living in trees - surely you're thinking of white people. Tarzan and Swiss Family Robinson all lived in trees

Very True..... But they were not living in cardboard boxs up in the trees like you ppl.

People living in cardboard boxes...like on the American skid rows?

sage & onion wrote:You must be misinformed, this is the desert, we ain't got no trees Mr & Mrs Idiot was it

.
.

Sorry to correct you but there are a few trees in the desert and this one was in "Baraimi" by the road side with his bicycle at the base of the tree.( until one night somebody stole the bicycle )

i am discusted ,these pictures just ruined my day .. i think rape is the ugliest crime ever ... these army soldiers are pigs they are not even humanbeings... i am ed with humanity

Mr & Mrs Inquirer wrote:

shafique wrote:Living in trees - surely you're thinking of white people. Tarzan and Swiss Family Robinson all lived in trees

Very True..... But they were not living in cardboard boxs up in the trees like you ppl.

and u stupid ,why dont u find a wall and bang ur head on it till u drop dead and shut the hell up

Corcovado wrote:

Mr & Mrs Inquirer wrote:

shafique wrote:Living in trees - surely you're thinking of white people. Tarzan and Swiss Family Robinson all lived in trees

Very True..... But they were not living in cardboard boxs up in the trees like you ppl.

and u stupid ,why dont u find a wall and bang ur head on it till u drop dead and shut the hell up

is this a new Arrab thing a new type of La lapidation ( u find a wall and bang ur head on it till u drop dead ):D

I had forgotten that Arab and Muslim men never rape women. It is only the Evil West that does it.

Also, I had forgotten that only companies in the Evil West had done business with Saddam - none of the Arab or Muslim countries and their companies ever dealt with Saddam. I'm sure I saw their protests about him and how they stood together by ending diplomatic and business ties with him during all of those years.

Believe me, no entity is more to blame for rape, torture, and murder through the history of Iraq than the Evil West. Everyone else can be absolved from responsibility. After all, the Evil West made them do it.

(Please read with dripping sarcastic tone.)

It would actually be informative to look at the relative rates of crimes against women by countries.

The UK and US, for example, have charities working towards highlighting the plight of crimes against women and say that perhaps the real number of crimes is 2 or 3 times those that are reported.

Per-capita, there are more se>< crimes in the 'evil west', as Kanelli puts it, than in Arab and Muslim states. Take into Paedophillia and the situation is much worse for 'West vs East' comparisons.

Women should be free and shouldn't be oppressed - and in the most populous Muslim countries around the world there seems to be the right balance between women's rights and non-objectification of women. I am thinking of the biggest muslim country in the world - Indonesia, and the other big countries such as Malaysia and even Iran (yes Iran) - where women form an integral part of all roles in society from Government to Education to Healthcare, and where interestingly there is less se>< against women in these countries when compared with the UK, US and Europe.

Please let us not confuse the minority 'muslim countries' which are more reflections of cultural misogyny which Islam denouces with the majority of Muslim nations who afford their women more security than is found in the 'Evil West'.

Kanelli - there is also a quote that says 'sarcasm is the lowest form of wit' - but I don't subscribe to this, given my quote about Tarzan being a white man!

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:It would actually be informative to look at the relative rates of crimes against women by countries.

The UK and US, for example, have charities working towards highlighting the plight of crimes against women and say that perhaps the real number of crimes is 2 or 3 times those that are reported.

Per-capita, there are more se>< crimes in the 'evil west', as Kanelli puts it, than in Arab and Muslim states. Take into Paedophillia and the situation is much worse for 'West vs East' comparisons.

I don't know but I get the feeling that in the "evil-west" women would feel more free to report spousal abuse, physical abuse, date rape, etc. than in other countries were men have more rights than women (whether or not the religion says otherwise - I am refering to the practical and actual).

In any event, I would be interested in the "per-capita" statistics you refer to [hopefully not done by some biased media or research outlet from the 'evil-west" - did someone mentioned "sarcasm"? good thing I don't know how to spell it - I think this qualifies as double sarcasm (even lower!)]

Concord - there are issues with abuse against women around the world that transcend religion. Some of the worst cases of spousal abuse are actually found in pacific island communities.

If you do a Google search on crimes against women, rape etc you will find UN and WHO reports which document these crimes.

Ironically, women have been given rights in Islam 1500 years ago that weren't given to western women until last century - the right to own property, bear witness and divorce for example.

Se>< crimes are a different category - and looking narrowly at rape against women and paedophillia, I would contend you are safer as a woman or child in Indonesia, Iran or Malaysia (for example) than you are in the UK or US or even Sweden. Safer statistically I mean - based on my gut feeling only, but easily confirmed or disproved by looking at rates of rape and paedophillia.

I would think that a lady in Indonesia has as much freedom to do what she wants as a lady in Sweden, and has more safety.

Also, just based on what I've read (but not researched) the impression I have is Paedophillia is a peculiar 'evil-west' crime - again from a statistical point of view.

Cheers,
Shafique

I respect your opinion... I just thought you had statistics and had considered that in certain countries women may be relunctant to report such abuse than in the "evil-west".

Concord, I have only read the reports of the US and USA, not of Indonesia etc. In the UK the reports say that the majority of rapes are not reported.

Violence against women is increasing in both the US and UK.

The anecdotal evidence I have of muslim countries is that there is less rape of women.

Paedophillia is a heinous se>< crime and thus far a problem concentrated in the west.

Note that this thread is about rape of Iraqi women by the invading and occupying forces and my comments come after a post questioning (albeit sarcastically) whether rape occurs in Arab/Muslim countries.

Rapes and other crimes against women are more prevalent in the countries represented by the alleged rapists of this thread.

Cheers,
Shafique

Nothing more from me

CENTENNIAL, Colorado (AP) -- A man convicted of sexually assaulting an Indonesian housekeeper and keeping her virtually as a slave was sentenced Thursday to 27 years to life in prison.

Homaidan Al-Turki, 37, denied the charges and blamed anti-Muslim prejudice for the case against him. He said prosecutors persuaded the housekeeper to accuse him after they failed to build a case that he was a terrorist.

Al-Turki, a citizen of Saudi Arabia who lived in the Denver suburb of Aurora, was convicted of unlawful sexual contact by use of force, theft and extortion, all felonies, and misdemeanor counts of false imprisonment and conspiracy to commit false imprisonment.

BAD, BAD R*GHEAD

Sarcasm might likely be the lowest form of wit, but sometimes it is most appropriate - especially when dealing with cases of hypocrisy.

Every woman from every country all over the world is at risk from rape because men think they are entitled to do it. It doesn't matter what nationality or what religion they are - some men rape. As for women's rights - I'd take living in the Evil West and having as much equality as I do with men there over living anywhere else in the world under any other culture or religious practices that don't allow me the same rights and freedoms. I doesn't matter who offered some rights for women first - it matters who has the rights now. The Evil West is far more advanced in that regard.

kanelli wrote:Sarcasm might likely be the lowest form of wit, but sometimes it is most appropriate - especially when dealing with cases of hypocrisy.

Every woman from every country all over the world is at risk from rape because men think they are entitled to do it. It doesn't matter what nationality or what religion they are - some men rape. As for women's rights - I'd take living in the Evil West and having as much equality as I do with men there over living anywhere else in the world under any other culture or religious practices that don't allow me the same rights and freedoms. I doesn't matter who offered some rights for women first - it matters who has the rights now. The Evil West is far more advanced in that regard.

K, Shafique tried, unsuccessfully, not to address the issue (freedom of women in the "evil west" to report such crimes and for the perpetrators to pay a price for it). My bet is that repeating it won't make a difference

Well, there is also the fact that in some Islamic countries/states you can be beheaded for raping a woman - a deterrent not used in the Evil West. I wouldn't really call beheading or stoning people very civilised (but neither is the electric chair for that matter...)

Rape rates might be lower if you keep men and women segregated and cover the women up from head to toe, but then again - from my perspective, I enjoy being friends with men and dressing as I please. For me to avoid rape, I don't walk in bad areas alone at night, don't get into cars with strangers, don't get drunk and fool around with drunk men while on dates. So, I'd take equality and friendship with the majority of men who are decent men, over segregation and limitations on my rights in order to protect me from what is only a small percentage of men who rape.

When it comes to war, it has been seen throughout history that armies have raped and pillaged. You train people to kill, put them in stressful conditions, and then wonder why atrocities are commited from time to time? Again, that is not an "American" phenomenon, it is a worldwide phenomenon throughout history in every conflict.

Shaf, I'd be interested to see stats that might prove that pedophilia is more prevalent in the US or UK than anywhere else. I suspect that pedophilia also goes on in other cultures as well, but sexual abuse of children likely happens within families and isn't talked about. It would be interesting to know why you suppose that people living in the Western hemisphere might be more "predisposed" to pedophilia. What exactly causes this problem? Would Islam cure them?

I watched one documentary on honour killings where a woman was raped by her brother, so then her father and brother sawed her head off to stop her from shaming the family. It seems it was her fault for being raped, and the son was the only one worth protecting. According to the sister who had to step over the bloody body in the morning, the father said that she should have resisted being raped and the son could only have done it if she had let him. Lovely

Kanelli- stats on paedophillia and rape are available on the web.

Honour killings are a problem in Pakistan etc. Domestic violence is an issue in many countries too. I read that

My point is that we should check to see in which countries/cultures are there more crimes against women.

A good site to start from is :

http://www.endabuse.org/resources/facts/

Another good report is:
http://www.un.org/rights/dpi1772e.htm[url]

This contains the amazing stat that in the US a woman is raped every 6 minutes. It also documents abuses against women in other countries.

Paedophillia being a 'white man's disease' is something I've read. The sex tourism for young boys and girls in places like Sri Lanka and South America and Phillipines is primarily by white men according to the reports.

The child abuse by Catholic priests around the world was also confined to anglo-saxons from what I have read.

Cheers,
Shafique[/url]

shafique wrote:Kanelli- stats on paedophillia and rape are available on the web.

Honour killings are a problem in Pakistan etc. Domestic violence is an issue in many countries too. I read that

My point is that we should check to see in which countries/cultures are there more crimes against women.

A good site to start from is :

http://www.endabuse.org/resources/facts/

Another good report is:
http://www.un.org/rights/dpi1772e.htm[url]

This contains the amazing stat that in the US a woman is raped every 6 minutes. It also documents abuses against women in other countries.

Paedophillia being a 'white man's disease' is something I've read. The fun tourism for young boys and girls in places like Sri Lanka and South America and Phillipines is primarily by white men according to the reports.

The child abuse by Catholic priests around the world was also confined to anglo-saxons from what I have read.

Cheers,
Shafique[/url]

Shafique, hate to say it but you are losing credibiility, as far as I am concerned anyway, with the above quote of yours. Not your best work I suppose.

You have totally missed and ignored my point that while someone may have quoted statistics about the ""evil-west" regarding se.x abuse of women, these statistics exists because women are not afraid to report them. For example, you quote the statistic that a woman is raped every six minutes in the USA and make reference to the UN report which thanks to your invitation I have read.

Apparently you conveniently did not read or did not recall the following quote from the same report:

"In the Middle East and Persian Gulf region, there are an estimated 1.2 million women, mainly Asians, who are employed as domestic servants. According to the independent human rights group Middle East Watch, female migrant workers in Kuwait often suffer beatings and sexual assaults at the hands of their employers.

The police are often of little help. In many cases, women who report being raped by their employers are sent back to the employer -- or are even assaulted at the police station.

Working conditions are often appalling, and employers prevent women from escaping by seizing their passports or identity papers."

Unless and until every woman is not affraid to report s.ex crimes, physical abuse, etc. any comparison to statistics in the 'evil-west" are meaningles. Of course it does not mean that the problem does not exist in the "evil-west" but one can't leap to the conclusion that it does not exist elsewhere (or rather "one should not leap..").

With respect the other report that you invited us to read I note the following quote:

"Estimates range from 960,000 incidents of violence against a current or former spouse, boyfriend, or girlfriend per year to three million women who are physically abused by their husband or boyfriend per year.

Around the world, at least one in every three women has been beaten, coerced into sex or otherwise abused during her lifetime.Nearly one-third of American women (31 percent) report being physically or sexually abused by a husband or boyfriend at some point in their lives, according to a 1998 Commonwealth Fund survey.

Nearly 25 percent of American women report being raped and/or physically assaulted by a current or former spouse, cohabiting partner, or date at some time in their lifetime, according to the National Violence Against Women Survey, conducted from November 1995 to May 1996"

Once again, the operative word is "report" which is the only way that meaninful statistis could be developed. I suppose if no one reports rape or s.ex abuse then it must not exist [maybe the "evil-west" should start taking reports from women and action upon them in order to have a "clean" record ]. It's a bit like saying that if I don't report my income then I should not have to pay taxes (because clearly "income" does not exist in my household)

I rest my case


Now the racial comments