Dubai Forums Dubai Discussions Dubai Politics Talk Philosophy and Religion Forums

Chocoholic wrote:Oh and here's a really good one! When police searched the property of one of the suspects arrested in High Wycombe they found.....wait for it......30 Cannabis plants! WTF! So you go all religious, 'allegedly' get involved in planning to blow up planes and yet you're growing weed in your back yard - give me a break.

soooooooooo funny, way to go Chocs, nice one

Lionheart

In the UK, being arrested is not the same as being charged. Therefore they are still considered "innocent" up to the time they are "charged".

They also have to seek permission from the courts to keep them under arrest. The evidence is put before the judge for him or her to decide if the police have enough evidence to keep them under "arrest". Whilst this process continues they are considered innocent.

This is why one has been released. The judge didnt consider the evidence strong enough to keep the suspect under arrest.

Hope this clears up the technicalities.

Freza, I'd hardly call a plot to blow 9 planes simultaniously out of the sky, killing around 3,000 people all at once being blown out of proportion. Please don't confuse the matters with other religions, it's hardly the same. You never get Christians blowing people up 'in the name of god', it just doesn't happen.

We all know the issues between Catholics and Protestants, that's been waging for hundreds of years.

It all comes back to my original opinions, that religion in any form is a bad thing. If there were no religion, but a way for 'humanity' to live, then you wouldn't have people using it as an excuse and one group thinking they're better than anyone else.

Also with regard to the comment uae75 about people getting angry at what they see and hear in the news. We all get angry, but I think you have to be insane to want to strap on a bomb and go blow up people becaue of it. What does it achieve? Absolutely nothing!

arniegang wrote:Therefore they are still considered "innocent" up to the time they are "charged".

Until "convicted" no? In theory at least.

freza wrote:Can you name one powerful American Christian religious leader or group who condemns the US and Israel's wars of destruction? (Just out of the top of your head, can you name one???)

Carter.

freza wrote:This entire terrorist plot is being blown out of proportion.

No pun intended, right ?

Unholy? Freza, get a grip! There's nothing Holy about blowing yourself up and others along with you! It's a cowards way out.

Yeah you keep bashing the Bush/Blair thing and put your head in the sand with regard to the other issues.

At least terrorist plots are getting stopped before people get killed! So you'd rather it actually happened?! My god, now you show your true colours!

You really do take it too far sometimes.

We're not talking about Bush/Blair in this thread! We're talking about the plane plot! Stop messing up a perfectly good topic with your rants again. And what you said about the 'unholy' alliance, well Freza why don't you get it over with and brand us all infidels - as that's what you're insinuating!

Just because people are not Muslim does not make them unholy. There are other people in the world who believe other things, that does not make them less.

If you can stick to the topic and discuss it rationally, then don't bother. You've ruined the thread, now go way.

Calm down people............this thread is not worth the fight! We are here to discuss in a civil manner

That's fine dude, but I obejct to some of the things Freaz is saying. It's off topic.

Note to Freza

Your posts have been deleted. I have previously asked nicely and you were given fair warning about your behaviour.

uae75 wrote:Calm down people............this thread is not worth the fight! We are here to discuss in a civil manner

Thank you 75'

wise words - appreciated

my bad, terrorism has NOTHING to do with politics at all.... what was I thinking???

My reference to "unholy alliance" had nothing to do with religion! I'm amazed at how some people choose to misinterpret things.

My posts were not emotional, nor where they accusatory, they were merely stating something factual: political decisions cause terrorism (((hello))). Let's hand the mic to Chevaliers of Sion and other trolls whose "interesting" and racist posts will surely not get deleted while by the biased police here (Who would ever think we're in an Arab country on this forum?!)

arniegang wrote:

uae75 wrote:Calm down people............this thread is not worth the fight! We are here to discuss in a civil manner

Thank you 75'

wise words - appreciated

Thanks arniegang, but i would have to admit, i was disappointd when u deleted freza comments. They weren't abusive, and I did think this is an open forum for discussion, and although not everyone might like her comments, its still her opinion, and you can either agree or disagree.....but hey, its just my opinion

uae75 wrote:

arniegang wrote:

uae75 wrote:Calm down people............this thread is not worth the fight! We are here to discuss in a civil manner

Thank you 75'

wise words - appreciated

Thanks arniegang, but i would have to admit, i was disappointd when u deleted freza comments. They weren't abusive, and I did think this is an open forum for discussion, and although not everyone might like her comments, its still her opinion, and you can either agree or disagree.....but hey, its just my opinion

uae75
Unfortunately that's how things are in this forum. Unpopular opinions are not welcomed. pro-West opinions are welcomed with open arms. stick around and you'll see what I mean...

No Freza, that is not the case at all. You went off topic discussing something which already has several threads. If you cannot keep to topic then don't post anything. And I have to disagree and say you get overly emotional on some topics and your attitude becomes very aggressive.

75'

I never said they were abusive. I had complaints via pm, that, in my opinion were justified.

This maybe an "open forum" but at the end of the day Mods decide on whether the line has been crossed.

When you start talking of bombing people, the line is crossed. I am not going to continually discuss this. People know the rules and if they wish to post something controversial or "borderline" they can post it to me via "pm" before submission.

Back ON topic.....

Several of those suspected of being involved with the plot have been found to have links to Al-Aqaeda at this time.

Chocoholic wrote:K, I didn't mean it like that, although I know that's how it came across. I meant they should throw this lot out and their associates. Clearly a pattern is beginning to form with certain people being involved in this type of thing, so sad to say there has to be more control over who is being let into the country and where certain people are going.

i know u are sorry and made a mistake and didnt mean it like that

but that post of urs gives us all the wrong impression of u being a bay....aatch (which most probably u are'nt)

so please with all respect go and edit the post.

xibit wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:K, I didn't mean it like that, although I know that's how it came across. I meant they should throw this lot out and their associates. Clearly a pattern is beginning to form with certain people being involved in this type of thing, so sad to say there has to be more control over who is being let into the country and where certain people are going.

i know u are sorry and made a mistake and didnt mean it like that

but that post of urs gives us all the wrong impression of u being a bay....aatch (which most probably u are'nt)

so please with all respect go and edit the post.

xibit

Chocoholic wrote:No Freza, that is not the case at all. You went off topic discussing something which already has several threads. If you cannot keep to topic then don't post anything. And I have to disagree and say you get overly emotional on some topics and your attitude becomes very aggressive.

No I did not go off topic at all, I discussed the reason why this type of terrorist threats exists, I mean, everyone knows about it. I don't get emotional on these threads, I think it's funny that you're using this word (emotional) which I've used to accurately describe you.... uae75 was telling you to calm down, you being so jumpy and yeah, emotional...

But to be fair, like arnie is, I think you should apologize for stating that Pakistanis should be thrown out of the UK and that the Muslim communities are not doing enough to curb terrorism; that my dear, does sound racist and aggressive.

Back on topic.... So one of the alleged terror suspects was caught around the Afghanistan border... ok...

p.s.
(just a note: I think you're mistakenly hitting the <--enter key one too many times when you post)

uae75 wrote:Calm down people............this thread is not worth the fight! We are here to discuss in a civil manner

FYI

this post was not directed soley at Chocs. Freza get your facts correct, it included YOU as well

My dear Freza, if you bothered to go and read my following message I already did apologies as Xibit already pointed out, so no I don't have to thank you very much.

And it's a fact that Muslim communities aren't doing enough to check what is being preached and to make sure that people aren't being taught wrong things. It's a subject that's been brought up time and time again. That's hardly racist, but a plain and simple fact. Sad but true. Good and proper Muslims should be ashamed at the actions of these people, but 9 times out of 10, they sit in silence and say nothing.

being quiet and doing nothing is a fair summary of the whole Middle East. It all boils down to money at the end of the day, religioniand principles are secondary.

arnie

Oh I know! Though I don't think I was out of tone at all, should I say a mea culpa just so that some people feel better? OK it was my fault too, there, happy?

Now since you're into small details let's not ignore these big ones:

"therefore they should be tried for treason, which still carries the death penalty. ..." calling for violence?

"more updates say all those arrested are of Pakistani decent - they should just throw them all bloody well out!!!!" oh-oh..this is a racist statement. I didn't hear the apology from Choco as she states, where is it? I think I missed it.

"Sorry to say that it's these kind of people which give the majority of peaceful muslims a bad name, but also the problem comes from within as the Muslim community is not seen as actively trying to weed out those which would take part in such activities." inflammatory statement.

It's in my reply to Kanelli Freza, 2 posts afterwards, having trouble with the back page clicker are we?

And I'm sorry but it's true, if you commit a crime against your country of origin, then you're committing treason against that country and it's civilians. I make no apologies for the fact that harsher penalties for those convicted of terrist crimes should be used to send a warning message that it will not be tolerated.

I was not, unlike you, calling for people to be killed on a mass scale, there is a difference.

I can cover this from every angle Freza, so don't even bother going up for it!

lets now give an alternative viewpoint

"therefore they should be tried for treason, which still carries the death penalty. ..." calling for violence?

This is not a call for violence. Treason in the UK is a crime still punishable by death. It is a fact, not an opinion

"more updates say all those arrested are of Pakistani decent - they should just throw them all bloody well out!!!!" oh-oh..this is a racist statement. I didn't hear the apology from Choco as she states, where is it? I think I missed it.

I read this as Chocs meaning "those who are arrested" should be thrown out. I dont see any other meaning in this statement. Its no different to being convicted of a crime in the UAE and being deported.

"Sorry to say that it's these kind of people which give the majority of peaceful muslims a bad name, but also the problem comes from within as the Muslim community is not seen as actively trying to weed out those which would take part in such activities." inflammatory statement.

[/quote]

This is not an inflamatory statement. It is an opinion, which the majority of people other than muslims agree with in the UK. It also happens to be true.

I have been a member in this forum for 48 hours only, and I already feel bias opinions and racials tension flying all over this thread!!!!

If I take the point of view of each of you three "arniegang", "chocoholic" & "freza"....then I am sure i will be convinced, and I probably fully support it.

However, this means that this discussion can go on and on forever, and with no one able to convince the other party with his/her opinion, therefore I do suggest that we close this thread, cuz its taking us nowhere, and its turning a bit ugly.

hey uae75, for the record I would never enforce an opinion on anyone. I mearly give my opinion and state fact, that is pretty much it. However what I do get annoyed with, it people twisting things around.

It's not nasty while everyone is respectful of others opinions. Take yours for example, your very thought provoking and put your opinions across well and it's a pleasure to read your posts.

Well, I wish I could have seen Freza's posts that got deleted. From my perspective it is still perfectly on topic to discuss why some people want to commit suicide attacks on innocent civilians. This thread is about planned terrorist attacks is it not? Of course, the wording is essential. Freza makes a fair point about some of the troll's posts still being allowed on this forum while other people's posts are not. With respect, let's try to be a little more objective with the moderating.

I do have to say - we have been around most of these points before in previous threads.

There are lots of other disenfranchised groups in this world, but you don't see them strapping bombs to themselves and blowing up innocent civilians. Systematic suicide bombing and mass terrorism on the part of radical Muslims is not admirable and just make people think less of all Muslims. Can you blame them? Do you think it makes some Londoners feel comfortable to sit on the metro next to an Arab-looking person with a backpack? Their brains may say, "Don't be racist or stereotypical. This guy is harmless.", but in reality that person could have a bomb. The guy may be harmless, but the fact remains that other Arab or Arab-looking Muslims have broken the trust of the public and this makes life more difficult for moderate Muslims who are innocent and non-violent.

I still think that Muslims are not doing enough. They don't have a big enough political lobby, don't band together because of sectarian/political boundaries, and they don't do enough to reach out to the public or try to counter the negative portrayals that Muslims get in some media coverage. Most of all, the moderate Muslims are not doing an effective job of identifying and flushing out the radical people who are tainting the minds of young Muslim men and brainwashing them into becoming terrorists.

All of these things you can't blame on Western governments. It is such a cop-out to have many Arabs and Muslims blaming the West for all their troubles. They need to outsmart and outplay any Western government that is meddling. Why not use economic power over them! My guess is that things are going to fester until there is an all-out war.

Chocoholic wrote:hey uae75, for the record I would never enforce an opinion on anyone. I mearly give my opinion and state fact, that is pretty much it. However what I do get annoyed with, it people twisting things around.

It's not nasty while everyone is respectful of others opinions. Take yours for example, your very thought provoking and put your opinions across well and it's a pleasure to read your posts.

Thanks my dear, and although I love debates, specially political ones, but one thing I hate, is when people start to get too emotional with their opinions, its in that specific moment, a perosn should know when to quit, cuz an emotional person always find it difficult to comprehend other people's opinions.