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mraph33 wrote:

freza wrote:Oh you, the one that pulled a George Bush .

Hey a George Bush!!! Now you've added a noun to all the adjectives that you've been calling me.
Fortunately, my actions speak much louder than your words.
While I have met others like you in my travels and work for peace, fortunately there are still many who are looking for ways to make the world a better place. Tolerance, means amongst other things, tolerance for others' ideas - which you have absolutely none, which is approximately the level of your etiquette as well.
And once again, you have tried to catagorize my criticism of Hezbollah and support of Israel, which indeed it isn't. While you and Corc may see them as the defenders of Lebanon, they are view by others (primarily from the Christian community) in a much less favorable light.
There will be peace in the middle-east, because the only other option is that there will cease to be a middle east.
You can be one who actively promotes the process or you can continue to be one that verbally promotes violence. In my mind...THAT is shameful.

i once wanted peace ...and i thought israel is here and we dont need to have deplomatic relations with it , and altso no war and alot of people felt the same but when this happened in lebanon it showed to alot of peace believers that israel wants war and lives on killing shamefuly cold blooded and then pretend it was an honest mistake 1000 CIVILLIAN is an honest mistake yeah , yeah ... our dream of peace has vanished the moment the whole world knew who is the murderer and who is the victim.

My perspective is that once a point of view has been expressed, and clarified where necessary, there is little point in going over the same ground again.

Whilst there is a need to vent frustrations - internet forums are not the best places for this.

There has been a lot of heat in this thread recently which unfortunately detracts from the common theme shared by most - that of empathy and at the killings of innocents.

At the end of the day, none of us here can influence one little bit the outcome of this unfolding tragedy - other than what our actions alone can achieve. It is futile trying to get someone else to agree to everything from your perspective - each is entitled to their own views at the end of the day. If we focus on what we agree on, then the differences do (in my opinion) are actually minor.

I wish everyone can enjoy a life that is not marred by violence or injustice - i.e. peace and justice for all.

Shafique,

thanks for being "as always" the voice of wisdom.

kanelli wrote:See, my point is made. Chocs, Mraph - it is a losing battle trying to talk any sense here.

Freza, you are one of the most arrogant and patronising people I have met on this forum in a while. I wonder how much worse you'll get after another 23 years of life experience.

My posts make clear that I am aware of both perspectives. As I said, just because I won't agree to the genocide of Israeli people does not mean that I support what they are doing to their Arab neighbours. I would never have planned to make Israel exist - I am just a realist that it DOES exist. So, you calling me a Zionist is incorrect.

So, no further discussion from my end - it would be a waste of time. Chocs and Mraph, you should consider the same. Just let this be the venting and "genocide to Israel" thread for those who are very upset. We can only hope that when they calm down they won't be still calling for a group of people to be wiped off the planet.

I would like to note that i was just feeding the troll replying to this israeli guy.

Other than that, i dont' think anyone here (or me atleast) is asking for killin all israelies or doing a genocide.

all we want is the land back to palestinians, and people of israel go back to where they came from, weather it is Russia, Europe, States, or Africa.

Asking for a Genocide will make us as bad as them.

Before Israel, jews were living in peace in the middle east, i know 2 sinegog (Jewish temple) in Cairo, as they were living there in peace until israel came in place and declared that their land is the one between the rivers "carved on thier general assembly" which is very hostile statment.

Judism is the oldest "heavenly religion" as we belive as muslims, and if we said jews where here and there, then,,, they existed everywhere in the world as there were no other religion (heavenlt) during these ages.

But as far as i'm concerned, since the civilized countires bounderies came in place, there was no israel, i'll not get into the history of how israel was formed.


Anyway, again i'm saying, We or at least ME don'twant anyone to get killed, we need the land back to palestinians and Jews can live there or anywhere else in peace as they did before.

MaaaD wrote:Not for the faint of heart, or those who wish to continue be blinded from the truth:

for those of you on Etisalat connections try this link:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... e14258.htm

what's in that video is a outrageous but it points out the most important issue: while The BLack Devil (C.RIce) smiles and while kissing USA AS$ T. Blair remains silent INNOCENT PPL DIE just for a bunch of crazy ppl who dare to start a massacre for their own ego!
my heart and all my compasion goes to lebanese ppl and may God give them strenght to overcome this while they cry burying their victims. i feel sorry for all the babies that were killed in Lebanon and Israel as well, for the widows, and mothers, for fathers from both countries it's must be unbearable!
the real bomb that kills is the hate between ppl that go on is this stupid fight and have no ideea that LIFE is more important than anything!
NOTHING can justify killing innocent civilians!!!!

who said anything about killing isarelis !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! please check who is doing the killing?

Corcovado wrote:who said anything about killing isarelis !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! please check who is doing the killing?

corcovado, with all due respect for ur views an opinions i think it's unfair to talk only about the lebanese victims, there r victims as well in Israel
i am not taking sides in here, i did not blame Lebanon for what's going on!
i was talking about "innocent ppl"civilians who carry no guilt in all this crap!
and if it all goes down to politics than i Blame ISRAEL&Co (USA and UK) for all that's happening, but my point was that we don't have to hate the civilians but to blame and hate THE GOVs of the states who r involved!
hope i made myself clear and u will get my point this time!

alexandra wrote:

Corcovado wrote:who said anything about killing isarelis !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! please check who is doing the killing?

corcovado, with all due respect for ur views an opinions i think it's unfair to talk only about the lebanese victims, there r victims as well in Israel
i am not taking sides in here, i did not blame Lebanon for what's going on!
i was talking about "innocent ppl"civilians who carry no guilt in all this crap!
and if it all goes down to politics than i Blame ISRAEL&Co (USA and UK) for all that's happening, but my point was that we don't have to hate the civilians but to blame and hate THE GOVs of the states who r involved!
hope i made myself clear and u will get my point this time!

yee alexandra i wrote this to answer kanelli and mraph cos they 're saying that we want all israelis dead

What about the civil war going on in Iraq...while all the people's eyes are concentraiting in Israel-Lebanon, we have the doble of casualties right now in Iraq.

Freza, Your last post is just silly seeing as at some point or another in this thread, you, Yshimy and Corcovado have all said you'd like to see people in Israel die!

Also you all missed my point regarding the Qana bombing, and that in fact Hezbollah had been launchign rockets from this site, however the Sky news footage showed that the building which was being used for the launch of weapons and the one Israel actually hit were different, the one being hit was a civilian building which we all know, and which Israel admitted they'd made a mistake - no excuse - but something you all conveniently forgot and did not see or hear of all the facts.

Once again, no-one here agrees or accepts Israels reaction, but what I abhore is people callig for others to be murdered as you only make yourselves part of the problem.

Also, to compare things 2000 years ago is ridiculous! Man has conquered other lands as soon as he was able to. To just look at Israel and Palenstine and that region is very narrow minded. How many countries today are in their original form that they were 2000 years ago. It's irrelevant. The point is these states exist whether you like it or not. The question is now how do you get them live together.

And as Kanelli and Mgraph, I will no longer post in this topic either, so you can all carry no spreading your hatred.

Read the thread through and you will see that people were saying that Israel and Israelis should die, especially Corcovado. Yshimy's comment came from another thread and he has since clarified. I don't accuse people of things that are not plainly visible. As I said before, people are upset about the current situation and might have said things in anger. I truly hope that no one believes that Israel and Israelis should be wiped out.

Freza, you say I'm... Self-righteous? Maybe - but then we'd also have that in common. Insincere? Not in the slightest.

You would be wise to lose the attitude that you are so much smarter than everyone else and your opinion is the "correct" one. That kind of arrogance doesn't go well around here. FYI, not everyone here thinks that the Arab-Israeli conflict is the most important subject for them to focus on. The world is a large place and there are many important issues.

Chocoholic wrote:Freza, Your last post is just silly seeing as at some point or another in this thread, you, Yshimy and Corcovado have all said you'd like to see people in Israel die!

Also you all missed my point regarding the Qana bombing, and that in fact Hezbollah had been launchign rockets from this site, however the Sky news footage showed that the building which was being used for the launch of weapons and the one Israel actually hit were different, the one being hit was a civilian building which we all know, and which Israel admitted they'd made a mistake - no excuse - but something you all conveniently forgot and did not see or hear of all the facts.

Once again, no-one here agrees or accepts Israels reaction, but what I abhore is people callig for others to be murdered as you only make yourselves part of the problem.

Also, to compare things 2000 years ago is ridiculous! Man has conquered other lands as soon as he was able to. To just look at Israel and Palenstine and that region is very narrow minded. How many countries today are in their original form that they were 2000 years ago. It's irrelevant. The point is these states exist whether you like it or not. The question is now how do you get them live together.

And as Kanelli and Mgraph, I will no longer post in this topic either, so you can all carry no spreading your hatred.

our hatred???????????????? we are sharing our pain and anger from a situation where our people are dead and killed and u say HATRED? shame on u Shame on u ... i

kanelli wrote:Read the thread through and you will see that people were saying that Israel and Israelis should die, especially Corcovado. Yshimy's comment came from another thread and he has since clarified. I don't accuse people of things that are not plainly visible. As I said before, people are upset about the current situation and might have said things in anger. I truly hope that no one believes that Israel and Israelis should be wiped out.

Freza, you say I'm... Self-righteous? Maybe - but then we'd also have that in common. Insincere? Not in the slightest.

You would be wise to lose the attitude that you are so much smarter than everyone else and your opinion is the "correct" one. That kind of arrogance doesn't go well around here. FYI, not everyone here thinks that the Arab-Israeli conflict is the most important subject for them to focus on. The world is a large place and there are many important issues.

i dont blame u , cos u wouldnt understand ..its not ur home that is destroyed and not ur family living in a park ...not ur kid shattered in half.. i dont blame u i just wish u insight

Here we go again...

That's still no excuse for some of the things that you guys have said. As I have said before HATE is a very strong word and to wish others dead in retaliation makes you no better than Israel or Hezbollah.

Shame on me? Shame on you for not being able to rise above it, and wishing hurt and blame on other innocent people who are no more to blame than those in Lebanon.

kanelli wrote:Here we go again...

no not again ..i thank u for ur sympathy and i dont expect u to understand the way we feel seeing our country destroyed .. i am in jordan now living in a house of 20 relatives escaped lebanon and have no place to go and survived the bombing by pure luck .... thank u kanelli

We should all be showing support and human compassion in times like these. Things are very trying and emotional but bickering at one another will do nothing ladies.

For a person to let themselves be consumed with hatred and anger and to what to enact revenge just shows weakness and an avoidance for a solution. Because of course it's just much easier to blow your enemy to bits than to sit and talk to him and try to live peacefully.

You guys can take your anger and use it in a negative, disfunctional way. Or you can use it in a positive way.

We all appreciate that you're upset and hurting however at the moment all the horrid things you guys say just serve to be destructive both to yourselves and everyone else.

Nuff said.

Chocoholic wrote:That's still no excuse for some of the things that you guys have said. As I have said before HATE is a very strong word and to wish others dead in retaliation makes you no better than Israel or Hezbollah.

Shame on me? Shame on you for not being able to rise above it, and wishing hurt and blame on other innocent people who are no more to blame than those in Lebanon.

800 civillians died 50% of them are children , in israel 10 civillians died and 2 kids and the rest are soldiers ... we dont want kids to die but please put ur anger on the murders who are killing our children not us ..

I have given sympathy, and I try to understand. Nothing like that has ever happened to my family. In any case, I wouldn't wish the same thing on other people's families.

Chocoholic wrote:For a person to let themselves be consumed with hatred and anger and to what to enact revenge just shows weakness and an avoidance for a solution. Because of course it's just much easier to blow your enemy to bits than to sit and talk to him and try to live peacefully.

You guys can take your anger and use it in a negative, disfunctional way. Or you can use it in a positive way.

We all appreciate that you're upset and hurting however at the moment all the horrid things you guys say just serve to be destructive both to yourselves and everyone else.

Nuff said.

ur so stubborn .... i dont want to convice u ... think what u want and please dont pretend that u have any idea about my feelings cos u dont....

ENOUGH SAID

Convince me of what Corcs, that the things you say are justified? I have friends who I talk to everyday whose families are in the same situation as yours, but not one of them has said anything like the things you have said.

Again you brand and entire nation as murderers, well is the entire nation responsible? No it is not! It is their misguided Government.

We all have compassion for those who're suffering. But it's not about numbers and how many have died on either side, the point is innocents are dying and just one, is one too many.

Chocoholic wrote:Convince me of what Corcs, that the things you say are justified? I have friends who I talk to everyday whose families are in the same situation as yours, but not one of them has said anything like the things you have said.

We all have compassion for those who're suffering. But it's not about numbers and how many have died on either side, the point is innocents are dying and just one, is one too many.

my parents cant come they are stuck in a country they cant leave there is no fuel no food nothing ...and u say HATE ...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i am so tired so leave me alone

Corcovado wrote:

arniegang wrote:FREZA

This is your first and final warning - tone it down or i will delete your posts.

Thanks

Mod.

excuse me arnie i dont think her tone was wrong and u have no right what so ever to tell her this ...she is defending her opinion which is her right and she didnt offend any one so please be fair

I am tired of the constant accusion and use of the term Zionist and i am tired of the constant angry words and personal abuse in here.

With respect Corcs you may be be of the opinion that she is not offending anyone, but i mod this forum and i also have EVERY RIGHT to make MY opinion.

Defend or challenge opinions by all means, but i want it done here with "respect".

I am not going to debate these issues further. If i see anything i feel is inappropriate in my opinion, or i have "pm's" expressing concern, i will just delete the post.

If the general angry tone and personal stuff continues i will lock this thread. It is starting to go around in circles now. Shaf made a fair summary a few pages ago.

If there is anything here that isn't clear or anyone does not understand, then please pm me.

Corcs, anyone of us would willingly help and support you. However I don't tolerate comments from people such as Inquirer and Nostrodamus, so I won't tolerate them coming from the other side of the fence either - that wouldn't be fair now would it?

If some of you guys want to carry on spreading messages of hatred, then perhaps do it somewhere ele as it serves no purpose here, when the rest of us are having good discussions and debates.

Corcovado,

I am starting to think that it's useless to argue with some of these people. (I still don't understand why people are allowed to accuse some of us of hatred and of wanting genocide for Israeli's, this not only being ridiculous but untrue.)

I think that some of the animosity found here boils down to outsiders, usually Westerners, thinking that they know best no matter what. It's what you see in the Middle East after all; outside interference by governments that think they know best for the region, yet they understand little of it. It's been reported that Bush didn't even know that there are two major sects in Islam before the Iraq invasion! And the blunders his administration committed in the region were not only caused by unabated greed but by a lot of ignorance. The same is happening with Israel, Israel thought that it could annihilate Hezbollah in a few days, if not hours, little did they know...

I think that what we see here is a bit of projection: People projecting their arrogance and superiority and a "we know best, what is good for YOU people" type of attitude. Funny that we, the ones with opposing views, are being called arrogant, it's ironic actually...

No Freza, you're wrong in your assumptions. Many of us have vast experience of living in the Middle East and well understand the issues here. We do not accuse people of anything, but you have said such things, it's in black and white in this thread! As I said it's not tolerated of others bashing YOU guys from the likes of the others I've mentioned, so therefore why should we not ask you also to refrain from making such comments - fairs fair!

For you to falsely brand others on the forum just goes to show how little you know of anyone here, so in actualy fact it's you who is the arrogant one, thinking you know everything.

The rest of us have given up trying to explain our views to you as you're just not open minded enough to accept that there are other views apart from yours.

Freza, Corcs and I know each other in person. Trying to pull an "us" vs. "them" won't work. She knows I am supportive and understanding, even if critical of certain language used in anger.

It is highly illogical to point out George Bush not knowing the two Islamic factions before invading Iraq as an example of how some of us on the forum are ignorant about Middle East affairs. First of all, that story may not even be true, but most of all - we are not George Bush! I don't appreciate the West stereotyping again.

Freza, some of what you have posted has been very good, but it is the arrogant tone you have posted that is so repulsive. As well, you insist that you are right and have no tolerance for differing opinions or analysis. You know what - you are a 23 year old and not a Middle East expert that is being booked on all the major news channels. Even then, an expert wouldn't treat others like they are idiots just because they aren't as expert as he/she is. You should learn a little more respect when posting.

As seen in Beirut...



http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/2871/232/1600/aaaab.6.jpg

Image doesn't show.

Those are good! They show when I view the thread Chocs, don't know why you can't see them.