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No offence taken , We may not agree and I'm definitely not always right.

But isn't this a good analogy of what has happened? the wife slapped the husband, wrong. The husband instead of turning the cheak or being the better person pummelled the wife to the point where she can't walk?

Choco - to extend the analogy, the husband was guilty of bad mouthing the wife, restricting her allowance, not allowing her to go out freely and occasionally slapping her when no one was looking. She complained to his friends, but they said that she was his wife and he had the right to keep order in his house.

To make matters worse, when he was pummelling her for her insubordination of slapping him, his friends looked on and said he was defending himself from her attacks.

Now, her women friends all were trying to persuade their husbands etc that the husband was at fault, but they would have nothing of it. All the women friends were aghast at the treatment, but some said she was right to fight back, others said that it made her situation worse and that she should not have done it.

I think the analogy fits extremely well.

What would you, Choco, advise in this situation? Subservience in future? Do you blame the wife for the beating?

What if we extend the analogy to the husband beating up the kids who had no part in the arguement? He said it was the wife's fault for making him angry when the kids were in the same room. His friends agree with him.

Now who is at fault - still the wife?

Food for thought.

I forgot another part of than analogy:

As the husband is pummelling the wife and kids, the wife is defiant and once in a while lands a blow on the husband.

The husband keeps telling everyone 'look, she is still hitting back, I have to defend myself'.

The father-in-law now stands in the kitchen (who everyone thought would stay the hand of the husband when he eventually would arrive) and repeats what he said from home - "my son has the right to defend himself and I won't tell him to stop until he stops being slapped. We cannot allow our women to think they can go round slapping husbands - that is terrorism. I'm sorry the kids are being slapped and hurt, but this is the price to pay for a new era in this household."


Still blame the wife?

No, if you're putting it that way then of course she has the right to defend herself. However, fighting violence with violence is never the answer to the situation. Better off getting out of it altogether, then you won't have to suffer it.

In a new development 4 Iranian elite Revolutionary Guards’ were killed in Lebanon, mounting the evidence that Iran are more involved than they let on and are pulling Hezbollah's strings.

(At the risk of ruining the analogy ... I couldn't resist extending the analogy a bit further)

there are rumours that a women's lib movement in a neighbouring house has urged the wife to stand up to the husband. The women in that house have decided not to put up with oppression from their husbands.

Some think that the husband's reaction is being tolerated to send a message to any would-be women lib sympathisers.

Oh - one other thing - the house the wife lives in belonged to her family and was part of her inheritance. Her husband is now trying to get her to leave and accept that he owns the house and land (he pushed out her cousins who lived in the guest house and who are now camped in the neighbour's garden. The neighbour isn't too happy, and doesn't allow them to put up permanent shelters... but only to live in tents and to help with the gardening. The cousins occasionally look over the fence and shout insults to the husband and sometimes throw rocks at him... the husband is considering jumping the fence and setting fire to the tent...no oops, he has just done that)

Ok, I'll stop my literary flights of fancy now...

Shaf, appreciate what you're trying to do, however I think the analogies are now ditracting from the main topic at hand.

Ok.

The news about the revolutionafy guards hasn't made it to the BBC news website yet.. do you have more details?

Cheers,
shafique

Plus I can't figure out who is the wife, the father-in-law or the neighbor

Google it and the newswires carrying it will apear. Lebanese, Israeli and Egyptian security forces 'allegedly' confirmed reports.

Choco - I did Google it (first thing I do these days) and it wasn't yet - but I may have typed republican guard instead of revolutionary guard... hmm, I'll go back and have a look.

Mraph - trust me, you aren't alone (just ask anyone who the bad guy is in all this )

Recent reports now of several UN peacekeeper observers being killed by an Israeli jet in South Lebanon. Even the peacekeepers aren't safe.

shafique wrote:Choco - I did Google it (first thing I do these days) and it wasn't yet - but I may have typed republican guard instead of revolutionary guard... hmm, I'll go back and have a look.

Mraph - trust me, you aren't alone (just ask anyone who the bad guy is in all this )

so what? iranians are in lebanon ? duh? we all know that israel was planning to do this anyways ....so it doesnt matter who is where ...

They already reported it this morning....4 were killed

Still no news that I could find about the revolutionary guards.. would expect this to be big news.

Choco - I thought you were referring to even more UN peacekeepers being killed, rather than the 4 (Canadian, Finnish, Chinese and Austrian) were sheltering in a bunker when they were killed yesterday. Reports today say that the UN General contacted the Israelis to back off before the final bombings that killed the 4 soldiers.

To add insult to injury, Israeli jets fired on the UN rescuers going through the rubble!

It'll be interesting to see the reaction of Canada, China, Finland and Austria.

Kofi Annan got upset with the dilliberate attack. Olhmert says that it was an accident.....interesting to see how he explains this one

Apparently the UN contacted the Israelis 10 times for them to halt the attack on the observation post BEFORE they killed the guys there.

I'm sure they will manage to white-wash the incident, but it will be mighty interesting to see the spin on this.

My money is on a straight 'sorry guys... we didn't quite understand the 10 calls telling us to stop bombing UN peacekeepers, my bad'

shafique wrote:My money is on a straight 'sorry guys... we didn't quite understand the 10 calls telling us to stop bombing UN peacekeepers, my bad'

I got a prank call like that last night also.

Corcovado, what it means is that Iran could also be pulling strings to actively cause unrest in the region. Hezbollah are Iranian anyway, but the fact that there are reports of their special guard actively working in Lebanon is not good news. Apparently according to several reports the Iranians of course are denying involvement of these people, but there a re reports daying the bodies were taken undercover out of the country to Syria.

Think of the implications of Iran being there, fighting on Lebanese soil, it would give the U.S. an excuse to have a go at Iran - that's the bigger picture.

The UN was set up by Jews originally and I would take their reporting with a pinch of salt as there are so many rules and regulations to what they can and can't write. I know this as my flatmate works as a reporter for the UN and although his entire office, including himself, are anti Israel, they are not allowed to put across their viewpoint. For me, this would take away the whole point of journalism!

Unfortunately, no matter what China, Australia etc say, this war between Israel and Lebanon/Palestine will not end in the forseeable future. Even if all the countries in the world oppose this war in a big way, America has the power to override all of that. ALL countries must agree to end it. And unfortunately China and Australia are riding on the back of America to pull up their economy. Maybe once this is strong enough and they can break away, can anything be done about this, but then it WILL cause world war three.

Nostradamus predicted the cause of WW3 would be over the fight of Palestine. He predicted that Muslims would have many knockbacks and would have to struggle but that they would actually win the war at the end... we can only hope. But it is good to see his predictions happening which is more than can be said for his world ending in the year 2000 predictions!!!!!

fayz wrote:

shafique wrote:Kanelli,
I suspect you would never blame a wife for 'provoking' her husband by talking back or slapping him resulting in him beating her into a broken mess. Or perhaps some people would say it is the woman's fault?? Why not live in 'peace and stability' and not provoke her husband?

Just a thought.

Cheers,
Shafique

Excellent post Shaf, I’m really curious to how Kanelli will answer your very accurate analogy.

Btw thank you both Shaf, Kanelli and the bulk of posters on this thread for helping to educate and openly debate about a very serious issue.

Kanelli over to you for a rebutal

Yes, it is an interesting analogy Shaf

But you see, I have already said that Israel has over-reacted and what they are doing is terrible. I posted that a few times!

So, to bring it to the selected analogy... If the woman had not slapped her husband, he likely would not have beaten her. One act of physical provocation escalated the situation. That still doesn't mean that the husband should not be punished and accountable for his beating. The wife should have known better than to strike her husband, especially if he is a very angry person and has a history of similar violence.

How did I do?

Thanks Fayz, I too think this thread is educational. I like to read and understand other people's perspectives. Good arguments and more info can persuade people to consider new perspectives.

Princess Banana Hammock wrote:The UN was set up by Jews originally and I would take their reporting with a pinch of salt as there are so many rules and regulations to what they can and can't write.

What???

Unbelievable but true...

which jews exactly are you talking about? FDR?

It was set up by Americans during WW2 I think. And lets face it, Israel is just another American state...

Why don't the US build a Dubai style state and give ship all the Israelis out there... they have the money to do it. Hell, they give Israel $400 billion a year, surely they can make a damn good state in the Arizonian desert for that much!!

America... run by Jews...

The American government once had a plan to have the world ruled under one government... do you think that plan is still in place? Because the only resistance to that I can see are a few countries in the ME...

Jews made the UN....$400 billion/year.....Arizona.....very interesting theories

Arizona is just a nice thought... unfortunatley America wouldn't do it because it's run by Jews and even if they did, Israelis would never accept it.

Where else do the Israeli army get their money from for their weapons of mass destruction?? Cos it sure as hell aint Israel as the place doesn't even exsist! It's such a shame, I'd love to work in the U States but the thought of paying American taxes makes me physically sick... The world is trapped in an American bubble. We're ruled by the States. Which is effectively run by Jews...

Even the American Secretary of state said 'If the Middle East is not ready to conform then we will have to make it ready.'

Hmmm... do I sound Pro Palestine in all this?!?!

Pro-Palestinian???
I have no problem with a person being pro-Palestinian.....but you sound a bit confused to be honest

I'm not confused. Just angered... and I find it hard to comrehend the amount of power these people have. Shocked even at the realisation of my own words. That the world is ruled by the US. I find it extremely disheartening but there is almost nothing anyone can do.

Israel is obsessed with its own image and strives to maintain its racial superiority at all costs. They see any resistance to this imagined superiority as an existential threat. They are protecting themselves against phantom threats. Setbacks enrage Israel and any humiliations madden them. They lash out in crazy ways, and lack any sense of proportion, just to reassure itself of its strength and worth. Israel have no boundaries... geographical or moral. Their attempt to beat the Palestinians into submission and swallow Palestine whole is being thwarted by resilient, dignified Palestinian people who refuse to submit quietly and give up resisting Israel's arrogance. I hope Nostradamus is right and the resilience Palestinians are, quite rightly, showing will eventually be worthwhile...

Princess Banana Hammock wrote:I'm not confused. Just angered... and I find it hard to comrehend the amount of power these people have. Shocked even at the realisation of my own words. That the world is ruled by the US. I find it extremely disheartening but there is almost nothing anyone can do.

Israel is obsessed with its own image and strives to maintain its racial superiority at all costs. They see any resistance to this imagined superiority as an existential threat. They are protecting themselves against phantom threats. Setbacks enrage Israel and any humiliations madden them. They lash out in crazy ways, and lack any sense of proportion, just to reassure itself of its strength and worth. Israel have no boundaries... geographical or moral. Their attempt to beat the Palestinians into submission and swallow Palestine whole is being thwarted by resilient, dignified Palestinian people who refuse to submit quietly and give up resisting Israel's arrogance. I hope Nostradamus is right and the resilience Palestinians are, quite rightly, showing will eventually be worthwhile...

now thats more like it .. leave out that conspiracy theory stuff it doesnt matter anyway. The UN is just as dysfunctional as a 70 year old man in bed.

I am positive we will prevail, they like it or not.