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Nick81 wrote:I personally do not care for the US help in this war. They can give us 100 billions dollars, but this won't excuse them for making Israel the country it is today and just delivering them a few days ago "special" ammunition to pierce through bunkers. This just means it'll make it easier to kill innocent civilians by piercing through their HOUSES. Good job.

very true Nick , i agree 100 %

ajb wrote:Are you offering Corc's?

why not?

Corcovado wrote:

ajb wrote:Are you offering Corc's?

why not?

You should ask the powers that be ......

i dont want to be a moderator ..i am far too wild to moderate or be moderated i prefer to be a free spirit and say whatever i want ..whenever i want

B B B Bad bbbbad to the bone !!

ajb wrote:B B B Bad bbbbad to the bone !!

Now that we are all being civilized again....let's get back to the subject:

According to UN resolution 1559, that is now being quoted a lot, it says "Calls for the disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias"

So do people think that Hezbollah should be disarmed (not justifying the Israeli action) - but will this be one of the end results of this war?

mraph33 wrote:Now that we are all being civilized again....let's get back to the subject:

According to UN resolution 1559, that is now being quoted a lot, it says "Calls for the disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias"

So do people think that Hezbollah should be disarmed (not justifying the Israeli action) - but will this be one of the end results of this war?

there are more than one UN resolution for israel which obviouly israel never do...and i dont think israel has any right what so ever to force 1559 on lebanon... i have no trust on UN there are helpless , unfair and have no Credibility or Integrity ... they apply their power on weak countries and when it comes to israel and america they are just a shadow ...

mraph33 wrote:Now that we are all being civilized again....let's get back to the subject:

According to UN resolution 1559, that is now being quoted a lot, it says "Calls for the disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias"

So do people think that Hezbollah should be disarmed (not justifying the Israeli action) - but will this be one of the end results of this war?

If it doesn't happen then all the innocent civilians will have died in vain and this will happen again in a few years. Not mentioning the risk of a civil war taking place if Christians somehow get their hands on weapons too.

when israel leaves Shebaa and give us back samir Kentar and his friends , Hezbulla will give up their weapons

Corcovado wrote:

mraph33 wrote:Now that we are all being civilized again....let's get back to the subject:

According to UN resolution 1559, that is now being quoted a lot, it says "Calls for the disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias"

So do people think that Hezbollah should be disarmed (not justifying the Israeli action) - but will this be one of the end results of this war?

there are more than one UN resolution for israel which obviouly israel never do...and i dont think israel has any right what so ever to force 1559 on lebanon... i have no trust on UN there are helpless , unfair and have no Credibility or Integrity ... they apply their power on weak countries and when it comes to israel and america they are just a shadow ...

In any case, Israel isn't going to be the one to enforce it.
But look, you don't want US money, you don't trust the UN, none of the other Arab countries are really stepping forward to help. How is this going to end? And how is Lebanon going to rebuild itself in the aftermath?

Corcovado wrote:when israel leaves Shebaa and give us back samir Kentar and his friends , Hezbulla will give up their weapons

You really think that?

You're forgetting the 2nd part of their agenda. Didn't anyone here think after what we have witnessed these 2 weeks that Hezbollah could take control of the country in a few days? Who could possibly stop them? Even Israel can't seem to do it...

Personally THIS is what I am most worried about right now.

Nick81 wrote:

Corcovado wrote:when israel leaves Shebaa and give us back samir Kentar and his friends , Hezbulla will give up their weapons

You really think that?

You're forgetting the 2nd part of their agenda. Didn't anyone here think after what we have witnessed these 2 weeks that Hezbollah could take control of the country in a few days? Who could possibly stop them? Even Israel can't seem to do it...

Personally THIS is what I am most worried about right now.

Unfortunately, this is what I am sceptical about also. This is why I raised the question specially about Hezbollah

If Hezbollah were to be forced to disarm then so should everyone one else. Sadly we all know this is never going to happen. It is true that the UN has proved to be very weak in dealing with this, and as yet have offered no real solutions to the problems.

I do think that resolution 1559 should be implemented - Hizbollah should be disarmed.

However, I think that this should be done at the same time as all previous resolutions on the area - if all these resolutions are implemented then there will be much less support or even need for an armed wing of Hizbollah (who, let us not forget, have done a lot of socially good things for the Lebanese).

Minimum - Israel should withdraw to it's internationally recognised borders (and therefore cease being an occupying power) and Palestinian refugees should be given the right to return - this is just civil and humanitarian.

It is actually because Israel has been intransigent about the occupation and it's treatment of Palestinians that has fed the growth of the groups it so readily calls 'terrorists'.

Cheers,
Shafique

Great post Shafique. I think your solution sounds like a good one. Too bad Israel doesn't seem to agree to moving to the internationally agreed borders or letting Palestinians return.

shafique wrote:I do think that resolution 1559 should be implemented - Hizbollah should be disarmed.

However, I think that this should be done at the same time as all previous resolutions on the area - if all these resolutions are implemented then there will be much less support or even need for an armed wing of Hizbollah (who, let us not forget, have done a lot of socially good things for the CHIITES ).

Minimum - Israel should withdraw to it's internationally recognised borders (and therefore cease being an occupying power) and Palestinian refugees should be given the right to return - this is just civil and humanitarian.

It is actually because Israel has been intransigent about the occupation and it's treatment of Palestinians that has fed the growth of the groups it so readily calls 'terrorists'.

Cheers,
Shafique

Fixed

Nick,

Yes, Hizbollah are Shia muslims (which I am not by the way).

When Israel invaded Lebanon 20 years ago, they just walked by the UN forces there and walked over the pitiful excuse for a Lebanese army. The result was a massacre of Palestinians in Sabra and Shatilla and then years of civil war where thousands died.

Hizbollah decided to arm themselves and not let a situation where Israel could walk in unheeded again. They fought a guerilla campaign against the occupying Israelis and eventually forced them out in 2000. They forced Israel to exchange prisoners that were languishing in Israeli jails.

The issue is that these facts mean that they are only Arab/Muslim group that has managed to a. push the Israeli military back out of occupation and b. have managed to negotiate the freedom of prisoners held in Israeli prisons.

You are right though - the fact that these fighters are Shia is sending shivers down the spines of people in Riyadh, Washington and Tel Aviv. Actions speak louder than words. Hizbollah attacked military targets after Israel started pounding Gaza - they did not fire on civilians until Israel started pounding on Civilians in Lebanon.

My view is that Druze, Christian and Sunni Lebanese all would rather have a strong Lebanese army and not be in a position of being subservient to a military attack from Israel. The tragedy is that it has taken a Shia group to organise themselves and offer Israel any resistance.

The Israeli reaction, in my mind, is a sign of their realisation that there are groups now strong enough to attack their MILITARY and remove this smokescreen they kept throwing up that their 'enemies' are terrorists rather than occupied people fighting against violators of international law.

It's been said before - but the point bears repeating. The reaction of Israel to suicide bombings of civilians was nothing compared to the reaction to the capture of 3 (!!) soldiers.

Israel is hoping against hope that it can re-ignite Lebanese civil strife and set Sunni against Shia, Christian against Muslim etc as it did 20 years ago. I'm not sure that they won't suceed. But for now, my Christian Lebanese colleagues are all saying that the suffering their families are enduring is due to Israeli aggression and they are not blaming Hizbollah for the destruction.

Cheers,
Shafique

Well, maybe some people support retaliation against Israel above peace and stability in their country. That is how some Lebanese seem to be taking this. If Hizbollah hadn't done what it did, Lebanon would not be destroyed right now.

kanelli, its known to everyone that Israel was going to do this 2 month from now already ...its on the news... and they did what they did to get rid of hezzbullah and start a new mideast..AS IF

If they did take control you may end up with a much larger military operation against your country to displace them .... think Iraq

Then we will have the start of WW3 people. Wouldn't that be lovely?

Slightly off topic but does anyone start to feel unsafe being in the ME even though you are not close to Lebanon in Dubai? I mean the Saudi's have been talking about going to war today.

kanelli wrote:Then we will have the start of WW3 people. Wouldn't that be lovely?

it is very close ... US injustice and invading is turning the world into anti US group and soon people will rise and decide that they are not taking US Sh!t anymore .. US and ISRAEL are leading the world to hardbottom.

Kanelli,

There is also security and national identity to go along with peace and stability.

To take an extreme example, when Germany occupied France some French took the view that peace and stability was better than fighting for freedom, others did not.

The chain of events actually leads back to the bombing of the family in Gaza, Hamas breaking the ceasefire and capturing the soldier, the disproportionate attack on Gaza and refusal to trade in prisoners.

Given the continuing incarceration of Palestinians and Lebanese in Israel, Hizbollah in an act of solidarity with Palestinians attacked soldiers and captured 2 - and immediately called for an exchange of prisoners.

Israel did not have to bomb the hell out of Lebanon or even Gaza.

Blaming Hizbollah is a little rich for many people - yes Israel is a bully and yes Israel will be backed by the US when it's actions are clearly killing women and children (and UN peacekeepers! and their rescuers!), but to 'blame' the Hizbollah for this is unfair, I would argue.

I suspect you would never blame a wife for 'provoking' her husband by talking back or slapping him resulting in him beating her into a broken mess. Or perhaps some people would say it is the woman's fault?? Why not live in 'peace and stability' and not provoke her husband?

Just a thought.

Cheers,
Shafique

kanelli wrote:Then we will have the start of WW3 people. Wouldn't that be lovely?

Lovely??!!! War means loss of time , money and people. Nothing good has ever come out of war. It should be avoided at all costs.

Eros wrote:

kanelli wrote:Then we will have the start of WW3 people. Wouldn't that be lovely?

Lovely??!!! War means loss of time , money and people. Nothing good has ever come out of war. It should be avoided at all costs.

Eros meet sarcasm, sarcasm meet Eros

Nick81 wrote:

Eros wrote:

kanelli wrote:Then we will have the start of WW3 people. Wouldn't that be lovely?

Lovely??!!! War means loss of time , money and people. Nothing good has ever come out of war. It should be avoided at all costs.

Eros meet sarcasm, sarcasm meet Eros

shafique wrote:Kanelli,
I suspect you would never blame a wife for 'provoking' her husband by talking back or slapping him resulting in him beating her into a broken mess. Or perhaps some people would say it is the woman's fault?? Why not live in 'peace and stability' and not provoke her husband?

Just a thought.

Cheers,
Shafique

Excellent post Shaf, I’m really curious to how Kanelli will answer your very accurate analogy.

Btw thank you both Shaf, Kanelli and the bulk of posters on this thread for helping to educate and openly debate about a very serious issue.

Kanelli over to you for a rebutal

No offense but actually I don't think that's a very good comparison at all. 1st off sad on the wife for a deliverate attempt to provoke the husband, 2nd for a man to react in such a way in retaliation just goes to show weakness of character as he's not big or strong rnough to ignore it and walk away. Also would go to prove just how bullish men can be.