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http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/africa/07 ... index.html

I already knew about female circumcision (better called female genital mutilation) but this was definitely news for me...

Whenever I start having faith in humanity I get to see stuff like that and just wonder how this can be allowed. The lives these women have to lead in order not to give men boners. It's always women who have to pay the price of ignorance and practices who should have never survived the end of the Dark Ages.

ooh my god thats really bad... why do women have to pay for men's instincts ?? Rape ..war... what are we getting from men ? A world ruled by women will be a better place as proved by history

just curious, can you educate me on this history?

yes my dear ... Nefertiti and cleopatra in ancient egypt... Balkis...in old ages god was a Female ... the world was much better... now men...they want war.."boys and their toys" and weapons of mass destruction ...Alot of men rape women all over the world .. and the woman must iron her Breast and wear a veil to cover her body and face so men dont follow their animal instinct and rape her... Men Need decpline

Corcovado wrote:yes my dear ... Nefertiti and cleopatra in ancient egypt... Balkis...in old ages god was a woman ... the world was much better... now men...they want war.."boys and their toys" and weapons of mass destruction ...Alot of men rape women all over the world .. and the woman must iron her chest and wear a veil to cover her body and face so men dont follow their animal instinct and rape her... Men Need decpline

I am not so sure about that... It's just too easy of an answer. What is happening in the world today, the situation of women is just a result of centuries of Masculinity being a synonym of power and domination. Whether it's in the government, in the work place, in the household. This is just the way it has been for a long, long time.

It's just too easy to say that if we inverted roles right away, the world would be a better place. Sure RIGHT NOW, women are generally considered to be pacifists, their "weakness" gives the idea that all type of violence is only associated to men. But it's Power that should be analyzed. It is Power that corrupts. It is Power that make so many women live in the shadows of men. Invert the roles and we would end up with the opposite. We'd still have wars with just a different chain of command. Women giving the orders and men on the battleground.

The one thing we CAN do, is just put an end to all the ignorance and barbaric practices that are still found in the world. And introduce in society, ways of reducing and hopefully end someday the image of the woman as an inferior being.

These things always seem to happen in Africa, I wonder why? Education, or lack thereof perhaps?

I don't want to start a male vs female debate, but the history I know, Men have done more good for the world then there female counterparts and there are probab;y reasons for this. However I do fully believe there have been some great females, but the majority of history books points to man. Few examples; Jesus, Prophet Muhammad, Ghandi, Galileo, Einstein, Bill Gates the philanthropist, Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King etc etc... of course there are just as many examples of evil men anyhoo, my two cents

tdot wrote:I don't want to start a male vs female debate, but the history I know, Men have done more good for the world then there female counterparts and there are probab;y reasons for this. However I do fully believe there have been some great females, but the majority of history books points to man. Few examples; Jesus, Prophet Muhammad, Ghandi, Galileo, Einstein, Bill Gates the philanthropist, Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King etc etc... of course there are just as many examples of evil men anyhoo, my two cents

*points at previous post*

Power... Who got all privileges during all these centuries? Who got all type of education? Were women even allowed to open their mouth a few centuries ago in some countries without getting burned at the stake?

Yes, but it has always been the women who have suffered for what the MEN believe in. War is one major example. women have always suffered as a result of war.

Nick81 wrote:
*points at previous post*

Power... Who got all privileges during all these centuries? Who got all type of education? Were women even allowed to open their mouth a few centuries ago in some countries without getting burned at the stake?

This is still the case in some Muslim cultures, is it not? The male is still the Premo in the family.

yorky500 wrote:These things always seem to happen in Africa, I wonder why? Education, or lack thereof perhaps?

mixture of lack of education and capitalism

GREED is more like it.

Mary.. Evita ..Joan of Arc..Indira Gandhi..Sammuramat
Assyrian Queen..Zenobia

yorky500 wrote:

Nick81 wrote:
*points at previous post*

Power... Who got all privileges during all these centuries? Who got all type of education? Were women even allowed to open their mouth a few centuries ago in some countries without getting burned at the stake?

This is still the case in some Muslim cultures, is it not? The male is still the Premo in the family.

There is no such thing as "muslim culture". You either live the life or you don't. I agree that these practices of belittling woman happen in 3rd world countries but in true Islam woman are considered very important and should be treated in that manner. It has nothing to do with being muslim, its typically comes down to how you were brought up.

yorky500 wrote:GREED is more like it.

Capitalism creates GREED

tdot wrote:

yorky500 wrote:

Nick81 wrote:
*points at previous post*

Power... Who got all privileges during all these centuries? Who got all type of education? Were women even allowed to open their mouth a few centuries ago in some countries without getting burned at the stake?

This is still the case in some Muslim cultures, is it not? The male is still the Premo in the family.

There is no such thing as "muslim culture". You either live the life or you don't. I agree that these practices of belittling woman happen in 3rd world countries but in true Islam woman are considered very important and should be treated in that manner. It has nothing to do with being muslim, its typically comes down to how you were brought up.

True. One shouldn't generalize. I have seen, met practicing Muslims who respected women more than any Westerner. A veil doesn't mean anything. It might very well be the woman's choice to wear it. It doesn't mean I agree with it but it hardly has anything to do with the issue at hand.

tdot wrote:

yorky500 wrote:GREED is more like it.

Capitalism creates GREED

So true sooo true

This is beyong disguting. Its is so reprehensible.

if they are doing that because of rapist as the have mentioned, then I think they should start ironing the potential rapist's thingy

yorky500 wrote:

Nick81 wrote:

This is still the case in some Muslim cultures, is it not? The male is still the Premo in the family.

On what basis have you made such assumptions!! Hollywood movies?!

You will be more than surprised if you would come to know how women are being treated in our cultures... many westreners were stunned when they saw the reality.

Well for the matter of fact .. in many cases.. women are the boss here even if u didnt see it ... right liban ?

Even if Islam claims to treat women very well, the fact remains that the Quran says that women must cover themselves to hide their attributes from men who might take advantage. On the one hand there are good intentions behind that, but on the other hand it makes it acceptable for men to disrespect women who are not covered. The women are made responsible for men's bad behaviour, which is wrong. This is exactly the same kind of thing as female circumscision and breast ironing - the men are not held accountable for their sexual deviance and lack of respect for women. Patriarchal cultures around the world have imposed many restrictions on women, whereas men have not faced such radical practices and unequal treatment under matriarchal societies (to my knowledge). Perhaps Corcovado knows more about that.

Nick81 wrote:
I already knew about female circumcision (better called female genital mutilation) but this was definitely news for me...

omg !!

damn female circumsicion, is that even physically possible !!
what the hell do they circumsize ?? i really wanna know.

where and why do they do it

xibit wrote:

Nick81 wrote:
I already knew about female circumcision (better called female genital mutilation) but this was definitely news for me...

omg !!

damn female circumsicion, is that even physically possible !!
what the hell do they circumsize ?? i really wanna know.

where and why do they do it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_circumcision

^^ damn this is some new and ing info for me. ppl need education

Uhhh.... This crap and femal circumcision have NOTHING to do with Islam.

kanelli wrote:Even if Islam claims to treat women very well, the fact remains that the Quran says that women must cover themselves to hide their attributes from men who might take advantage. On the one hand there are good intentions behind that, but on the other hand it makes it acceptable for men to disrespect women who are not covered. The women are made responsible for men's bad behaviour, which is wrong. This is exactly the same kind of thing as female circumscision and breast ironing - the men are not held accountable for their fun deviance and lack of respect for women. Patriarchal cultures around the world have imposed many restrictions on women, whereas men have not faced such radical practices and unequal treatment under matriarchal societies (to my knowledge). Perhaps Corcovado knows more about that.

Kanelli ur so right .. in a world ful of ignorance.. male deminated the society.. and treated women as objects and some cultures and religions emphisized on this...leaving women helpless and used as breeding machines only... in ancient times women ruled.. and were warriors and queens...and they were worshiped ..it was a female society ... it was a better society ...

I agree Corcovado

Again this is too easy of an answer.

The best thing that could happen in the world today is divide power EQUALLY between men and women, and FINALLY dissociate politics and religion.

I have encountered local ladies who are quite liberated in their actions and thinking however are unable to 'be seen' out without their abaya and sheyla as they are afraid that they will be seen to be 'of loose morals' by the local men here.

However, I see numerous local men who are perfectly willing to dress in western style, including revealing shorts and t-shirts, without feeling any sense of 'loose morals'. I have lost count of the number of times I have seen a man dressed this way, whilst his wife walks alongside him completely covered.

It just smacks of hypocritical double standards to me...



Knight

Dubai Knight wrote:I have encountered local ladies who are quite liberated in their actions and thinking however are unable to 'be seen' out without their abaya and sheyla as they are afraid that they will be seen to be 'of loose morals' by the local men here.

However, I see numerous local men who are perfectly willing to dress in western style, including revealing shorts and t-shirts, without feeling any sense of 'loose morals'. I have lost count of the number of times I have seen a man dressed this way, whilst his wife walks alongside him completely covered.

It just smacks of hypocritical double standards to me...



Knight

Exactly. I made the same observation in another thread.