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U.S. orders 'values training' for troops in Iraq
Move comes amid allegations Marines killed civilians in Haditha

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- The U.S. military chief in Iraq Thursday ordered troops to undergo fresh training in legal, moral and ethical standards for the battlefield, in response to what the mayor of Haditha has called a "day of catastrophe."

A military source said it was evidence, including death certificates, indicating that many of the 24 civilians had been shot at close range that led to a full-scale criminal probe into the alleged massacre in March.(Watch for the new details revealed in the coroner's report -- 2:03)

CNN (Coverup News Network) skips to mention that these troops (occupiers) raided three houses and executed innocent women and children in point blank range.

What do these troops get for doing this? They attend a class on ethics.

For a start your poll is biased and so is your opinion.

Well, either it was deliberate or an accident. Doesn't get any simpler Choc.

Your second choice on the poll is not exactly fair now is it? You might as well just have the one choice. At least make that fair then I might have a bit more respect for your post.

Fair enough.

Make a suggestion.

The same thing happened in Vietnam. You send people over to kill people then they freak out when their friends get blown up and their God in their Bible repeatedly tells them to massacre every man woman and child of the infidel village what do you expect?

"What do these troops get for doing this? They attend a class on ethics"

I don't think that tells the whole story. What happens is they investigate and prosecute those responsible. And that is what they have said will happen. The accusations are appalling and have shocked America as well as causing outrage in Iraq. But no-one has suggested (apart from you) that a class in ethics will be the only response.

I have altered your post Venice to give a proper balanced viewpoint and poll.

Some of us have been down this road, and much has been achieved here in the last few months, in particular between many of us Forumers.

I have no intention of allowing it to go back there.

Yes i can do this, and i felt it was a better option than letting this go to FC, or end up being locked or deleted.

No Problem. This still works.

arniegang wrote:
Some of us have been down this road, and much has been achieved here in the last few months, in particular between many of us Forumers.

I have no intention of allowing it to go back there.

BTW, What are you talking about? And if you are trying to make a point, there's no need to be ambiguous.

There was a time when a some of us couldn't have a serious debate about certain subjects without it getting abusive and personal.

Hopefully those days are gone, and things are much better here.

Efforts have been made by everyone and i am sure i can speak for many in saying things are more peaceful and friendlier here.

And we can discuss controversial topics here without it degenerating into a fight and abusive.

Thank you for your co-operation Venice.

Thats fine, but dont get me wrong. I even said earlier in the post, replying to Choc. If you think this isn't fair, then make a suggestion.

I'm not here to start a propaganda war.

No problem as a relative recent poster, you wouldn't have been aware

When I posted the story of american Soliders excuting Iraqi WOman and children point blank...everybody accused me of posting propoganda and lies, but I guess what I posted 2 months ago is coming out as the truth...

Sometimes, you have to give the readers the option to decide if they think this is true or not. The best thing to do is post the facts. I guess things have a way of balancing out like this.

It is a giant shame what is happening in Iraq.

But let me say that cover-ups are not unheard of. Militaries from all over the world cover-up their actions. Usually quite stupidly, like in this case.

Nobody ever said that the US high command encourages these acts, but I beleive they are not doing enough to stop them. You can't really be surprised when the US army drafts its fighters from the ghettos on inner city America.... It is bound to happen.

Sad, very sad for my poor Iraqi brothers. May they see better days soon.

Oh and I second Arnie in saying, lets not make this into a flame war.

Chocoholic wrote:For a start your poll is biased and so is your opinion.

Biased opinions come actually from CNN and similar sources of media.

Now, a bunch of soldiers enter a house and kill elderly, children and toddlers with granades and bullets. They repeat the same with 3 houses. What else do we need to see to call it a masacre.

The CNN, however, questions: "was this really a masacre"? Then, we listen to this outspoken CNN reporter talking about how much danger these soldiers face, and justifying that they just "snapped" .....yes ... snapped!!! Let's allow anybody to snap then!!!

And yes, attending a class will be pretty much it. Soldiers have been already cleared in "Ishaqi" killings, were one of the killed children was 6 months old.

MS wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:For a start your poll is biased and so is your opinion.

Biased opinions come actually from CNN and similar sources of media.

Now, a bunch of soldiers enter a house and kill elderly, children and toddlers with granades and bullets. They repeat the same with 3 houses. What else do we need to see to call it a masacre.

The CNN, however, questions: "was this really a masacre"? Then, we listen to this outspoken CNN reporter talking about how much danger these soldiers face, and justifying that they just "snapped" .....yes ... snapped!!! Let's allow anybody to snap then!!!

And yes, attending a class will be pretty much it. Soldiers have been already cleared in "Ishaqi" killings, were one of the killed children was 6 months old.

Heh, she's biased herself can't you see that?

Acebravo wrote:Heh, she's biased herself can't you see that?

I don't know her personally, but if the only thing she can say about the Haditha massacre is that the poll and the opinion are biased, then she is biased ...big time.

Don't you know it's rude to talk about and brand someone without letting them have their say?

The whole thing is a complete tragedy of gigantic proportions! The whole invasion of Iraq was uncalled for, not that Acebravo is interested in my opinion here, he's already branded me biased without bothering to hear my opinion.

I don't like CNN and I don't like FOX as they do portray one sided views on things.

Of course there needs to be a total investigation to find out what happened, as the whole thing is totally unaceptable.

Sadly I suspect none of us here have ever been to a war zone therefore none of us can ever imagine what it's like on either side. With regard to the comments about snapping, this is nothing new in the military. Soliders become jumpy and tigger happy, most of them are just ignorant and can't tell the difference between good and bad, become yes sir men and go nuts.

American airforce pilots were given speed during the first Gulf War to heighten their senses, but it makes them indifferent to things, jumpy and trigger happy, most of the friendly fire accidents were caused by this.

It's all wrong but there is a bigger picture. I'd like to see other Middle Eastern Countries getting in there and offering their help, where are these people? Where is their assistance in the situation? Nowhere to be seen because they're all pandering to Bush's every whim that's where!

Now you two can put up and shut up. And I don't appreciate rude, finger pointing PM's and as MS rightly said you don't know me from Adam so who are YOU yo judge ME!

There is no excuse for what happened in Haditha, and revenge is the worst excuse. It's a tragedy that innocents were killed, but if this story is accurate, then there were many people in that town who were also guilty of horrible things:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0, ... 69,00.html

Chocoholic wrote:There is no excuse for what happened in Haditha, and revenge is the worst excuse. It's a tragedy that innocents were killed, but if this story is accurate, then there were many people in that town who were also guilty of horrible things:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0, ... 69,00.html

It's hard for you, you have to bring up the other side as an indirect execuse for your brothers (american and brits) atrocities....

I could fill this whole forum with links about american crimes against humanity, but will only give you 2 links that ought to shut you up!

http://www.robert-fisk.com/articles579.htm

http://iraqwar.mirror-world.ru/article/90340

Killing innocent civilaisn is nothing new to the criminal americans, they have done it repeatedly in the past and are capable of doing it again, for your information, americans are the ones who taught the world how to behead enemies buy beheading Vietcong fighters...I have pictures to prove that......the brits are not too far behind their brothers the americans, they have their share of crimes against humanity....I call england the scanvenger empire!

It is quite ing what the Americas did in countries like Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos (to name a few).

The British have done similar things in India for example.

I am not attacking anyone here, but it is sickening all this Haditha story. There are also other horror stories from American / British imperialist renegade actions in Iraq and Afganistan....

Acebravo,

The fact that you're unwilling to look at others opinions just shows how ignorant and arragant you are yourself. There is no justification for what happened, I have made that perfectly clear, you're obviously incapable of seeing that.

And your reaction to the article that I posted was exactly as I expected you to react that of course the people in that town are all innocent and can never have possibly done anything wrong to anyone else. Now who's biased and viewing the world through rose tinted glasses.

Chocoholic wrote:rose tinted glasses.

I doubt Acebravo wears those.... HP is the only male in this forum to wear pinkish sunglasses

Yeah I know Liban. But at least you're willing to listen to what I have to say and don't judge me for it and you have a much more open mind as well.

It's a difficult situation, the US and UK need to get out of there. But interestingly I see Acebravo and MS haven't bothered to comment on Middle Eastern countries helping out, policing and getting involved, what's yuor take matey? Interested to hear it Liban.

Acebravo, i have deleted your post where i feel you were rude and offensive and personal to another forumer.

Post and be contraversial by all means, but leave out the personals please.

Chocoholic wrote:Acebravo,

The fact that you're unwilling to look at others opinions just shows how ignorant and arragant you are yourself. There is no justification for what happened, I have made that perfectly clear, you're obviously incapable of seeing that.

And your reaction to the article that I posted was exactly as I expected you to react that of course the people in that town are all innocent and can never have possibly done anything wrong to anyone else. Now who's biased and viewing the world through rose tinted glasses.

Keep chasing your tail...

arniegang wrote:Acebravo, i have deleted your post where i feel you were rude and offensive and personal to another forumer.

Post and be contraversial by all means, but leave out the personals please.

Acebravo was totally correct. We try hard to be reasonable. The only thing we find is arrogance and stupidity. There was no need to remove the post.

Choco, you say Liabn is reasonable. You should go back to posts a couple of months old when you were only swearing at him.