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I love my country but I can't even feel sad these days when I see stuff like that. It's all going down the drain.

Corruption, political issues, religious issues... People leaving the country in hordes, the youth turning their back on the country not having plans of ever coming back. *sigh*

I sympathise with you It must be depressing to see the youth leaving for greener pastures.

What do you expect the youth to do? When there are jobs in Lebanon that pay well and politicians that have the intelligence above that of a child then people will stay.

For me, I love to visit Lebanon, but it will take a lot for me to live there!

But if everyone leaves, especially the young and educated, who is left there to help make the country better?

kanelli wrote:But if everyone leaves, especially the young and educated, who is left there to help make the country better?

the syrians ha ha ha

kanelli wrote:But if everyone leaves, especially the young and educated, who is left there to help make the country better?

And thats the problem.

Similar to the brain drain in Canada of talent to the US or closer to home for us, people leaving Montreal for Toronto....

bah it's hard to be optimistic about the whole situation in Lebanon these days... I wish the problem was only limited to the Syrians. Or even Israel. Christians fight among each others. Muslim fight among each others (which is actually what prevents Lebanon from becoming an Islamic country and dooming the Christian minority...) And of course, Christians will never unite with Muslims for the good of the country and vice verca.

People are still puppets following party leaders. 21 years of civil war. Families decimated. Massacres commited. And we still haven't learned a thing.

1 million and a half stood together when Rafic Hariri was murdered. They even made an oath to stand united for the country. I was in L.A. at the time. I never believed in this. Sure it must've been a beautiful sight. But I lost my faith in the Lebanese population a looooooong time ago. And the events that followed just proved that I was right all along. Christian jackasses still want to follow a Christian leader as if he was the reincarnation of Jesus Christ. Same with Muslims.

Is it so hard to find a compromise between Islam and Christianity? Why do Muslims extremists find it necessary to burn tyres and attack Christian youngsters in one of Lebanon's street famous for its bars/clubs? Is it some kind of frustration? Well if it's so hard following your beliefs, just give up! Don't take it out on innocent ppl! I am sure not going to stop drinking and getting laid before marriage so that I don't offense those ****ers who think they have a right to dictate their beliefs!

I am sorry but Lebanon has just been trouble since its inception, it should be annexed to syria and thus assimilate with it all this religious tension.

Not gonna happen. Too much anti-Syrian racism (justified in some cases) and well this won't solve the tension between Christians and Muslims. They simply cannot coexist. People in the M-E are too dumb to make a distinction between politics and religion. I am not even a practicing Christian but am shocked at what people have reduced religion to...

Liban wrote:

kanelli wrote:But if everyone leaves, especially the young and educated, who is left there to help make the country better?

And thats the problem.

Similar to the brain drain in Canada of talent to the US or closer to home for us, people leaving Montreal for Toronto....

Exactly

I completely agree that there is too much division amongst the people in the Middle East, not just Lebanon. The lack of separation between religion and politics is certainly one of the main issues.

Someone once told me that if Islam is to be applied to the letter, it HAS to be part of the country's politics. I never bothered to verify this. Is this true? Because if this is the case then I really don't see how we'll ever find a solution to this problem.

By the way, if Christianism was applied to the letter too, things wouldn't be any easier... Just wanted to point out that this is not limited to one religion.

Yes Nick, you are correct.

Any religion that is closely tied with politics means disaster - just look at history.

MaaaD wrote:I am sorry but Lebanon has just been trouble since its inception, it should be annexed to syria and thus assimilate with it all this religious tension.

You know little of Lebanon then to make such a comment.

You think Syria doesn't have religious tension? The only thing holding Syria together is the Baath party. If that goes, Syria will descent into the anarchy that plagued Lebanon in the 80s and that plagues Iraq today. The only solution is a pan-Arab nation that will be economically, politically, and militarly strong enough to address our problems.

Liban wrote:

MaaaD wrote:I am sorry but Lebanon has just been trouble since its inception, it should be annexed to syria and thus assimilate with it all this religious tension.

You know little of Lebanon then to make such a comment.

You think Syria doesn't have religious tension? The only thing holding Syria together is the Baath party. If that goes, Syria will descent into the anarchy that plagued Lebanon in the 80s and that plagues Iraq today. The only solution is a pan-Arab nation that will be economically, politically, and militarly strong enough to address our problems.

And how many decades do you think that would take Liban? Do you think a giant Islamic nation would get along well with the rest of the world, which is mainly secular, or would that Islamic block be calling for a religious war against the non-believers? It would be a disaster in my opinion.

Kanelli, I never referred to an Islamic nation in my previus post. I referred to an Arab Nation. Not sure why you associate Arabs to Islam when there are millions of Christian and Jewish Arabs

I think that it is possible to have a secular Arab Nation one day in the future.

Arab Nationalism was not religiously based at all at one point under Nasser, Gadhafi (though he is now a clown), Hussein, Assad, and co. Only with poverty, education (lack thereof), American subversion, etc. has this nationalism turned religious.

Once the wealth flows in this will abate.

FYI, did you know that the Egypt of the 50s of Nasser was more educated, powerful, rich, and developped than today's?

Did you know that the Iraq of tha first Baath (pre-Hussein) of the 60s and 70s was on par with Portugal and Spain?

Did you know that Lebanon of the 50s and 60s was the country of the jet set and rich and famous? It was a first world country compared to Switzerland and Paris at the time.

Poverty brings in religious fanaticism as the only PERCEIVED way out. Bring back the wealth the Arabs once held and this will all vanish.

That's true, poverty and lack of education for the masses, not just those who can afford it - are major causes of political and social strife.

I really can't see how you would be optimistic about a secular Arab nation - just look at what is going on right now! No one is getting along - everyone is sticking to their own group and trying to exert their power to dominate over another. I'm not sure, but isn't the majority of the Arab world actually Muslim of some sect or another? How easy will it be for non-Muslim Arabs to identify with Muslim Arabs when there is much more to relations that just having an Arab bloodline?

Everyone sticks to his own group because of the perceived weakness of the general government to protect them.

When King Faysal was promised an Arab Nation with its capital in Damascus, there were all Arabs of all kinds of faiths living in peice.

The Arabs lived for the most part at peace with their brothers of differents faiths for many years.

Yes there were squirmished but these were mostly vendetta types (don't forget the Sicilians have had this for centuries and they are mostly of Arab descent).

Some of my best Arab friends are not Muslim and I even was friends with some Jewish Arabs in the past. Our common culture, heritage, and language is what binds us. Religion complements us.

Canadians or Americans have all kinds of religions and they co-exist. Why is it so hard for people to see that with us Arabs when all our past points to that capability?

We are all human.

There is simply put, NO chance of this ever happening.

Some Christian "supermacists" in Lebanon don't even consider themselves Arabs! The fools claim they are Phoenicians!

I don't think we'll live enough to see united Arab nations.

Nick81 wrote:There is simply put, NO chance of this ever happening.

Some Christian "supermacists" in Lebanon don't even consider themselves Arabs! The fools claim they are Phoenicians!

I don't think we'll live enough to see united Arab nations.

Well idiots exist all over the place. Some supremicists in Egypt claim to be descendants of the Pharoas and some in Morocco claim to be European Spaniards that just speak Arabic...

We may not see it in our lifetime but it will happen.

The GCC will become one in our lifetime and I can forsee a Maghreb Bloc perhapes in our old age. There shall be a Levant bloc soon I beleive. Only after these 3 main blocks are formed can the Arabs thing of uniting completly.

Liban wrote:Everyone sticks to his own group because of the perceived weakness of the general government to protect them.

When King Faysal was promised an Arab Nation with its capital in Damascus, there were all Arabs of all kinds of faiths living in peice.

The Arabs lived for the most part at peace with their brothers of differents faiths for many years.

Yes there were squirmished but these were mostly vendetta types (don't forget the Sicilians have had this for centuries and they are mostly of Arab descent).

Some of my best Arab friends are not Muslim and I even was friends with some Jewish Arabs in the past. Our common culture, heritage, and language is what binds us. Religion complements us.

Canadians or Americans have all kinds of religions and they co-exist. Why is it so hard for people to see that with us Arabs when all our past points to that capability?

We are all human.

Well, I'm reading a book on Arab history, so I should have more knowledge on the subject soon. It is a large book, so lots of reading

I really have my doubts about any unity after looking at the current state of affairs in the Middle East, sorry.

kanelli wrote:
Well, I'm reading a book on Arab history, so I should have more knowledge on the subject soon. It is a large book, so lots of reading

I really have my doubts about any unity after looking at the current state of affairs in the Middle East, sorry.

Arab history is a long one... Good reading

The current state of affairs is due not to Arab people but their so-called leaders. Unity is possible but only when the masses take the lead...

Canadians or Americans have all kinds of religions and they co-exist. Why is it so hard for people to see that with us Arabs when all our past points to that capability?

We are all human.[/quote]

because some fanatics did and do things that put u all in a bad light. and generally ppl r too narrowminded and stupid to think further. i personally know several ppl who think arab=muslim and that all arabs are terrorists, beat to death ur wives, lock them in the house and treat them like dogs, and u probably all stinck and r undereducated...no comment

it is ur turn to be the bad guys, just as is happend not long ago with communist russians, naczi germans, etc. anyway, i wrote about this and if im not mistaken u posted an answer.

^ um is that you in your avatar?

kanelli wrote:That's true, poverty and lack of education for the masses, not just those who can afford it - are major causes of political and social strife.

I really can't see how you would be optimistic about a secular Arab nation - just look at what is going on right now! No one is getting along - everyone is sticking to their own group and trying to exert their power to dominate over another. I'm not sure, but isn't the majority of the Arab world actually Muslim of some sect or another? How easy will it be for non-Muslim Arabs to identify with Muslim Arabs when there is much more to relations that just having an Arab bloodline?

they have differences and caracteristics for every country, just like us, europeans r not the same. maybe those gaps r not as obvious as between european nations, but they exist.
i think the keyword here should be coexistence, not becoming the same.

Nick81 wrote:^ um is that you in your avatar?

no, my neighbor

I am in love

raidah wrote:Canadians or Americans have all kinds of religions and they co-exist. Why is it so hard for people to see that with us Arabs when all our past points to that capability?

We are all human.

because some fanatics did and do things that put u all in a bad light. and generally ppl r too narrowminded and stupid to think further. i personally know several ppl who think arab=muslim and that all arabs are terrorists, beat to death ur wives, lock them in the house and treat them like dogs, and u probably all stinck and r undereducated...no comment

it is ur turn to be the bad guys, just as is happend not long ago with communist russians, naczi germans, etc. anyway, i wrote about this and if im not mistaken u posted an answer.[/quote]

Well some extreme Muslims have done all of those things that you mention and only the sensational news makes into the media - so yes, there are a lot of people who stereotype about Islam. The same thing can be said for some Muslim's views about North America and Europe etc. They might think that countries in those regions are godless, corrupt, trashy etc. People just love to stereotype

kanelli wrote:

raidah wrote:Canadians or Americans have all kinds of religions and they co-exist. Why is it so hard for people to see that with us Arabs when all our past points to that capability?

We are all human.

because some fanatics did and do things that put u all in a bad light. and generally ppl r too narrowminded and stupid to think further. i personally know several ppl who think arab=muslim and that all arabs are terrorists, beat to death ur wives, lock them in the house and treat them like dogs, and u probably all stinck and r undereducated...no comment

it is ur turn to be the bad guys, just as is happend not long ago with communist russians, naczi germans, etc. anyway, i wrote about this and if im not mistaken u posted an answer.

Well some extreme Muslims have done all of those things that you mention and only the sensational news makes into the media - so yes, there are a lot of people who stereotype about Islam. The same thing can be said for some Muslim's views about North America and Europe etc. They might think that countries in those regions are godless, corrupt, trashy etc. People just love to stereotype [/quote]

ur right, some, actually many of them did and do those things. my point is, that to be unhuman in anyway with another person, does not require to belong to one certain nation. because during the history of humanity, almost all nations or groups have committed unforgivable things to others.

Very true raidah.