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Hey Guys,
were I can find the best "Foie Gra" in Dubai? Any suggestion? :

Thanks in advance

are you talking about fois gras?????the french speciality???

irish vanessa wrote:are you talking about fois gras?????the french speciality???

-Yesssssssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry to be a tree hugger, but Fois Gras is awful and contributes to animal cruelty because of the way it's made - awful awful awful!

Sometimes they have some wonderful pan-fried fois gras at Verre at the Hilton.
Try following it up with some lovely white veal.

The next time you order your 'delicacy' think about this:

The ducks and geese force-fed for foie gras are compelled to consume much more high-energy food—mostly corn—than they would eat voluntarily. This damages their liver and often kills them.

The Scientific Committee on Animal Health and Welfare for the European Union found many examples of abuse as a result of force-feeding, including:

Birds are routinely confined to small cages or crowded pens.

Birds are force-fed tremendous amounts of feed via a 12- to 16-inch plastic or metal tube, which is shoved down their throats and attached to a pressurized pump.

The force-feeding may be performed twice daily for up to two weeks for ducks and three to four times daily, for up to 28 days for geese.

Force-feeding causes the liver to increase in size about 6-10 times compared to the normal size for a bird.

Increased liver size forces the abdomen to expand, which makes moving difficult and painful. An enlarged abdomen increases the risk of damage to the stretched tissue of the lower part of the esophagus.

Force-feeding results in accumulated scar tissue in the esophagus.

The liver can be easily damaged by even minor trauma.

Ducks and geese are social animals who suffer when confined in individual cages. The confinement also can lead to lesions of the sternum and bone fractures, as well as foot injuries from the cage floors. Ducks and geese also suffer when they're not allowed enough water to swim and preen, which they do naturally in the wild.

Veal, also horribly cruel in the way it's produced.

Chocoholic wrote:Veal, also horribly cruel in the way it's produced.

so, r u a vegetarian?

No, but you don't have to be a veggie to care about where your food comes from. I don't really eat red meat, mainly a poultry and fish eater to be honest.

Veal is horrid conditions:
Veal calves are forced to spend their short lives in individual crates that are no more than 30 inches wide and 72 inches long.(6) These crates are designed to prohibit exercise and normal muscle growth in order to produce tender “gourmet” veal. The calves are fed a milk substitute that is purposely low in iron so that they will become anemic and their flesh will stay pale.(7)

Because of these extremely unhealthy living conditions, calves raised for veal are susceptible to a long list of diseases, including chronic pneumonia and diarrhea. A study published in the Journal of Animal Science found that calves who were kept in “smaller housing units” had difficulty keeping themselves clean and had trouble “extending their front legs and changing from a lying to a standing position,” which resulted in joint swelling. It was also determined that stereotypical stress behaviors such as tongue rolling and “sham-chewing” (the act of chewing without food in the mouth) increase when smaller pens were used and as calves got older.


After enduring 12 to 23 weeks in these conditions, these young animals, many of whom can barely walk because of muscle atrophy or sickness, are crowded into metal trucks for transport to the slaughterhouse.(9) On these trucks, they are trampled and suffer from temperature extremes and lack of food, water, and veterinary care.

Choco - the greatest source of animal suffering in terms of meat production is battery farming of chickens for eggs and intensive farming of chickens for their meat.

In the scheme of things, those against animal cruelty and who want to actively campaign against this should direct their wrath at these practices.

(BTW - I'm an unashamed carnivore and like foi gras, but have to say I'm not a great fan of veal, taste wise at least)

Yes, the geese are force fed corn - but I don't think they suffer more than battery chickens do.

(In the UK we bought free range eggs and chickens, btw, but here so far we are buying supermarket eggs which I presume are battery farmed)

As to the original question - sorry I haven't had foi gras here - but it is sold in the big supermarkets, eg Carrefour.

Cheers,
Shafique

Shaf, I agree with you which is why wheneve possible I look for free range products.

You don't have to tell me about battery farming, when my parents took over a small holding in the UK, it had battery chickens! Needless to say we shut it down as it was horrific. Upto 6 chickens in a cage with artificial lighting, never seeing the outside world etc etc. We got rid of the units and had free range chickens, sheep etc. The farm next door was a dairy farm and sheep farm, so I know all about it! Luckily our neighbours were very good to their animals and gave them the best possible care.

But please don't say that Fois Gras and Veal bred animals are any better off, cruetly is cruelty which ever way you look at it. But sadly it will continue as long as ignorant people keep eating the bloody stuff!

I mean seriously why do it? If you know what you eat is causing cruelty and suffering, why carry on doing it? If enough people changed their eating habits and made the industry aware that what they're doing is unacceptable then they would be forced to change their practices. But sadly people are selfish and so long as they can enjoy their 'delicacies' the suffering will continue.

Even animals reared for food still have the right to be treated with dignity and to enjoy what little life they have.

I call it hypocrasy....

Gimme the chicken or steak or fish but damned be those that eat them... Dumb mentality....

Choco, become a vege or stop spouting morals that you clearly do not follow...

Makes no difference Liban and is not hypocrisy. I do my bit! But what I'm saying is these things are an unnecessary cruelty.

I used to be a vegetarian and would gladly be again. I don't willingly eat things I know to cause cruelty, that's the difference.

You don't HAVE to eat Fois Gras, you don't HAVE to eat veal!

I can't find Dolphin friendly tuna, the tins with the special label on, so I've complained to the supermarkets about it. You know you have a damn voice all it takes is to use it, but I guess people are too selfish and ignorant to do so.

Chocoholic wrote:Makes no difference Liban and is not hypocrisy. I do my bit! But what I'm saying is these things are an unnecessary cruelty.

I used to be a vegetarian and would gladly be again. I don't willingly eat things I know to cause cruelty, that's the difference.

You don't HAVE to eat Fois Gras, you don't HAVE to eat veal!

You don't HAVE to eat poultry and fish Choco, but you do...

For health reasons Liban, which by the way are none of your business. But at least what I do eat I know is causing no harm or the best I can do.

At least I don't knowingly or willingly eat something which I know for a fact is the result of weeks or months of cruelty and suffering for an animal - there's a difference.

Hey at least I'm trying! What are you doing?

Chocoholic wrote:For health reasons Liban, which by the way are none of your business. But at least what I do eat I know is causing no harm or the best I can do.

At least I don't knowingly or willingly eat something which I know for a fact is the result of weeks or months of cruelty and suffering for an animal - there's a difference.

Hey at least I'm trying! What are you doing?

Really? Have you ever been to a poultry farm???? Please...

I eat Halal meat. Research how Halal meat comes from the animal and then you question will be answered.

Liban, Go back and read my previous post - my parents used to own a battery chicken farm. I'm a country girl I grew up on a smnall holding and next to a large farm, I've experienced everything there is when it comes to farming animals and slaughtering them. In light of that fact I should be more hardened to it than most, but I'm not.

And sorry to say that the Halal method of slaughtering animals is no better it is actually pretty cruel as the animal does not die instantly, but the heart is left beating to pump the blood out, it's actually pretty sick. Only the main jugular vien is cut, none of the main nerves or spinal cord, so as the animal is fully aware and in pain as it literally bleeds to death - humane? Certainly not!

In slaughter houses for large animals, they are normally electrocuted, or killed using a bolt, which is effectively like a bullet in the brain but the spring loaded metal aparatus shoots out of the bolt gun then retracts itself for multiple use. I and my family were involved in the farming industry for years and we've always had animals, so I'm very aware of the right and wrong way animals should be treated.

I even used to fox hunt, but gave that up once I became aware that it is a cruel sport and not only cruel for the foxes but very bad for the horses involved after witnessing serious injuries and the long term affects it has on them.

You're preaching to the converted.

But you still miss my point completely, which is, if you knowingly eat something which you knowingly is produced through cruelty, then you contribute directly to that cruelty, therefore you're part of the problem, instead of part of the solution.

No-one has to eat this stuff.

Choco - I have to say that I agree with your views, I'm against animal cruelty too.

I've never bought foi gras to cook, but have tried it on company lunches - similarly with veal.

My mother keeps hens in Mauritius, and when we lived in Zimbabwe a while back my family also had goats. I've slaughtered chickens and goats, and have shot game birds. I'm teaching my daughters to have respect for animals and to know where their food comes from.

As for foi gras - the injuries described are less than those we see from intensively farmed chickens for food - genetic monstrosities that grow at incredible rates and have difficulty walking.

The point I was making was that the production of Foi Gras causes less suffering (in terms of numbers etc) than that of general production of eggs and chickens. That doesn't take away the fact that Foi Gras is produced at the expense of geese. There are many who would argue in favour of continuing the production of foi gras.. and for completeness when I have time I'll have a look at what they have to say.

As for veal - it does seem cruel to me, but again I think the chickens have it worse! Liberate the chickens!

I fear it is a lost cause though - people just won't give up their cheap chicken sausages, KFC etc. Free range chicken just tastes so much better, but most people prefer the convenience and cheapness of the battery farmed genetic monsters!

Even if Choco is being hypocritical, the point still stands that animals suffer because humans are trying to maximize their profits when providing us with animal meat and other products. Animals live in crowded and unsanitary conditions, are stressed out, are fed hormones, and are over-fed to grow faster. Some of you likely don't give a thought to where your food comes from, and when you hear stories about it you put your head in the sand or justify it by saying "Well, that's just the way it is - humans are the top of the food chain." The fact is, animals and the environment are suffering terribly! This isn't the old days where there were many small farms and more farmers who raised animals and grew their crops without hormones, over-crowding and pesticides. Only organic farming tries to maintain the healthy and more environmentally-friendly farming standards of the past. If more people paid attention to where their food comes from and the impact it has our health and the animals' and environment's health - then more people would be trying to put an end to factory farming.

I'm vegetarian because I don't like factory farming and I have other ways of obtaining protein than from animal flesh. If an animal doesn't have to die for me to be healthy, then I should take that option. Once in a while, if I am in a place where there isn't a vegetarian option beyond a side salad, I do eat fish. That is a rare happening though. I'm not fully vegan, but might switch to that in the future. In any case, I do my best to buy organic animal products produced by free-range animals (eggs, yogurt, milk, cheese). Unfortunately, Dubai is not the best place for finding such products, but there is a small selection out there in Spinneys, Carrefour, Geant - and don't forget The Organic Food Shop and Cafe in The Greens and Satwa.

you lot will be telling me next i can't go to europe and eat those small birds they catch by putting tar on the branches.

Do not teach me the Halal way of killing an animal.

In this method the animals dies ON THE SPOT. 'Nuff said.

Now I will go have some Veal Parmesan for lunch... YUM YUM...

Choco - one point I disagree with you on is the suffering of an animal slaughtered according to Muslim or Jewish religious law (Halaal, Kosher).

The requirement is that the animal is concious and the jugular only is severed, with spinal column left in-tact.

You state that the animal is still alive and feeling pain under Halaal slaughter, whilst it is not feeling pain when it is electrocuted/stunned.

I'll have to dig out the references, but studies have shown that it is the other way round - it is more humane to slaughter whilst the animal is concious than to stun. It is less pleasant for those looking, as the animal does twitch and writhe when slaughtered under Halaal, but is still when stunned. But from the animal's perspective, there is less suffering if they are NOT stunned.

It basically comes down to what pain/discomfort the animal suffers.

The requirement of a sharp knife means that there is no pain when the throat is cut - a bit like a paper cut doesn't hurt until a few seconds after you have been cut. The incision itself doesn't hurt, but when the nerves register the air etc then a signal is sent to the brain and you 'feel'/experience the pain.

The studies measured brain activity and hence the pain the animal would experience. If there is no brain activity, there is no 'experience' of pain.

Sometimes when one gets up too fast, you can feel a little 'light headed' this is because of a sudden drop in blood flow to the brain, and soon passes. This is also a cause of fainting.

When the main arteries feeding the head are cut, there is immediate - instantaneous - loss of conciousness. The brain goes blank before the pain of the cut can be registered. This is not opinion, but was measured scientifically my monitoring brain activity.

Conversely, a stunned animal is not totallly unconcious - and there was brain activity consistent with fear (and also release of hormones that are consistent with fear - and these hormones to make it to the meat, but not to levels that should be harmful) - but the point here is what does the animal experience.

Overall, therefore, the Jewish and Muslim way of slaughter is actually for the benefit of the animal to the discomfort/detriment of the on-lookers who do see the animal convulse. These convulsions ensure that the blood is expelled from the body and the meat is healthier as a result - (note that animals slaughtered after stunning, still have all the blood drained as they are hung upside down and have the same veins severed).

It is perhaps hard to concede that a writhing slaughtered animal that is completely unconcious and unaware, is more humane than a completely still animal - but the brain activities show that is the case.

Stunning animals causes them distress in their final moments of life. Slaughtering according to Jewish and Muslim laws do not.

Hmm - anyone fancy a juicy steak?

Liban, You obviously don't truly know what happens then! And belive it or not there are people who might know a bit more about it than you.

Shaf, I don't agree with the stunning method, but the bolt method is finite and death is instant.

You'd have to do alot more convincing to prove to me that the Halal/Kosher methods are less harmful as the animal would have to bleed out instantly for there to be no pain which is certainly not the case.

My friend whose a vet certainly doesn't think it's very humane.

Choco - the problem with the bolt method is that if the heart isn't beating, the blood isn't bled out from the carcass as effectively. This makes the meat less safe for consumption.

Note, and confirm this with your vet friend, that a beating heart does not equate pain or conciousness, and a still body does not mean not able to feel pain.

Conciousness can be measured by brain activity - if there is no conciousness then there is no pain.

If a bolt extinguishes conciousness, then you are right there is no pain.

The question comes down to whether severing the jugular vein/artery causes loss of conciousness as effectively as a bolt or no. But from a meat slaughter perspective, quick loss of conciousness and a beating heart leads to healthier meat (and yes, I don't hang game but bleed the game).

Now, either method of slaughtering CAN cause unnecessary pain for the animals if done incorrectly - if the bolt doesn't kill instantaneously, there will be pain and if the jugular veins aren't severed cleanly in one cutting action, there will be pain.

I still maintain that the intention is not to cause the animal harm in the Halal slaughter, and this is achieved.

Have a read of the following pdf:
http://www.oie.int/eng/publicat/RT/2402 ... 89-596.pdf

It has sayings of the Holy Prophet, pbuh, on how we should treat animals and his compassion towards them, as well as the comparison slaughter. The study I was referring to is also referred and dates back to 1978 at the University of Hanover.

Cheers,
Shafique

Shaf, I hear what you're saying. But a few years ago the Farm Animal Welfare Council (FAWC) in the UK called for a ban on the Halal and Kosher methods of slaughter on the advice and evidence of vets that it caused unnecessary suffering.

Plus because sometimes it's carried out in a ritual method and undertaken by people who're not trained slaughterers and where they're doing it in their own homes, the chance that they're not doing it right is massive.

Choco - slaughtering not done properly will cause unnecessary suffering.

I've not seen any evidence that halal or kosher slaughter causes un-necessary suffering, rather the contrary.

Anyway - at least our intentions are aligned, we both agree that animals should suffer the least amount of pain or discomfort when they are being slaughtered.

Sort of coming back to the topic of Foie Gras - the entry in Wikipedia is quite informative:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foie_gras

It gives the views of those in favour and against the production... the birds are free range initially and then are force fed, but the fattening is something that happens in nature and the birds, if feeding is stopped, return to their normal weight.

Therefore the birds are better off than battery farmed chickens, IMHO.

Cheers,
Shafique

Shaf, Sadly many birds bred for Fois Gra never get the chance to be free range, as per the info I put up earlier.

I agree with Choco, if more people try to do the same as choco does then I think animals in the farms will be treated a lot better. But again, I am also trying to buy something better like free range eggs or organic stuff... but they often 10 times more expensive then the normal cruelty breed stuff. For me I don't think I want to pay 20 Dhs for 6 eggs compare to 5Dhs for 6 eggs. Also, orgainic apples cost 29 Dhs per kg, and normal full of chemical apples cost only 5.95dhs per kg. <----- a lot of different with prices.... for people like me I do want to support the healthy breeding farms and organic industries BUT I certainly cannot afford to pay this kind of $$ for my food.