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It is an immoral and unnatural act.

Gays do harm others. They harm children. Innocent little children are baffled when they see fags walking hand in hand or kissing. It is wrong.

Shame on all gay people for not correcting themselves. Keep it in the closet.

kanelli wrote:irish vanessa, there is no conclusive evidence that adults who are attracted to children aren't born that way, the same as homos.e.x.uals. It is very possible that some are born with a tendency and some develop it because of the environment - there is evidence for both.

Your observation that gays aren't hurting people because they are having s.e.x with a consenting adult is correct, but it isn't logical to say that homos.e.x.uality is therefore not an illness or immoral.

Homos.e.x.uality seems to be tolerated more because it doesn't harm children or animals, like incest, pedophelia, and beastiality do, and adults can better understand mature love between two adults.

(Defining immoral is too difficult, as I mentioned in my previous post.)

I never said that those attracted to children weren't born that way - i believe that they are, and they must fight and reject these feelings.

Gays, however should not have to do this. Why live a life as something you're not just to keep from offending others???

Actually on that note, how do little children view guys holding hands here? You see grown men walking holding each other's hands here all the time.

And guys hugging and kissing when they greet - I thought that was the norm here too?

Liban wrote:It is an immoral and unnatural act.

Gays do harm others. They harm children. Innocent little children are baffled when they see fags walking hand in hand or kissing. It is wrong.

Shame on all gay people for not correcting themselves. Keep it in the closet.

Like you Liban?????

It is my opinion that people who are aggresively anti-gay, are most likely to be gay themselves.

irish vanessa wrote:

easternjewel wrote:I think being gay is just like being ill. You have to seek medical treatment. Its just against the nature.

That is such an ignorant statement EJ! My uncle is not ill and i know that he wouldn't have chosen to be gay - he's had a difficult secretive life, trying to hold up the persona of businessman bachelor. I respect him a lot though because i know of others who have entered marriage and family just because they felt they had to keep up appearances...

I admit that the thoughts of gay s.e.x are disturbing, but so is that of any other animal. Get a life EJ and open your mind.

sweety, dont get hyper. Your uncle is gay.. my close cousin has the same problem aswell! Coming from a culture same as mine you have no idea how difficult it can be for a girl of her age to be in that situation not wanting to get married cause she is in love with the same s.e.x! therefore
I know the seriousness of this issue. I said its an illness because it is being ill in the head. I did not say your uncle is ill. I said its just like any thing abnormal that has to be medically treated. Does that sound too bad? However. My cousin is seeing the Psychiatrist. but has been ineffective until now.

Of course, I have my own opinion on things. I don't think that homos.e.x.uality is immoral, but I do consider it dysfunctional in the way that technically, according to biology and propagating our species, it is a waste to have humans who are pair bonding and not reproducing. Having said this, there are many heteros.e.x.ual pair bonds that don't produce children either. This is why I would rather consider a person's quality of life as the main reason for accepting homos.e.x.uality. Also, there is evidence of homos.e.x.uality in many other species on the planet, so it seems that biologically it is natural to see a small number of homos.e.x.uals making up part of the whole population of a species.

I have a few gay friends and I am always so happy to go to dinner with them and see them with their partner - happy and affectionate, just like the other hetero.s.e.xual couples. It doesn't matter that they won't produce children - they are in love and share their life just like heteros.e.x.ual couples do. Children are not stupid and you can explain to them that some people are attracted to the same s.e.x.

I never said that those attracted to children weren't born that way - i believe that they are, and they must fight and reject these feelings.

Gays, however should not have to do this. Why live a life as something you're not just to keep from offending others???

So why Gays shouldn't reject such feelings????


EJ you are right, they are ill people.


Kanelli, what is moral and immoral is determined by oneself commiting to a certain religion or if not, then he is his own master.

But all religions banned homosexuality and condamned it.. so why there are alot of people FOR it ???

Marriage among cousines is not incest by the way, as by law and religions there is nothing against it.
I see it perfectly normal, whats wrong with it???

easternjewel wrote:

irish vanessa wrote:

easternjewel wrote:I think being gay is just like being ill. You have to seek medical treatment. Its just against the nature.

That is such an ignorant statement EJ! My uncle is not ill and i know that he wouldn't have chosen to be gay - he's had a difficult secretive life, trying to hold up the persona of businessman bachelor. I respect him a lot though because i know of others who have entered marriage and family just because they felt they had to keep up appearances...

I admit that the thoughts of gay s.e.x are disturbing, but so is that of any other animal. Get a life EJ and open your mind.

sweety, dont get hyper. Your uncle is gay.. my close cousin has the same problem aswell! Coming from a culture same as mine you have no idea how difficult it can be for a girl of her age to be in that situation not wanting to get married cause she is in love with the same s.e.x! therefore
I know the seriousness of this issue. I said its an illness because it is being ill in the head. I did not say your uncle is ill. I said its just like any thing abnormal that has to be medically treated. Does that sound too bad? However. My cousin is seeing the Psychiatrist. but has been ineffective until now.

#1) im not hyper, im just enjoying a good debate.
#2) My uncle is gay - i don't believe it to be a 'problem' as you call it. It is the unfortunate reality of his life, but i don't think it should be that way in this day and age.
#3) i don't know what culture you come from, but calling a gay person ill-in-the-head would be extremely unaccepted in mine.
#4) Seeing a psychiatrist is not going to change a persons sexual orientation.

First cousins share some of the same genetic matter because they each have a parent who is a sibling. Also, from a family standpoint, when children are raised together, it seems strange that cousins who grow up like brother and sister are then married to each other. So, from a genetic and social standpoint this seems really weird to me.

XRW-147 wrote:Actually on that note, how do little children view guys holding hands here? You see grown men walking holding each other's hands here all the time.

And guys hugging and kissing when they greet - I thought that was the norm here too?

that is just a cultural thing. Can you not make out between Arab men greeting eachother & gay couples XRW

yshimy wrote:Kanelli, what is moral and immoral is determined by oneself commiting to a certain religion or if not, then he is his own master.

But all religions banned fun and condamned it.. so why there are alot of people FOR it ???

Marriage among cousines is not incest by the way, as by law and religions there is nothing against it.
I see it perfectly normal, whats wrong with it???

Yshimy, don't get me wrong here. Its not that I am 'for' it, but I choose not to judge them in the same light you have chosen. Like you said, we are masters of our own domain.

Catholic priests have been some of the most commonly publicised pedophiles so does that make it justifiable?

Well in some countries they have started to recognize g.a.y unions as well, so what's wrong with that?

kanelli wrote:Children are not stupid and you can explain to them that some people are attracted to the same s.e.x.

So we also can tell them that some people are attracted to their mothers, aunts, sister, and daughters. Also tell them that some people are attracted in kids their age, and some people attracted to animals.

I don't agree.

irish vanessa wrote:
It is my opinion that people who are aggresively anti-gay, are most likely to be gay themselves.

Your opinion then is quite wrong.

Vanessa, you can't say that.

In your culture there are people who also feel that it is an illness. As well, there is some scientific evidence that some people turn gay because of peer pressure or dysfunctional family relationships. For example, a family with an overbearing mother and abusive sisters might mean that a male child dislikes women and then finds men more attractive. Some people experiment with s.e.x.ual orientation, and in the past it has been trendy in some circles to do such a thing.

easternjewel wrote:that is just a cultural thing. Can you not make out between Arab men greeting eachother & gay couples XRW

EJ, I'm talking about how children view it. People just said on here seeing such things confuses them, so how do you explain the difference to children?

kanelli wrote:First cousins share some of the same genetic matter because they each have a parent who is a sibling. Also, from a family standpoint, when children are raised together, it seems strange that cousins who grow up like brother and sister are then married to each other. So, from a genetic and social standpoint this seems really weird to me.

This is where my opinions change - i totally disagree with cousins reproducing. It's wrong! Gays are not harming others, wheras cousins reproducing is harmful to their offspring. Such children have been more likely to suffer from genetic disorders etc etc

yshimy wrote:

I never said that those attracted to children weren't born that way - i believe that they are, and they must fight and reject these feelings.

Gays, however should not have to do this. Why live a life as something you're not just to keep from offending others???

So why Gays shouldn't reject such feelings????


EJ you are right, they are ill people.


Kanelli, what is moral and immoral is determined by oneself commiting to a certain religion or if not, then he is his own master.

But all religions banned fun and condamned it.. so why there are alot of people FOR it ???

Marriage among cousines is not incest by the way, as by law and religions there is nothing against it.
I see it perfectly normal, whats wrong with it???

there is no reason for gays to reject these feelings because they are not hurting others!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Liban wrote:

irish vanessa wrote:
It is my opinion that people who are aggresively anti-gay, are most likely to be gay themselves.

Your opinion then is quite wrong.

Actually, there is some fact in what Vanessa said, though it isn't true in all cases. I have met one man who was married with three children and he finally came out as gay later on. He used to call gays all kinds of names and kick up a big stink about homos.e.x.uality, because he was trying to throw people off the fact that secretly he had feelings towards men.

For everyone else, what do you think about men and women who marry, have children and then sneak off to public bathrooms to have s.e.x with other people to satisfy their need to have s.e.x with someone who actually turns them on. Would you rather have diseases being brought home to husbands and wives, and families being destroyed, or let people be gay and save such bad marital situations from happening?

kanelli wrote:Vanessa, you can't say that.

In your culture there are people who also feel that it is an illness. As well, there is some scientific evidence that some people turn gay because of peer pressure or dysfunctional family relationships. For example, a family with an overbearing mother and abusive sisters might mean that a male child dislikes women and then finds men more attractive. Some people experiment with s.e.x.ual orientation, and in the past it has been trendy in some circles to do such a thing.

gud post Kenelli.
Seeing a psychiatrist has helped alot of people regarding this problem or issue as you like to call it.

XRW-147 wrote:Actually on that note, how do little children view guys holding hands here? You see grown men walking holding each other's hands here all the time.

And guys hugging and kissing when they greet - I thought that was the norm here too?

Good point. I too have noticed men holding hands and kissing here.

Years ago I had some Korean students who came to me upset that some people had made comments to them in the hall of the university. The girls were holding hands, and when in a group the girls are more affectionate with each other, playing with each other's hair and touching each other more. Some of the other university students were calling them lesbians etc.

I told them people just didn't understand the culture and they should just ignore them.

X
Whats wrong with it..... IT promotes the purpose, so whats next, unions for transgender????? unions for zoophelia or whatever you call it... i can't stand that man, i can live in peace with them around like in europe, because it is their culture, but imagining them in our countries have rights etc... i hate that man, in the end, we are muslim nations.

cheers


Kanelli,
Cousins not always live together like brothers and sisters, and employing this logic, noone should marry any gurl/guy he meets in kindergarden, primary school. as they consider them sisters.

About the genatic thing, i agree with you and thats why before cousins get married they check if the children will be ok or got any dysfunctional.

excuse my spelling

yshimy wrote:

kanelli wrote:Children are not stupid and you can explain to them that some people are attracted to the same s.e.x.

So we also can tell them that some people are attracted to their mothers, aunts, sister, and daughters. Also tell them that some people are attracted in kids their age, and some people attracted to animals.

I don't agree.

Actually yes, you tell them that if they ask about it. Then you tell them that it is wrong for an adult to be s.e.x.ual with children, animals, or family members - and you explain the reasons why. You can raise your children however you like.

easternjewel wrote:

kanelli wrote:Vanessa, you can't say that.

In your culture there are people who also feel that it is an illness. As well, there is some scientific evidence that some people turn gay because of peer pressure or dysfunctional family relationships. For example, a family with an overbearing mother and abusive sisters might mean that a male child dislikes women and then finds men more attractive. Some people experiment with s.e.x.ual orientation, and in the past it has been trendy in some circles to do such a thing.

gud post Kenelli.
Seeing a psychiatrist has helped alot of people regarding this problem or issue as you like to call it.

It might help some people who are homos.e.x.ual because of their past environment , but for those who are biologically wired to be s.e.x.ually attracted to people of the same s.e.x it really doesn't help I'm afraid. It is worth a try at least, and if it doesn't work, then the family should be supportive.

kanelli wrote:Vanessa, you can't say that.

In your culture there are people who also feel that it is an illness. As well, there is some scientific evidence that some people turn gay because of peer pressure or dysfunctional family relationships. For example, a family with an overbearing mother and abusive sisters might mean that a male child dislikes women and then finds men more attractive. Some people experiment with s.e.x.ual orientation, and in the past it has been trendy in some circles to do such a thing.

There are a lot of people in my culture who feel exactly the same as a lot of you. It is not long since one child in every family was forced into the priesthood, since being gay was seriously frowned upon and discouraged, since catholicism dominated our lives. It is difficult to ignore this recent past and i believe that the high male suicide rate in my country is as a result of closet gays' feelings of inadequacy.

Also, no matter what scientific evidence you quote, i don't believe that a person can 'turn' gay.

XRW-147 wrote:

easternjewel wrote:that is just a cultural thing. Can you not make out between Arab men greeting eachother & gay couples XRW

EJ, I'm talking about how children view it. People just said on here seeing such things confuses them, so how do you explain the difference to children?

well, the only difficult part would be to xplain the 'mushy mushy' things that gay couples do.

yshimy wrote:X
Whats wrong with it..... IT promotes the purpose, so whats next, unions for transgender????? unions for zoophelia or whatever you call it... i can't stand that man, i can live in peace with them around like in europe, because it is their culture, but imagining them in our countries have rights etc... i hate that man, in the end, we are muslim nations.

cheers

Yshimy, don't get me wrong. I didn't mean to imply that I want people to be open endedly expressing their se.xual orientation here. Its a muslim country and people must respect that fact - same as not eating/drinking in public during ramadan. In light of the fact you do accept their existence and place in society in a cultural setting that accepts it then I think we are on the same page here.

yshimy wrote:About the genatic thing, i agree with you and thats why before cousins get married they check if the children will be ok or got any dysfunctional.

excuse my spelling

With regards to genetics, I thought you can only check for defeciencies/deformities post conception?

kanelli wrote:

easternjewel wrote:

kanelli wrote:Vanessa, you can't say that.

In your culture there are people who also feel that it is an illness. As well, there is some scientific evidence that some people turn gay because of peer pressure or dysfunctional family relationships. For example, a family with an overbearing mother and abusive sisters might mean that a male child dislikes women and then finds men more attractive. Some people experiment with s.e.x.ual orientation, and in the past it has been trendy in some circles to do such a thing.

gud post Kenelli.
Seeing a psychiatrist has helped alot of people regarding this problem or issue as you like to call it.

It might help some people who are homos.e.x.ual because of their past environment , but for those who are biologically wired to be s.e.x.ually attracted to people of the same s.e.x it really doesn't help I'm afraid. It is worth a try at least, and if it doesn't work, then the family should be supportive.

If you suggest this for gays, so why you don't for people who like kids.


And yes gays harm the society, the family is the core cell of society, it ruins the family concept. also the freaking HIV that been wondering around.

Why do you think religions would ban homosexuality if it is not bad????

Men kissing each other on the cheek is not the same as men frenching... Give me a break!

Yes vanessa, but I have a friend who was staunchly gay, and now he is married to a woman. I know of two other lesbians who are living happily with men now and have babies. Examples like that blow the theory of pure genetic cause out the window.

Liban,

They are homophobic