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Liban wrote:Just because you mellowed out your arguments...

But I still sense deep anger in you that goes against the spirit of Islam my brother.

"Mellowed out", no brother I have not swayed from my views that western influence in Mid east is the cause of the most problems in Mid east, and the only way to bring peace and prosperity in mid east is to return to how things were, to the Ummah/Caliphat. I will admit that I should do better job seperating Western government and Western citizen who I have no quarrel with.


Hahaa...brother I hope you are not confusing anger with self determination. Also the hyprocricy on in the Gulf states goes against the spirit of Islam, example giving base to foriegn powers to invade and kill fellow muslims, oppressing poor muslim refugees.

kanelli wrote:Lionheart said that the Arab leaders are conspiring with the West. That indicates a so-called Western "conspiracy". Can there really be a Western conspiracy if the Arab leaders are cooperating and making deals? What is the "conspiracy" anyway? Everybody get wealthy on oil revenue? Make sure that people in power are people you get along with for political and economic reasons? Protect your oil interests so that your economy doesn't collapse? Do you notice that none of these have anything to do with Islam, by the way?

Liban, you persist in being disrespectful to me and again, it only reflects poorly on you.

If the West has no interest in Mid east than why is your Army occuppaying every country in Mid east with large Oil deposit, why don't your Army police places were their presence is needed like Uganda, Chad, Zaire, Haite,etc. Why are Western powers intent on invading every country in Mid east that disagrees with Imperlist ways( ex. Iran, Iraq, soon Syria).


If what is going on in Mid east is not enslavement than why is Isreal allowed to Nuclear weapon and not its neighbors. WHy are countries with large Oil reserves not allowed to have the right to deter foriegn force from invading them by having WMD, like all other nations.

Liban, when do you ever say anything positive about the West? "Discussing" with you is pointless because you are disrespectful and can't see past your own biases.

Lionheart, in my opinion it really is the oil. Oil is money and money is power. I think that the oil is in demand from every country and it is in everyone's best interest to make sure that they have access to it and protect themselves from being blocked from accessing it. This makes for volatile politics and lots of wheeling and dealing is going on. It isn't just the US that meddles in the affairs of other countries - let's remember that.

What I object to is Muslims making a political issue a religious one - making it seem like the West has some kind of religious conspiracy against them. If anything, I'd say that some Muslim groups have a conspiracy to try to force their form of Islam on everyone else including other Muslims.

Hypocrisy in the way that countries conduct their affairs, the policies they support for some countries and not for others, etc. also runs rampant everywhere, not just the West.

I don't see much Arab unity in the political scene, and people can blame the West all they like, but that isn't going to solve the problem - which is that Arab leaders are the ones that can make a difference for their people and build closer ties with each other. They have the choice to do whatever they like.

Understand, grasshopper, that for Muslims, politics and religion are fluidic. Do not think you know all when it comes to this. You can "discuss" (more like nag) all you want, but on this issue, I know you are not correct.

So, are you saying that the West has a religious conspiracy against Islamic countries, and Islamic countries are correct to pitt Islam against the West? Is the tension between East and West an Islam vs. every other religion issue?