Some bloggers have tried to blame Israel's killing of 11 month old Omar on 'rogue Hamas rockets' - and the slur has been repeated as fact by a poster here. Bloggers trying to spin facts is nothing new, but to pass off the fiction as fact and to ask someone to apologise for pointing out that Israel killed civilians - that takes Chutzpah.
The fact that Omar's father worked for the BBC means we have an extra insight into this one incident of civilians being slaughtered by Israeli bombs. Omar's aunt had her head blown off - the report says. That is the ugly side behind the statistics - Israeli bombs blow up people. Some make excuses because of their hatred for those being slaughtered. That is sad.
Here is Omar before. After the Israeli strike:. A hideous tiny corpse. Omar's smiling face virtually burnt off, that fine hair appearing to be melted on to his scalp.'
Despite the evidence pointing towards an Israeli air strike, some bloggers have suggested it might have been a misfired Hamas rocket.
But at that time, so soon after the launch of Israel's operation, the Israeli military says mortars had been launched from Gaza but very few rockets.
Mortar fire would not cause the fireball that appears to have engulfed Jehad's house.
Other bloggers have said that the damage to Jehad's home was not consistent with powerful Israeli attacks but the BBC visited other bombsites this week with very similar fire damage, where Israel acknowledged carrying out what it called "surgical strikes".
Omar was not a terrorist.
Of course every civilian death on either side - not just Omar's - is tragic. The United Nations says its preliminary investigation shows that 103 of the 158 people killed in Gaza were civilians.
Of those, 30 were children - 12 of whom were under the age of 10. More than 1,000 people were injured.
The Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev said every non-combatant death or injury was tragic and an "operational failure".
In Israel, too, there were fatalities: four civilians and two soldiers. There were also many injuries. But the fact the Israeli Ambulance Service was also reporting those suffering from anxiety and bruises is an indication of the asymmetric nature of the conflict.
Jehad's baby Omar was probably the first child to die in this latest round of violence.
Among the last was a six-year-old boy, Abdul Rahman Naeem, who was killed by an Israeli attack just hours before the ceasefire was announced.
I agree that the slaughter of this baby is indeed a sad story.
It is normal for people to be repelled by the killing of civilians like this. You say this is war - and again I agree with you. Israel has indeed launched a war against the Gazans and killed all those children and civilians. Baby Omar is a casualty of the weapons of war unleashed by Israel. Israel has killed far more babies and civilians in this war.
This thread highlights how some bloggers have tried to spin the killing by Israel by wrongly saying the baby was killed by a rogue rocket fired from Gaza towards the Israelis firing at Palestinians.
But we at least agree that this slaughter is sad, and it would be no less sad if it was an Israeli baby that was slaughtered.
The proIsraeli damage control has failed spectacularly in trying to spin the killings of Children as the fault of the Gazans.
Well that's your version of events, to which you are entitled. I, on the other hand, think that the Israelis have the right to defend themselves. It really isn't rocket science to realise that if you fire rockets into Israeli territory then they will retaliate. The fact that more Palestinians have been killed just shows that the Israelis have superior fire power. You would have thought the Palestinians would have learnt by now. I truly feel sorry for those people. The images we have seen of them dragging bodies behind motorcycles is sickening. No one should have to stand by and watch their own people being treated like that. Why do they stand by? Any idea?
Spin is blaming Israel and not Hamas for civilian deaths caused by retaliatory strikes against rocket batteries placed in populated areas firing into Israel.
Edit: I see Harrysplace has a great article on this recent event:
On the 14th of November, the son of BBC video editor Jihad Masharawi died. Here is his account of what happened:
Interviewer: “Our condolences, Jihad. Tell me what happened with you.”
JM: “Shrapnel hit our house.”
Interviewer: “Shrapnel?”
JM: “Yes. My sister-in-law was killed along with my son and my brother and my other son were wounded.
Interviewer: “In which area?”
JM: “In al Zeitoun.
Zeitoun is a district of Gaza which hosted Iranian Fajr 5 missile sites, ready for launching into Israel. Here is a photograph of one such site:
It is, as you can see, situated within a civilian area.
As you can see by looking at aerial photographs of the Gaza Strip, the area contains a large amount of open and agricultural land. It would be entirely possible for Hamas and its allies to store their missiles in and fire them from somewhere other than residential and civilian areas: near mosques, hospitals, playgrounds, football fields, and private homes. However, they choose instead to situate them in locations where they know that, if they are hit by even the most precise of surgical airstrikes, the secondary explosions will quite possibly cause destruction and death in their area.
I’ve posted below a short video which shows what happens when Israel hits an ammunition cache. These are precisely the consequences that Hamas intends. It is often said that this tactic amounts to sheltering behind skirts and prams as it seeks to kill Israeli civilians. I think that’s precisely what it is.
Who killed Jihad Masharawi’s son?
There are a number of possibilities.
First of all, Israel deliberately launched a missile at a civilian house, intending to kill him and his family. That, as the Elder of Ziyon observes, is unlikely:
The idea that Israel, which managed to kill less than one civilian for every 30 airstrikes in Gaza, targeted the house of a low-level BBC employee during the initial wave of attacks – while he wasn’t home – is simply not believable. Unless you are convinced, ab initio, of Israel’s monstrous nature, there are other explanations that fit the incident far better.
However, that still allows for the possibility that an Israeli missile went astray, or that the attack on the house was intentional, but resulted from mistaken information. That certainly could have happened.
Nevertheless, there are two other possibilities which should be considered. The first is that Hamas or its allies launched a missile at Israel, but that it fell short and hit Jihad Masharawi’s house. That, quite possibly, is the cause of death of Mahmoud Sadallah, whose body was displayed to the world’s media, to be kissed by the Egyptian Prime Minister. Although it was widely claimed in the press that this child died in an Israeli strike, none appears to have taken place at the time of his death. By contrast, estimates of the percentage of the Hamas rockets which fall short and fall within Gaza range from between 15% and 40%. Damage to homes in Gaza by missiles is particularly perilous, because a large number of homes have propane gas heaters, and domestic generators. A missile or shrapnel hit can cause a secondary explosion. In any event, the Elder of Ziyon notes, the Daily Mirror has now removed the news item which most prominently covered the story, but has not announced its reason for doing so, or considered the matter further.
The final possibility is that the shrapnel which hit Jihad Masharawi’s house resulted from an explosion or a secondary explosion on one of the weapons caches and launching sites near his home.
Which theory is correct? We can’t know for sure: at least not yet. Perhaps there will be an investigation in which facts will become apparent. Israel knows where it launched attacks. It may have intelligence which shows the sites of misfired Hamas etc. rockets. Their proximity to Jihad Masharawi’s house could be ascertained.
Who is morally responsible for the deaths of civilians, where despite not being targeted, they die when Hamas shoots wonky rockets which fall short, or when Israeli missiles ignite weapons caches that are intended to be fired at Israeli cities? I can guarantee you that there are many who take the view that even in these circumstances, Israel and Israel alone should be held accountable.
As BBC Watch has pointed out, as far as the BBC and it’s correspondent Jon Donnison are concerned, there is only one possibility: that for some reason Israel fired a missile into Jihad Masharawi’s house. This is how he puts it:
“Despite the evidence pointing towards an Israeli air-strike, some have suggested it might have been a misfired Hamas rocket. But at that time, so soon after the launch of Israel’s operation, Israel’s military says mortars had been launched from Gaza, but very few rockets. Mortar fire would not cause the fireball that appears to have engulfed Jihad’s house. Others say that the damage was not consistent with powerful Israeli attacks, but the BBC visited other bomb sites this week with very similar fire damage, where Israel acknowledged carrying out what it called “surgical strikes”. Like at Jihad’s house, there was very little structural damage, but the victims were brought out with massive and fatal burns.”
As BBC Watch points out, there is no basis for Donnison’s conviction that an Israeli airstrike hit Jihad Masharawi’s house. Donnison provides observations based upon what he believes to be similar patterns of fire damage. However, the pictures show merely a hole in a building and a fire, which may have been caused by an Israeli airstrike or by any of the other possibilities canvassed above, including one of the ‘very few’ rocket strikes which Donnison discounts. There’s no discussion, either, of the evidence of Jihad Masharawi that ’shrapnel’ – not a rocket – hit his house. That is at odds with Donnison’s belief that the attack looked like the aftermath of an Israel “surgical strike” with a missile. In any event, I don’t know whether an exploding Israeli missile would have left identifiable fragments, but certainly none have been produced.
With limited data, Donnison can’t be sure: but it is very clear what he thinks.
As well as expressing near-certainty that an Israeli strike killed Omar Masharawi, Our Own Correspondent also contained a graphic description of the state of his body and the natural and terrible agony of his father. I think that, having been told the horrific story of how Israel launched a missile into a BBC employee’s house, killing his son, and having heard about the impact of that missile on a tiny child’s face, most people would be unprepared to discuss the possibility that the death had resulted from some other chain of events.
If Israel deliberately launched a missile into a civilian’s house, it should be condemned. If Israel did so, believing that the house was in fact occupied by a military target, then the BBC ought to investigate how it came to make such a terrible mistake. If Omar Masharawi died as a result of a misfired Palestinian rocket or mortar, then that should also be investigated and condemned. Were he to have died following an Israeli strike of a Fajr5 rocket site in Zeitoun, then that should at least be reported. The BBC should ask Hamas why it put a Fajr5 launching site in the middle of a civilian area. It could ask Israel the same question: and its answer would be that it knew that these rockets were being prepared for launch at Tel Aviv and Jerusalem.
I expect that some effort will now be put into trying to find out precisely what happened. If Israel’s culpability is ascertained, that too will be reported and Israel is likely to express regret, which will be regarded as insincere by most partisans of the Palestinian cause. If further evidence of Hamas culpability emerges then, from past experience, that is likely not to be reported at all. Hamas will express no sorrow, because it does not in fact regret the deaths of Palestinian civilians, and because it knows that it will never be pressed on its siting of missiles and caches within civilian neighbourhoods. In arguments on the internet, and at public meetings, we will be told that Israel should not have responded to missile attacks at all, which are in fact incapable of doing any harm, and in any case deserve them because of the supposed ‘occupied’ nature of Gaza.
As Norm observes:
[F]or a wide swathe of left-liberal and ‘anti-imperialist’ opinion there is now no way Israel can conduct itself from which it will earn moral credit. It is irredeemably tainted in its origin. Conversely, and in the same quarter, there is nothing that Hamas or other representatives of the Palestinian people can do, no wrong or outrage they can commit, which will not be morally ‘cleaned up’ by the perception that these representatives are supposedly the pure vehicle of a struggle against injustice.
One of the reasons for this opinion is that much of the media prominently report the deaths of children when they can be attributed to Israel but, as the Daily Mirror’s quiet de-publishing of its story illustrates, have very little to say when the facts shift and the story becomes less certain.
Any analogy one can make of this scenario - police officers and gunman - would always put the blame squarely on the person purposely endangering the lives of others; not the persons who acted with physical force to end the danger.
This is so clear cut in scenarios not involving Israel it becomes obvious persons aren't driven by lack of common sense but hatred.
BMreformed wrote:If that isn't spin, I don't know what is?
This thread is about bloggers spinning a fantasy that baby Omar was killed by a rogue rocket and not slaughtered by Israeli bombs. I'm pretty sure that Omar's mother and father will approve of this thread which is about correcting a lie that bloggers have made about Israel not killing their son.
This lie was repeated on this forum and Andy was asked to apologise for rightly pointing out that Israel did kill this baby (and blow up his aunt and many others). The honourable thing for the poster to do is to apologise to Andy.
Those are the facts. No amount of spin and propaganda will change this. Israel killed this baby and his aunt, and the bloggers are trying (and failing) to blame the victims.
What is also crystal clear, is that it is only the pro-Israeli posters here who are justifying the killing of civilians and who are dehumanising the victims. I'm just glad that this time round with journalists on the ground, the spin is just not working any more. That is unless you desperately want to believe the lying bloggers and present their fantasies as fact.
Anyway, I'll leave you guys to continue with your spin and fantasies - the facts speak for themselves.
Jon Donnison was in Gaza and working with Omar's father when the Israelis bombed Omar's home and killed him. Had you read the article you'd have realised this.
The bloggers spreading the lies about Omar's death and the posters here who want to believe the spin are not from Gaza. It is those who want to believe the lies here who should be ashamed, not anyone who points out what really happened.
It seems that it is not just your logic that is twisted in your blind support of the killers of baby Omar, but your comprehension skills too.
Its just such a shame that your hatred of others blinds you so.
It seems that when you say 'People like you', you mean all those who don't believe pro-Israeli spin - for all I've done in this thread is point out lies by bloggers. Without reading the article, you've decided that the article is biased - well, from a pro-Israeli perspective the truth is indeed biased.
To those who have read the debunking of the blogger lies - they may conclude that it is the Israeli bombing and on-going military occupation that is holding up the peace in the region. But hey, bloggers want you to think that it is those living under occupation and siege that are to blame.
But thanks for sharing your view and explanation of your previous posts on the topic of the lies by bloggers about baby Omar being killed not by Israeli bombs. I'll stick to the facts, and if that makes me a 'hater' in your eyes because I don't believe in lies of bloggers - so be it.
However, I'm not the one blaming the victims or spreading lies about who killed baby Omar. Which is what this thread is about. Interesting to note that you chose to post here without actually reading the original article. Hmm.
Next time I'll have to assume that you haven't actually read the evidence/posts and are just expressing 'opinions' rather than discussing.
Thanks for bumping my thread. Let's see whether the poster who first introduced the blogger lie here will apologise for his mistake (after all, he asked Andy to apologise). I'll stick around to see whether an apology is forthcoming, or whether we just see more spin and lies.
Ultimately any deaths in the latest conflict rest at the door of Hamas, a terrorist organisation I've yet to see you condemn. Had they not kept terrorising the people of Israel then they would not have retaliated. I'm afraid you can't see the wood for the trees.
The baby was more unlucky than the survivors of the TA bus bombing. A deliberate attempt to take out Israeli civilians.
Not surprising that you kept your head down on that topic.
Baby Omar's death was spun by bloggers who tried to blame a rogue Palestinian rocket, rather than an Israeli bomb which killed him and blew off the head of his aunt.
It seems a bit cold-hearted to refer to this slaughter as 'unlucky'.
However, this thread is about the lies the pro-Israeli bloggers spun to try and put the blame on a Palestinian rocket and not an Israeli bomb. Had you read the article or understood the thread heading, you would have realised this.
Your opinion that the Israeli bomb that killed baby Omar was Hamas' fault is a piece of twisted logic I will never understand. But this thread is about the blogger lies that it wasn't an Israeli bomb - at least I give you credit for 'just' making excuses for the Israeli bombing.
Despite the evidence pointing towards an Israeli air strike, some bloggers have suggested it might have been a misfired Hamas rocket.
But at that time, so soon after the launch of Israel's operation, the Israeli military says mortars had been launched from Gaza but very few rockets.
Mortar fire would not cause the fireball that appears to have engulfed Jehad's house.
From then on, the only focus is on mortar fire, while more than likely the house was hit by a Qassanm rocket from Hamas, which is dismissed further on and makes the account suspecious the say the least. Also in other interviews, the father couldnot get the neighbourhood of his house right. All in all, his story doesnot add up.
