Muslims In Britain: Well Integrated

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Muslims in Britain: Well integrated Jul 18, 2012
Facts and reality about British Muslims, in this article in a British newspaper:

There is, quite frankly, no major issue of Muslims not wanting to be a part of British society. But there is an issue with the common but unspoken xenophobia pervasive in British society that casts Muslims as outsiders.

As we've seen from the banned gang members posting here - their xenophobia is not unspoken.

Anyway, this article does a good job of rounding up the facts available and contrasting it with the prejudiced views seen a lot recently on this forum.

Muslims are well-integrated in Britain – but no one seems to believe it
by Leon Moosavi, The Guardian

In Britain today there is a mismatch between how non-Muslims often perceive Muslims and how Muslims typically perceive themselves. This disconnect is down to a tendency by non-Muslims to assume that Muslims struggle with their British identity and divided loyalties. These concerns were challenged a few days ago,in a report by the University of Essex that found Muslims actually identify with Britishness more than any other Britons.

This study is just one of several recent studies that have consistently found that Muslims in Britain express a stronger sense of belonging in Britain than their compatriots. Consider the following examples:

• 83% of Muslims are proud to be a British citizen, compared to 79% of the general public.
• 77% of Muslims strongly identify with Britain while only 50% of the wider population do.
• 86.4% of Muslims feel they belong in Britain, slightly more than the 85.9% of Christians.
• 82% of Muslims want to live in diverse and mixed neighbourhoods compared to 63% of non-Muslim Britons.
• 90% of Pakistanis feel a strong sense of belonging in Britain compared to 84% of white people.

Those who work closely with Muslim communities will attest to the integrated position of British Muslims and that despite frequent exoticisation, British Muslim lives are much the same as any other citizen’s. British Muslims also appreciate their ability to practise their religion in Britain without the type of subjugation that fellow Muslims are subjected to under despotic regimes in several Muslim-majority countries. Even though negative depictions may encourage people to imagine Muslims as similar to the 7/7 bombers who struck seven years ago this week, your average British Muslim is much more likely to be similar to a confident Amir Khan, a bubbly Konnie Huq or a hardworking James Caan.

There is, quite frankly, no major issue of Muslims not wanting to be a part of British society. But there is an issue with the common but unspoken xenophobia pervasive in British society that casts Muslims as outsiders. That is why despite Muslims repeatedly pledging their dedication to Britain, a consistent spattering of polls show that many non-Muslim Britons still view Muslims as a potential enemy within. Consider the following examples:

• 47% of Britons see Muslims as a threat.
• Only 28% of Britons believe Muslims want to integrate into British society.
• 52% of Britons believe that Muslims create problems.
• 45% of Britons admit that they think there are too many Muslims in Britain.
• 55% of Britons would be concerned if a mosque was built in their area.
• 58% of Britons associate Islam with extremism.

The minority of Muslims in Britain who do view Britain with contempt – as indeed, we must recognise there are some – frequently explain their disaffection as a result of being labelled as outsiders and told they do not belong. Thus, the inability to appreciate British Muslims as typical citizens can actually create the very atypical citizens that are feared in the first place. Muslims want to be part of British society but their marginalisation may lead to some retreating to the margins.
If the myth that Muslims in Britain will not integrate is allowed to be propagated, it will only lead to the continuation of a harmful cycle whereby greater distrust and animosity is sown. The results of this can be devastating…


More here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ed-britain

Cheers,
Shafique

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Re: Muslims in Britain: Well integrated Jul 18, 2012
Not everyone is buying the hype:

DissaffectedYouth wrote:
Have you ever considered that mass immigration may have caused a decline in the connection indigenous Britons feel towards their country?

Also, if you wish to use polls, please provide the other side of the story:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/may/0 ... osexuality
- 0% of British Muslims found homosexuality acceptable.
- 3% found relations outside of marriage morally justifiable.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... in-UK.html
- 40% of this poll found Muslims wanting Sharia law in the UK.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... alues.html
- 75% of young muslims want women to wear the veil (or at least hijab) compared to 19% of adult population.

As I’ve stated though, there are rather more concerning patterns emerging:

1) The extremist views of young Muslims in particular (aged 16-24)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... dents.html

These results are from a poll of Muslim students:

– 33% claim that killing is justified if done to protect religion.
– 40 percent support the introduction of sharia for British Muslims.
– 33 percent support a worldwide Islamic caliphate based on sharia.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... dical.html & http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... alues.html

These results are from Muslims polled (16 – 24) for Policy Exchange:
-37 percent of young British Muslims want Sharia law in Britain.
-36 percent of young British Muslims think apostates should be killed.
-13 percent of young British Muslims said they “admired” Al Qaeda.

2) Support or Sympathy with Terrorism & 3) Conspiracy Theories

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jun/23/uk.religion

-According to a 2006 Pew Survey, only 17% of British Muslims believe that Arabs carried out the September 11th attacks.

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/s ... +77/545847

-According to an NOP survey, 2007:
-24 percent of British Muslims deny that the four British Muslim suicide bombers carried out the 7/7 attacks.
-24 percent of British Muslims believe the British government carried out the 7/7 attacks.

http://news.scotsman.com/ViewArticle.as ... id=2798950 & http://www.ft.com/cms/s/3244cf90-2626-1 ... i_referer=

-According to Channel 4 Polls in August 2006, reported in both the Scotsman and the Financial Times:
-24 per cent agreed or tended to agree that the 7/7 bombings were justified.
-45 per cent think 9/11 was carried out by the US or Israel.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 729974.ece
-16 percent of British Muslims support suicide bombing in Israel.
-7 percent of British Muslims support suicide bombing in Britain.

4)The denial of Islam requiring scrutiny, and the will to suppress free speech and criticism.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/291

-NOP Channel 4 polling came out with these results:

-33% of Muslims want Sharia Law as implemented in Saudi Arabia.
-28% of muslims agreed they dreamt of Britain becoming an Islamic State.

-78% wanted Danish cartoonist prosecuted.
-68% want prosecutions for insulting Islam.
-62% disagree with the freedom of speech if it insults religious sensibilities.
-50% said British people who insult Islam should be arrested and prosecuted.

-Between 5-9% say that violence to protect Islam is acceptable.
-Whilst 10-13% found that they “understood” why young muslims might want to become suicide bombers.


Source: http://my.telegraph.co.uk/danielpycock/ ... of-the-uk/
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Re: Muslims In Britain: Well Integrated Jul 18, 2012
rayznack, are you British?
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Re: Muslims In Britain: Well Integrated Jul 18, 2012
A government stat:



• Unemployment among ethnic minorities costs the economy almost £8.6 billion a year in benefits and lost revenue from taxes. Half of Muslim men and three quarters of Muslim women are unemployed.


http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=ht ... 2011-09-14

Well, of course they feel British; and one could certainly understand why the tax payers of Britain feel less British.
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Re: Muslims In Britain: Well Integrated Jul 18, 2012
^ray/eh is a Christian fundamentalist from America.

Comparing the two quotes above (in first two posts) - mine is from a UK newspaper and shows the reality on the topic of integration, the second is from a self-proclaimed 'conservative student blogger' 'Danpycock' from 2010 - and follows the usual pattern of selective quotes.

I am not surprised that Danpycock wants to believe the hype - a quick Google shows that he believes Islamophobia is rational etc.

Anyway, it is always good to compare and contrast the opposing views in any discussion. For me, the reality is indeed as in the OP - and the second is really just a strawman and does not address the integration of British Muslims in society at all.

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Shafique
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Re: Muslims In Britain: Well Integrated Jul 18, 2012
Strange you go on about what Danpycock believes as opposed to addressing his 10 separate surveys.
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Re: Muslims In Britain: Well Integrated Jul 18, 2012
What the OP is about is British Muslims integrating in society. Danypycock is an unashamed Islamophobe who has selectively quoted surveys and which you are trying to use as a strawman to counter the facts in the OP.

A British Muslim or a British Jew or a British Christian can be both British and oppose homosexuality based on their religuous views, for example. Strawman.

The recent survey dispels most of your myths:
This study is just one of several recent studies that have consistently found that Muslims in Britain express a stronger sense of belonging in Britain than their compatriots. Consider the following examples:

• 83% of Muslims are proud to be a British citizen, compared to 79% of the general public.
• 77% of Muslims strongly identify with Britain while only 50% of the wider population do.
• 86.4% of Muslims feel they belong in Britain, slightly more than the 85.9% of Christians.
• 82% of Muslims want to live in diverse and mixed neighbourhoods compared to 63% of non-Muslim Britons.
• 90% of Pakistanis feel a strong sense of belonging in Britain compared to 84% of white people.



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Shafique
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Re: Muslims in Britain: Well integrated Jul 18, 2012
Danypycock is an unashamed Islamophobe who has selectively quoted surveys


He quoted the conclusions of 10 separate surveys. The only one guilty of selective quotation is the author in the OP.

But I understand, dropping the "selective" claim is your fall back when you can't refute the evidence.

which you are trying to use as a strawman to counter the facts in the OP.


Have you figured out what a strawman is yet?

The recent survey dispels most of your myths:


Which myth does your one survey dispel, exactly?

British Muslim markers of integration: employment, educational attainment, criminality, views?

I remember you claiming to speak for British values on a separate thread. Which of the 10 surveys cited do you believe Muslims hold more British values than their non-Muslim countrymen?

These surveys qualify British values. Your survey simply asks who feels British. I'd pick Britons who support free speech and oppose 7th century values and feel less British over those wanting Britain to emulate Saudi Arabia and feel themselves most British any day.
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Re: Muslims In Britain: Well Integrated Jul 18, 2012
That myths that the survey results dispel are that British Muslims aren't integrated and don't feel part of British etc, are not proud to be British etc.

British people have diverse views over how to treat criminals, what is a crime, which political parties to support etc. Your strawman arguments have been tried a few times now and have failed on all occasions.

All you are doing is displaying the same prejudices about Muslims that makes you want to think Muslims can't be really British. Reality is different from your fantasy.

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Shafique
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Re: Muslims In Britain: Well Integrated Jul 18, 2012
Thanks, I'll stick with government statistics and more than ten separate surveys to make my mind up.

You can hang on to your one poll that never demonstrates British Muslim support for key British values (or levels of integration).
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Re: Muslims In Britain: Well Integrated Jul 18, 2012
Great. Thanks for your views.

Perhaps you can cheer yourself up by letting us know whether you consider Prince Charles to be British or not. ;)

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Shafique
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Re: Muslims In Britain: Well Integrated Jul 18, 2012
eh/ray has some strange beliefs - talking donkeys, Rapture, that the crusades weren't holy wars - but thinking that Prince Charles is Muslim is not one of them. You do him a disservice.

It is your logic that a British born son of an immigrant isn't British - so Prince Charles can't be British in your mind. How un-British a thing to believe!! :shock:

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Shafique
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Re: Muslims In Britain: Well Integrated Jul 18, 2012
Why do you think I'm trolling my subject which is about being British. Asking you to confront your belief that Prince Charles isn't British seems on topic to me.

Thanks for quoting the stats - they were presented as evidence that what people believe about British Muslims does not reflect reality. Just because you want to believe the myths - does not change the reality of British Muslims. Now, some posters here are British and have children and grandchildren who are Muslim. You'd expect that these would be the last to believe the myths about British Muslims not being truly British - but sometimes the hate is too strong. Don't you agree?

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Shafique
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Re: Muslims In Britain: Well Integrated Jul 18, 2012
You're easily confused. I got that from your quoting the stats from the OP and confusing what people believed with the reality shown in the survey results.

You'll have to look to your friends (real and imaginary) to help you with that though. ;)

Us British don't agree with your screw-ball theory that Prince Charles isn't British because his father is a Greek immigrant. That this belief is un-British makes it very much an on-topic issue here. Fail. Again. ;)

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Shafique
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Re: Muslims In Britain: Well Integrated Jul 18, 2012
LOL - not a whataboutery argument in sight. No one is excusing your silly idea about Prince Charles, just pointing out it is un-British.

Fail. Again.

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Shafique
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Re: Muslims In Britain: Well Integrated Jul 18, 2012
Thank you for your views. I refer you to my previous posts which explain why your belief is on-topic. I really can't help you further in clearing up your confusion.

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Shafique
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