American Opinion On Murderer

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American Opinion on Murderer Mar 22, 2012
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http://www.readexpress.com/printedition ... 192012.pdf

I find this hard to swallow.

A 'murdering bastard' kills 9 children and 7 adults, in cold blood and then sets fire to bodies - and yet there is a call by some to 'cut him some slack' and a list of excuses for the massacre.

Wow, I can only imagine what the torrent of abuse and indignation would be if anyone tried to excuse the killings in Toulouse, for example.

Salon.com has a good article on the excuses/explanations for the massacre in Afghanishan:
Discussing the motives of the Afghan shooter
(Salon.com)

Here’s a summary of the Western media discussion of what motivated U.S. Staff Sgt. Robert Bales on March 11 to allegedly kill 16 Afghans, including nine children:
† He was drunk.
† He was experiencing financial stress.
† He was passed over for a promotion.
† He had a traumatic brain injury.
† He had marital problems.
† He suffered from the stresses of four tours of duty.
† He saw his buddy’s leg blown off the day before the massacre.
Et cetera.

Here’s a summary of the Western media discussion of what motivates Muslims to kill Americans: they are primitive, fanatically religious, hateful Terrorists.

Even when Muslims who engage in such acts toward Americans clearlyand repeatedly explain that they did it in response to American acts of domination, aggression, violence and civilian-killing in their countries, and even when the violence is confined to soldiers who are part of a foreign army that has invaded and occupied their country, the only cognizable motive is one of primitive, hateful evil. It is an act of Evil Terrorism, and that is all there is to say about it.

Note, too, that in the case of Sgt. Bales (or any other cases of American violence against Muslims), people have little difficulty understanding the distinction between (a) discussing and trying to understand the underlying motives of the act (causation) and (b) defending the act (justification). But that same distinction completely evaporates when it comes to Muslim violence against Americans. Those who attempt to understand or explain the act — they’re responding to American violence in their country; they are traumatized and angry at the continuous deaths of Muslim children and innocent adults; they’ve calculated that striking at Americans is the ony way to deter further American aggression in their part of the world — are immediately accused of mitigating, justifying or even defending Terrorism.

There is, quite obviously, a desperate need to believe that when an American engages in acts of violence of this type (meaning: as a deviation from formal American policy), there must be some underlying mental or emotional cause that makes it sensible, something other than an act of pure hatred or Evil. When a Muslim engages in acts of violence against Americans, there is an equally desperate need to believe the opposite: that this is yet another manifestation of inscrutable hatred and Evil, and any discussion of any other causes must be prohibited and ignored.

http://www.salon.com/2012/03/19/discuss ... /singleton

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique
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Re: American Opinion On Murderer Mar 22, 2012
Shaf, I've been disgusted at the excuses being given for this guy. He's had problems with the law in the past and I think he was completely unfit for the military in the first place. It is amazing the kinds of people who get into the military and are allowed to hold loaded weapons in their hands. The people he killed weren't given any "slack", they will never get their lives back. He should be punished to the full extent of the law.
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Re: American Opinion On Murderer Mar 22, 2012
Let's remember he massacred 16, and 3 times more children that the other terrorist in France - and I agree the excuses are indeed dis.gusting.

I'm sure that no one will be making anywhere close the excuses for this guy for the French Terrorist. The contrast is striking.

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Shafique
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Re: American Opinion On Murderer Mar 22, 2012
shafique wrote:Let's remember he massacred 16, and 3 times more children that the other terrorist in France - and I agree the excuses are indeed dis.gusting.

I'm sure that no one will be making anywhere close the excuses for this guy for the French Terrorist. The contrast is striking.


You are disgraceful.
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Re: American Opinion On Murderer Mar 23, 2012
kanelli wrote:He should be punished to the full extent of the law.


Well, the BBC reports he will be facing 17 counts of murder and may face the death penalty - but it may take years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17484186



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Shafique
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Re: American Opinion On Murderer Mar 23, 2012
shafique wrote:Let's remember he massacred 16, and 3 times more children that the other terrorist in France


You are a disgrace.
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Re: American Opinion On Murderer Mar 23, 2012
Shaf, why does it matter how many more he killed?
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Re: American Opinion On Murderer Mar 23, 2012
Well, the relevant point is that his massacre of children was as horrific as the massacre in Tolouse. It certainly is not less horrific - he went from house to house, killed the women, children and men systematically and then burned the corpses.

Therefore the moral outrage and treatment of the massacre in Afghanistan is directly comparable to the moral outrage to Tolouse. They are to me - I make no distinction between my dis.gust for the two of them.

The point I made was about whether there will be people who will call for the French Terrorist to be 'cut some slack' to the same extent we see in the OP.

I do not view one set of children as being more precious than another - but stated the statistical reality that he did kill more children. He should not get more sympathy than a terrorist who killed fewer children, IMO.

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Shafique
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Re: American Opinion On Murderer Mar 23, 2012
shafique , military people always get more sympathy because no one likes to see their "heroes" fall into disgrace. Cover it up, or gloss it over. There are many excuses they can give, like war weariness. No doubt there are contributing factors but aren't there always before someone goes over the edge? I always think it is sad when someone chooses to kill others, no matter what the reason.
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Re: American Opinion On Murderer Mar 23, 2012
I understand that there are a number of reasons why the French Terrorist will not see the same sympathy as Bales - being a soldier of the US army is certainly a main factor.

In my opinion, though, he should get as much sympathy as others who massacre children in cold blood. At the very least, he should be called a 'murdering bastard' as one DF member called the French terrorist. (I agree, both are murdering bastards)

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Shafique
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Re: American Opinion on Murderer Mar 23, 2012
You keep repeating the "french" terrorist as if you are trying to forget he was a muslim and he killed in the name of islam, there is nothing french there , he called himself the "islamic warrior" NOT the "french" warrior.
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Re: American Opinion On Murderer Mar 23, 2012
Herve, the guy was French and Muslim. Face the facts.
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Re: American Opinion On Murderer Mar 23, 2012
he could be german, dutch... whatever, the fact is he is a muslim and killed in the name of islam. The killer did not even claim he was french , he claimed he was muslim. Saying he is french is misleading and a move to hide his islamic motives. Are you ashame he is a muslim, are you ashame he used your religion to justify his violence. By ignoring his islamic motives, you are being complacent or even supportive for the next islamic warrior to strike, and then cry about it with crocodile tears.
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Re: American Opinion On Murderer Mar 23, 2012
herve wrote:Saying he is french is misleading and a move to hide his islamic motives. By ignoring his islamic motives, you are being complacent or even supportivefor the next islamic warrior to strike, and then cry about it with crocodile tears.


:idea:

Well said!
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Re: American Opinion On Murderer Mar 23, 2012
herve , he is French. Muslim is not a nationality. If he killed and used his religion as justification, that doesn't change his nationality.

If someone is labeling the kind of terrorist he is based on his own stated affiliation, then he is an Islamic terrorist. He is still a French citizen. So, let's all compromise and label accurately - he's a French Islamic Terrorist. Fair?
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Re: American Opinion On Murderer Mar 23, 2012
kanelli wrote:he is French. Muslim is not a nationality. If he killed and used his religion as justification, that doesn't change his nationality.


I t's NOT about nationality (that's just a piece of paper). European nationality is cheap. It IS about identity.
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Re: American Opinion On Murderer Mar 23, 2012
I couldn't care less if they guy only views himself at primarly Muslim above all else. It doesn't mean that all Muslims in France feel the same way as him or will go out and murder innocent people like he did.
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Re: American Opinion On Murderer Mar 23, 2012
kanelli , I agree, "french islamic terrorist" is accurate . or even "french islamic" since "islamic" and "terrorist" have the same meaning. but I bet you al shafique wont agree to that, and he will find a way to spin it around. He just cannot put "islamic" and "terrorist" together.
and i disagree with you, all muslims support it because they do nothing against it, they say the islamic warrior misunderstood the religion to which he had dedicated his life and for which he was fighting. But what moslems are really doing in mosques in France to make sure that more Muslims there don't misunderstand Islam in the same way that Muhammad Merah did? In fact, no Muslim community in any Western country has any such program or activity , therefore they support it.
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Re: American Opinion On Murderer Mar 23, 2012
So people who blow up oil rigs and animal testing facilities aren't terrorists? Shaf can put those together - as far as I've seen, he doesn't deny that there is such a thing as Islamic terrorism. He can confirm.
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Re: American Opinion On Murderer Mar 23, 2012
Of course there is Jihadist Terrorism or Islamic Terrorism - where terrorists justify their terrorism using religion. I've posted on many occasions how this is a misuse of religion - and how this is exactly the same as Jewish Religious terrorism of Baruch Goldstein, the JDL et al and Christian Terrorism where Christians blow up doctors based on their religious views on abortions.

The French terrorist was indeed an Islamist terrorist and this was indeed a Islamist terror attack - the first for a couple of decades in France.

Brievik says he was 100% Christian, and a Crusader - that makes him a Norwegian Christian Far-Right terrorist.

I would disagree with anyone who said that Goldstein's actions and beliefs means Judaism is inherently evil, or Brievik shows the evil in Christianity. I would similarly disagree with any Islamophobe saying that I view the French Terrorist as a hero - that would be a disgrace to the memory of his victims, for that person will be misusing the atrocity.

Any bigot that argues that the Muslim community supports the terrorist who killed Muslim soldiers and Jewish kids is just speaking out of their behind. Surely no rational person would argue such a piece of nonsense.

Cheers,

Shafique
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Re: American Opinion on Murderer Mar 23, 2012
Do you have any idea why he killed muslim soldiers?
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Re: American Opinion On Murderer Mar 23, 2012
I'm not French and I never met him.

Your question makes as much sense as me asking you 'Do you have any idea why Brievik killed the kids in Norway?'.

The point is he killed Muslim soldiers - and to think that Muslims are condoning this and the killing of the children is just delusional. It is also quite sick that someone would use this terror attack to dishonour the memory of those killed - just to make an Islamophobic point.

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Shafique
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Re: American Opinion On Murderer Mar 23, 2012
well al shafique, you should know, you said you read the quran, or did you not?

In addition, Mohammed Moussaoui , the french top moslem said of the islamic terrorist that "There are French Muslims among this man's enemies," oh really? and why is that?

This truth speaking "mistake" reminded people that for a moslem to fight for France, and aligning himself with the infidel is forbidden in the Qur'an (3:28, 5:51)

Would not you say that muhammad Mehra took those verses seriously?
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Re: American Opinion On Murderer Mar 23, 2012
I do indeed read the Quran and your 'blogger only' version of Islam is consistently contradicted by what is actually in the Quran.

All the Muslims condemning the terrorist attack as unIslamic also read the Quran, as do the French clerics and relgious leaders, and indeed the Muslim soldiers who were killed.

As I said, I am not French and had not met this French Terrorist. I do agree with the French Muslims who condemn his actions as being against Islam. Your view of what Islam teaches is as credible as your belief in internet hoaxes.

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Shafique
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Re: American Opinion On Murderer Mar 23, 2012
And you disagree with the quran that states that fighting for the infidel and aligning with the infidel is forbidden(3:28, 5:51) ?

Sorry but I would not bet my life on that and fight with a moslem in my back who beleive in the quran that fighting with the infidel (ME, US) is forbiden.

Are the 52% of canadians who distrust moslems, islamophobes too?
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Re: American Opinion On Murderer Mar 23, 2012
Yes, I disagree with your Islamophobic, blogger-only, interpretations of Islam. I thought that would be crystal clear by now.

There are Muslims fighting in the British army in Afghanistan, one has died there. You asked me about them as herve, you asked me about them as gertrude. I told you both times I support our troops.

I do agree with the French clerics (who said it in French no less) that the French terrorist's actions have nothing to do with Islamic teaching. You should listen to them rather than to your blogger friends.

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Shafique
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Re: American Opinion On Murderer Mar 23, 2012
If I were you all, I would wait for the news to develop itself for further insight into the motives of these terror attacks..

The news is now developing in the way as if this french muslim guy has also been used by either the French or allied authorities for more political engineering..God knows for what reason, but a senior official who is close to the investigation into Merah told the associated press that there was no sign he had "trained or been in contact with organized groups(al qaeda) or jihadists. LOoL...

in my mind, reading the storyline gets contradictory and suspicious to believe that it was not arranged..

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/artic ... eda-report

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/artic ... dates?bn=1

--- Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:43 pm ---

Herve there is no al qeada terrorism in Afghanistan or in pakistan or in Iraq... 9/11 and all the rest of attacks were arranged by the western powers to occupy and take strategic positions,mainly for more bases to control regions both politically and economicly..

Al qaeda terrorism is used as a propaganda to justify occupation... There are no terrorists to fight for...Terror acts are part of phycological warfare.

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/ ... icle/7350/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2PNzG6q ... re=related





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Re: American Opinion On Murderer Mar 23, 2012
shafique , then I have a lot of friends, already 52% of canadians distrust muslims, do you deny anyone's right to put his trust where he see fits?. you keep avoiding the question. It is my right not to trust muslims and your likes, and unfortunately, events such as the massacre in toulouse by an islamist prove me right.

How many people in the UK distrust muslims, al shafique, what do you do about that, call them islamophobes?
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Re: American Opinion On Murderer Mar 24, 2012
herve, you've lost the previous argument about the Quran etc and now you want me to comment on a headline in a survey!?

You are living down to your reputation of being extremely silly.

However, let me answer you directly (and not cowardly run away from even your silly argument) - the 52% of Canadians who distrust Muslims are likely to be those who haven't yet taken the time to compare the Islamphobic rants the people like you believe in with the reality of what Islam teaches and what Muslims believe. It is encouraging that 48% of Canadians don't mistrust Muslims.

Of the 52%, the number that actively believe in the myths about Islam that you peddle is likely to be around 5% - as this is the probable percentage of silly bigots who can't distinguish propaganda from reality.

If you have any more questions you'd like me to answer - let me know.

Cheers,

Shafique
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Re: American Opinion On Murderer Mar 28, 2012
Lol,my own self professed conspiracy about this French Merah is becoming almost real:))))

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xpqdoh ... rmant_news

http://rt.com/news/toulouse-shooter-fre ... rmant-603/
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