Dubai Forums Dubai Discussions Dubai Politics Talk Philosophy and Religion Forums

The part that comes from an Islamphobic blogger and not an expert. Duh.

C'mon, get your friends to help you out - just find one expert who agrees with your beliefs. Just repeating your belief won't help you.

Cheers,

Shafique

Ah, so the article you provided now is an "Islamophobic" blog.

I guess you're out of arguments for the day.

Just a reminder, killing an adulterous wife is fully legal in the Islamic Republic of Iran. Are you disputing this fact? Or the fact that experts in Islamic law made this legal?

I'm simply pointing out that not one, I repeat NOT ONE, expert has been produced by you or anyone else that agrees with your theory that Islam (or any other religion) is responsible for honour killings.

Only Islamophobic bloggers seem to agree with this leap of flawed logic.

I proposed to Dillon that he should write to the experts who say religion has nothing to do with honour killings and see whether he could persuade them that your theory is right. Do you want to take up the challenge?

Cheers,

Shafique

I'll be happy to send my bullet points to which ever expert of your choosing.

Hey, I might get lucky and they could actually address the excellent points you have been avoiding.

Excellent - why don't you start with the group that compiled the stats in the OP:
http://ikwro.org.uk/

Diana Nammi, the director, is the one who stated that 1 in 3 honour crimes in the UK are not carried out by Muslims.

Here, I'll even get you the contact details from the site:

IKWRO’s Director Diana Nammi regularly acts as a media spokeswoman and has been interviewed for television, radio, print and online media in English, Farsi and Kurdish.

You can contact Diana on 07862 733511 or diana.nammi@gmail.com.

Let us know whether they agree with your theory. Please post both your e-mail to her and her response.

Who knows, perhaps you will eventually find one expert to agree with you?

Cheers,
Shafique

Great, but before I send away my e-mail, I did remember you making a comment that there must be something about Catholic priests and not marrying/remaining abstinent that must explain the predatory behavior of some of them.

So, just out of curiousity, although you did not show that Catholic priests abuse children disproportionately more than social workers, teachers and ministers/rabbis/imams, etc, you did make the assumption anyway.

Yet we know that Muslims carry out a majority of honor killings in the world yet they are a small minority of the world's population. Are Muslims more "tribalistic" than others or is it reasonable to assume, just as you have about Catholic priests, that there must be something about Islam or a warped sense of religiosity amongst Muslims that is the reason Muslims carry out so many more honor killings than other faith groups?

eh - start a new thread and quote me/give the reference. I'll happily discuss Catholicism etc in that thread.

So, will you post the e-mail you send to Diana Nammi or will you just wait for her reply? I think it would best if you copy the e-mail here and then we can see how/if she responds on your views of Islam's involvement in honour killings.

I'd wait for her response and will be fascinated to see whether she agrees with your theory.

I've already stated that I agree with all the experts cited in this thread that say Islam (or any other religion) has nothing to do with honour killings.

Cheers,

Shafique

We have a Muslim scholar explicitly explain that husbands are allowed to kill their wives:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dtfi0LGv ... re=related

Honor killing justified by Muslim scholar in the name of Islam.

Fail. The guy does not say what he is proposing is what Islam allows - the video states this is a discussion on Egyptian adultery law.

Fail. He does

This is yet another example of a Memri special of one guy on a talk show in Egypt.

Also, eh is playing fast and loose with his spin - again. The discussion is about EGYPTIAN adultery law and he's saying that if a man kills his wife it is murder. The only exception is that if he kills her when caught in flagrante, then it is a misdemeanour and not considered murder - i.e. a crime of passion as exists in other countries. This is not an Islamic definition at all. eh is spinning this.

He specifically says that if the man leaves, comes back after an hour and kills the wife -then it is Murder.

Indeed, I wasn't sure that the word 'Islam' or Sharia was mentioned once - perhaps I missed it if it was.

The elephant in the room is that God's punishment for adultery is not death, but 100 lashes - and only after 4 witnesses are to be found. What this guy is proposing is not according to Islam. Simple.

Yet another fail. Islam does not allow honour crimes - and eh boasted that he would e-mail experts on the subject and has yet to do so. Yet another lie?

Big fat fail, eh - better luck next time.

Cheers,
Shafique

The only exception is that if he kills her when caught in flagrante, then it is a misdemeanour and not considered murder - i.e. a crime of passion as exists in other countries. This is not an Islamic definition at all. eh is spinning this.

What's the rule if a wife catches her husband on the nest?

Always handy to know if I go to live in Eygpt.

The discussion is about EGYPTIAN adultery law and he's saying that if a man kills his wife it is murder.

Actually, family law is totally based on Sharia.

That's why husbands can have multiple wives because polygamy is legal under Islam and therefore Egyptian law.

So, yes, this discussion by the Muslim cleric has everything to do with Islam.

The elephant in the room is that God's punishment for adultery is not death, but 100 lashes

Nope, the punishment for adultery is stoning.

and only after 4 witnesses are to be found. What this guy is proposing is not according to Islam. Simple.

You must not know your Koran very well. Husbands can testify three times that their wives committed adultery and that is the equivalent of four male witnesses or eight female.

Fail.

Nice attempt at a save of face though - but Memri and you imagining the word 'Islam' when it was absent is beyond funny.

Cheers,
Shafique

It does not stop.....A young apostate moslem lady and Catholic convert speaks out after fleeing her Muslim family following 'honour killing' threat. she reveales how she fears for her life after her strict Muslim parents threatened to kill her when she dared to refuse an arranged marriage
Police forces in England and Wales recorded at least 2,800 moslem honour attacks during 2010.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... lling.html

Don't let her parents' religious devoutness or the fact she is targeted in part because she changed her religion fool you; this has nothing what-so-ever to do with Islam.

event horizon wrote:I'll be happy to send my bullet points to which ever expert of your choosing.

We're still waiting for eh to make good this empty boast. Until he does, it looks pretty much like he was lying.

shafique wrote:So, will you post the e-mail you send to Diana Nammi or will you just wait for her reply? I think it would best if you copy the e-mail here and then we can see how/if she responds on your views of Islam's involvement in honour killings.

Is event horizon "All mouth, no trousers"?

Cheers,

Shafique

al shafique boasts the Daily mail when it reports an alleged "racist" attack against a moslem woman, let s see how he boasts the daily mail when it says that a large number of young British moslems support violence against women who 'dishonour' their families, as a Panorama investigation reported today.
'Honour' violence is acceptable, say one in five young British moslems
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2117003/Honour-violence-acceptable-say-young-British-Asians.html#ixzz1pj1vxSgz

herve - you really must try to focus.

Anyone carrying out honour killings is a criminal - anyone supporting them is supporting a criminal act. Islam does not condone honour killings in anyway, not does it allow s.ex outside marriage, underage marriage or even forced marriages.

You seem to be confusing the fact that there are Muslims who break the law with what Islam teaches.

Cheers,

Shafique

Islam does not condone honour killings in anyway, not does it allow s.ex outside marriage, underage marriage or even forced marriages.

Well then, how old was Aisha when Muhammad married her?

And why not quote Muslim scholars just to be sure that Islam does not allow for s.ex outside marriage or underage marriage?

Unless you have a following, I'd say their interpretation of Islam goes farther than what you tell others Islam allows.

shafique wrote:We're still waiting for eh to make good this empty boast. Until he does, it looks pretty much like he was lying.

We'll get to new (old) questions you may wish to pose after you make good your boast and e-mail the expert whose address I even gave you.

What's the matter? Afraid she'll laugh at you?

Cheers,

Shafique