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According to a recently linked article on the forum, the Arabic word taqteel is used to prescribe the execution of "mischief makers" in the following Koranic passage:

Koran 5:33 - This is the recompense of those who fight against God and His Messenger, and hasten about the earth, to do corruption there: they shall be slaughtered, or crucified, or their hands and feet shall alternately be struck off; or they shall be banished from the land. That is a degradation for them in this world; and in the world to come awaits them a mighty chastisement,

The word translated as slaughtered is yuqattalu, a tense of the verb taqteel.

However, taqteel apparently means to execute someone in such a way that there is severity in the process of killing.

http://www.monthly-renaissance.com/issu ... spx?id=955

Or, according to another website: Taqteel in the Arabic language means to kill in a very painful manner.

http://www.understanding-islam.com/q-an ... t-for-rape

Taqteel: killing in a severe or painful manner.

So, shafique, please offer your opinion on taqeel form of execution.

Does shafique support executing people in a severe or painful fashion?

If not, how do you, shafique, reconcile your belief with what the Koran allows?

If you support severe and painful executions, could you please explain if your current position contradicts any previous stance on execution you may have provided on the forum?

Edit: Additional information http://books.google.com/books?id=04B-mS ... lu&f=false

The Arabic word used for slaughter is yuqattalu, which is simply a different tense of the word taqteel. (?)

QTL apparently being the root for both words.

Edit 2: The following book seems to confirm that taqteel and yuqattalu are different tenses of the same word, such as:

to swim
I swim -> I swam (past tense)
he/she swims
I have swum (past participle w/ helper verb)

Are all different tenses of the verb "swim" or "to swim".

Taqtil is the imperfect tense and yuqattalu is the aoriat tense (whatever that is).

http://books.google.com/books?id=bB4UAA ... &q&f=false

^^ this is what I call baiting.

I'll wait for BM to tell him off for baiting.

Death by lethal injection is often a cruel and painful execution.. see 'science of killing' the BBC documentary.

Eh, as FD says 'only cowards run when confronted' - so let me offer you a deal. I'll clarify your latest cut and paste from a random blog site and give you the correct Islamic theory WHEN you tackle your outstanding questions:

philosophy-dubai/biblical-confusion-t47353.html

Are you a coward when it comes to your questions?

Until you answer these, I won't respond to your cuts and pastes from anti-Muslim websites. (And in any case, these rants against Islam are easily debunked by readers who can do their own research - eh's misunderstanding, yet again, stems from a misunderstanding that comes from cutting and pasting from random blog sites. The explanation is ready and waiting for eh AFTER he answers his questions.)

Cheers,

Shafique

shafique wrote:I'll wait for BM to tell him off for baiting.

May be thinks if you can't beat 'em join 'em? After all, you are an expert.

Just as I thought - no condemnation.

Cheers,

Shafique

There's no flies on you this morning, is there Sherlock?

Nope.

Anyway - as my edit above shows, I have a comprehensive answer ready for eh once he tackles the outstanding questions he has.

Cheers,

Shafique

If only you tackled your outstanding questions, you might be taken more seriously.

Stop trolling BM. It is eh that is the coward that runs away from questions (much like herve hiding behind made up lady personas!)

But let's see, perhaps eh will answer his outstanding questions so that I can post the answer to his question and show why yet again he shouldn't believe what random bloggers tell him.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Stop trolling BM. It is eh that is the coward that runs away from questions (much like herve hiding behind made up lady personas!)

When you stop baiting, I might consider it.

Bethsmum wrote:When you stop baiting, I might consider it.

He can't, he just can't. Pratically every post of Shaf is full with trolling and baiting. Constant whining and nagging, like a small child.

Death by lethal injection is often a cruel and painful execution.. see 'science of killing' the BBC documentary.

No it's not. Only if the procedure is done improperly. There's nothing painful about lethal injection when done properly.

I'll clarify your latest cut and paste from a random blog site and give you the correct Islamic theory WHEN you tackle your outstanding questions:

The only cut and paste was from Muslim websites. One of these Muslim websites was a site you posted from yourself. So, by definition, that isn't random.

Until you answer these, I won't respond to your cuts and pastes from anti-Muslim websites.

I think you must see "anti-Muslim" websites behind every shadow.

But at least you'll respond to my question in this thread since no "anti-Muslim" websites have been quoted.

Otherwise, I'm confused what you accuse me of cuting and pasting from "anti-Muslim" websites.

The majority of religious books talk about barbaric punishment for crimes because life was short and hard, and life was basically worth less in the days when those texts were written. That's why it would be a huge mistake in modern society to continue to favour such punishments. A higher code of ethics and human rights should be put forward than what is presented in old religious texts.

event horizon wrote:No it's not. Only if the procedure is done improperly. There's nothing painful about lethal injection when done properly.

I suggest you look at the documentary - it's available on youtube. The point is that sometimes it is done improperly.

You can also see what a peer-reviewed study on lethal injections in the US found when they looked into whether they were being done correctly:
http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/inf ... ed.0040156

The first injection paralyses the body but the prisoner is still concious and can feel pain if the 'painkiller' part doesn't work - I forget the details. What is a bit frightening is that when Portillo talks to an advocate of the death penalty and brings up this point, the guy says that the criminal SHOULD suffer, and he has no problem with it.

Anyway eh - I have indeed assumed you got your screed from an anti-Muslim website as any reputable Arabic speaker, Arabix lexicon or any Quran commentary would have stopped your confusion in its tracks.

I'm waiting for you to answer all the outstanding quesitons on the Bible first though - I mean, if you can't/won't answer questions about your beliefs of the Bible, why should I clear up your confusions over the Quran? I suspect you won't answer your questions.. so this way I save a bit of time and energy and watch you come up with creative excuses for your cowardice (as some say someone who does not answer questions is a coward)

Cheers,

Shafique

kanelli wrote:The majority of religious books talk about barbaric punishment for crimes because life was short and hard,

No punishment is barbaric, barbaric is the malicious attitute of man that leads humanity into all sorts of corruption,humiliation,terrorism like evil practises all around the world...without such serious punishments you can take no control of the bad side of human nature and oppression..

If you read quran you will see that Allah praises higher qualities in all of humans while describing all the virtues every human must pursue, meanwhile he is warning and condeming those with bad attitute against his will and against benefit of humanity, consequently offering just punishments to combat those who are wrong and corrupting purity of man, humanity and progress..

I am sure you have read many novels and all sorts of books to this day kanelli, I suggest you read quran once or twice out of curiosity, you will see that it isn't a book to be hated...

Many wise people do and see the beauty in the message.. She is one of them...

Anyway eh - I have indeed assumed you got your screed from an anti-Muslim website as any reputable Arabic speaker, Arabix lexicon or any Quran commentary would have stopped your confusion in its tracks.

Read posts and click links and your confusion will be cleared up. Every bit of information in my opening post comes from Muslim sources and an Arabic grammar book. Filibustering and pretending you have the actual answer isn't convincing.

Therefore, based on what you already said in this thread, you should answer the question posed to you - do you support "severe and painful" executions - such as crucifixion and taqteel execution?

Well, all will become clear to all eh when you finally get round to answer your outstanding questions on the Bible listed above and then I can finally clear up your confusion over this one word.

So, will you answer your questions or not?

Cheers,

Shafique

You claimed you won't respond to this thread (before the post was edited THREE times) because it was a "cut and paste" from anti-Muslim websites.

After you were informed that every bit of information came from Muslim websites you still refuse to respond.

That makes you a liar.

Name calling and filibustering won't help you disguise the fact that you aren't answering your questions, nor the fact that I will indeed remove your confusion when you answer your questions.

It shows that you are not really interested in the answer after all (and when you see the answer, you can then tell us which blogger confused you).

But I will wait to see whether you answer the questions about the Bible first or not. I suspect you are just ashamed of your faith. I, on the other hand, can and will correct your misunderstanding.

Cheers,

Shafique

Calling you a liar is a statement of fact.

But I see your point. You incorrectly claimed (lied) that I had copy-pasted from anti-Muslim websites.

I guess the truth of what the Koran says was so devastating that you believed it was distorted by anti-Muslims.

I suppose it shows just how ashamed you are of your faith. (That and you won't defend Mirza Ghulam)

Unfortunately the facts are that the Koran calls for "painful execution" in addition to crucifixion, which you have recently admitted "to cruficy" means to put to death.

I have an answer ready and waiting.

Will you answer your questions about the Bible so that I can post it? The evidence so far is that you won't.

Cheers,

Shafique