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LOL, i dont noe about penetrating monkeys but i'll look it up. Chappelle is a legend and if he said it im sure its funny, jus lighten up will ya !

There is nothing wrong with anyone's upbringing and anyone's view of women.

2 girls : one is a prostitute, one is probably a chastity church girl but they are both dressed the same way. I dont know who's problem it is but its a problem. Why is it a problem? Because they act in very different and contradicting ways. If you meet the whore first then the church girl you will automatically assume the church girl is a whore as well. If you meet the church girl first then the whore, you'd assume the whore is a church girl as well.

Our brain just works that way, if you meet a guy wearing a kandoura on the road you will assume he's arab . simple.

If there are 2 guys: one wants a whore and one wants a virgin, they are gonna find it difficult to get the right girl. That's where the problem arises

A hooker and a nun look pretty different , but if they didnt, your telling me there won't be a problem :S

Actually I still think Chappelle explained it better

--- Feb 27, 2012 ---

And if the man thinks she is a ´whore´, then what?

...then if he wants a whore he will go upto her and ask her to bang him on the table and she would get offended
...or if he didn't want a whore but a girlfriend then he would ignore her and she would loose out on prince charming

tony - I'd say that most people would understand Chappelle's point the same way you have explained. I certainly did.

FD - I do agree with you that there is no excuse for a man harrassing any woman, and indeed you know that Islam teaches that both men and women should avert their eyes - and remain moral whatever the situation.

Dave Chappelle didn't say that hoe's dress like classy women, but that there is a way of dressing that can be termed a 'hoe's uniform'. He makes a funny point - but what he's saying is pretty obvious when you think about it.

Cheers,

Shafique

I have seen women in abaya prostituting themselves in satwa, I am wise enough to realize not every woman in an abaya is a prostitute. Likewise, I think there is something very wrong with a person thinking a woman in a miniskirt and tight tank top as a 'hoe'. That says much more abt the man than the woman, dont you think? What is the point Dave is trying to make concerning she asked for it?

FD - stop being deliberately dense. Dave Chappelle explicitly starts his sequence by saying that women are right - dressing like a whore does not make you a whore. Indeed, you makes a similar point - someone dressing like an observant Muslim woman does not mean they are an observant Muslim woman . Someone in a Police Uniform may not actually be a Policeman.

His point was that it 'is confusing' for him and his friends - to see women dress in what they all recognise as a 'whore's uniform'.

Now, if you accept the underlying point that there IS a way of dressing that people will recognise with whores, then you'll get the point. It is really quite obvious.

No where does he say that a lady dressed in a whores uniform should be abused in any way.

Cheers,

Shafique

My point of reference of how a prostitutes dresses is the rld in the Dam. When going out I have never seen women dressed that way. What is your point of reference shaf? The movies?

An observant Muslim woman?

Dave was quite explicit about what he terms as a 'whore's uniform' - and how it is confusing when non-whores choose to dress that way.

Not all whores wear the whore's uniform when at work, that is true - same go for Policemen in plain clothes, or undercover. We are not talking about them - but rather about women who choose to dress in what Dave calls and describes as 'whores uniform'.

It is not about what you think about me.

Cheers,
Shafique

So the point of reference is a comedian? .

Better take all the confusion away: there is only one criterium for a woman being a prostitute, and that is when she is asking money for it. And NOT the way she dresses. I hope that takes away the confusion, and can prevent embarassing situations . Also seeing a woman in a miniskirt as a 'hoe', is the beginning of the slippery slop of "she asked for it". When I see a woman in a miniskirt and a deep decolete, it never crossed my mind she is a 'hoe', that would be wrong.

FD wrote:
I am think lashing pregnant female fornicators is abuse of the worst kind.

You have to remember few things before abusing or beloved religion of our beloved Master...

1. To bring forward 4 witness to accuse a female for fornication is impossible unless she does it very openly out in the public, like takes it up as a job i.e. prostitution..

2. If a female fornicator's pregnancy is confirmed by physical/medical evidence, she cannot be lashed until she gives birth as Islam protects the honor of the pregnant woman, as well as sanctity of the life of unborn..

3. Lashing is not as scary as you thing as it is not meant to kill or disable you..But obviously it will give some pain in the a$$:)

4. Lashing in Islam isn't introduced because there is some sadistic pleasure out of whipping people but because Islam does not condone society moving into uncontrollable immorality and promiscuous relations causing loss of trust and disorder among the people of society..

Berrin wrote: Lashing is not as scary as you thing as it is not meant to kill or disable you..But obviously it will give some pain in the a$$:)

Are you having a laugh?

Berrin wrote:1. To bring forward 4 witness to accuse a female for fornication is impossible unless she does it very openly out in the public, like takes it up as a job i.e. prostitution..

Is pregnancy itself of an unmarried woman not considered as enough proof for fornication?

No, you still have to bring forward 4 witness becouse the ultimate punishment is with Allah, not with humans unless there is real evidence and proof for it..

Berrin wrote: To bring forward 4 witness to accuse a female for fornication is impossible unless she does it very openly out in the public, like takes it up as a job i.e. prostitution..

Would it be ok to get 4 of your friends to say they had seen the female fornicating?

Is there any punishment for men who fornicate?

The punishment is for both men and women - and the need is to have 4 witnesses who witnessed the act.

If someone accuses a woman of fornication and can't back up the accusation, they are punished.

Cheers,

Shafique

--- Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:49 pm ---

Flying Dutchman wrote:So the point of reference is a comedian?

A comedian describing what a 'hoe's uniform' is to him and his friends, yes.

Do tell me that this isn't the extent of your argument against the point he makes - 'he's a comedian'. Now that would be funny.

Cheers,

Shafique

Berrin ,

In my view this is from the dark ages.

Muslims have to disagree with you on that one kanelli - as for us these laws, and the safeguards, are from God.

To me, as long as the whole law is implemented in a holistic way - they are a part of a formula that is logical and beneficial to society. It is pretty much impossible to get 4 witnesses to testify to seeing the act of penetration (which is the level of proof required), so God's punishment of lashes if this level of proof is met is just to me.

Cheers,

Shafique

tony89 , pretty much! It is naive for women to dress very provocatively and then be shocked that men proposition them or stare at them uncomfortably. (Its all a matter of perception though, since in Dubai I still got stared at sometimes even when wearing a long sleeved shirt and pants.) Of course, it isn't justifying rape. The research says that rape is mainly an issue of violence and not se.x though, so the kind of man who rapes is not choosing women based on what they are wearing - any woman could be a target in the right circumstances.

tony89 , pretty much! It is naive for women to dress very provocatively and then be shocked that men proposition them or stare at them uncomfortably.

Not if those women are from societies where propositioning women is frowned upon.

event horizon wrote:Not if those women are from societies where propositioning women is frowned upon.

Which country is it where women dress provocatively and don't expect to be propositioned/chatted up etc?

Just asking - out of curiosity.

Cheers,

Shafique

The countries where it's illegal to proposition women.

Which countries are they then? Seriously - do the women in those particular countries who dress provocatively do not expect to be propositioned or chatted up?



Cheers,

Shafique

shafique wrote:Seriously - do the women in those particular countries who dress provocatively do not expect to be propositioned or chatted up?

Are you really that ignorant? I bet you are, 100% ignorant. You are a real creep!

Yes, in this case it is a genuine, serious question.

In which country/society to women dress provocatively and then do not expect to be chatted up, attract the attention of etc of the opposite s.ex? Eh says it is countries where it is illegal to proposition a lady.

Why would a society make something illegal if it is not something that the men do?

Cheers,

Shafique

Yeah, I guess that's why brother-sister marriages are illegal or Muslim nations have blasphemy laws.

Otherwise it would be common.

Is that a country?

What a strange way to not answer a simple question.

Yet again we seem to reach a point where a claim is made and eh can't back it up. Sigh.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:In which country/society to women dress provocatively and then do not expect to be chatted up, attract the attention of etc of the opposite s.ex?

Countries where being a lesbian or bisex.ual is legal amongst others.

I didn't know this supposed knowledge is such a big secret that you won't tell me the names of the countries/societies where eh thinks that a woman dressing provocatively does not expect to attact attention, be chatted up or propositioned by men?

Is it in all countries where lesbianism is legal? Do the women know this? Do the men know this?

Or is this just another example of eh posting something before he thought it through?

Cheers,

Shafique

How in hell did you get the idea that women who dress according to you provocative in general want to be propositioned? What or who gave you that idea?

You must be thinking of your own community.

I don't personally know anyone who has propositioned someone.

So I don't see why women would expect to be propositioned.

Why don´t you do your own research Shaf? And get in touch with English society. Next time you are in Londen, go to Soho, a musical, whatever, and ask the women who you deem dress provocative whether they dress this way because they want to be propositioned. I think most will find you a creep. But go on and try it.