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On another thread, herve correctly pointed out the parallels between Islam and fascism.

According to the following article, the key components of fascism are:

A Fascism Scale

- Leadership Principle - absolute rule by an individual
- Group is superior to and more important than the individual
- Own group is superior to other groups
- Veneration of heroic traditions and (sometimes mythical) bygone days (eg: Romans, Norse sagas, Samurai, imperial Spain)
- Struggle and death are glorious - cult of heroism
- Cult of action and activism
- Frustration: sense of collective injustice inflicted by foreign enemies.
- Militarist expansionism - World or regional domination is a central goal
- Political repression: Suppression of liberty and intellectual life
- Racism

http://www.mideastweb.org/log/archives/00000523.htm

Although I disagree with the author on the last point. Fascist systems are not inherently racist even if they have been historically.

But we see that the other key characteristics of fascism are also found in Islam.

Victor Hanson, writing on the similarity between fascism and Islam further explains the "veneration of heroic traditions" unique to both ideologies:

Islamic fascism is also anti-democratic and characteristically reactionary. It conjures up a past of Islamic influence that existed before the supposed corruption of modernism. Like Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo, who sought to recapture lost mythical Aryan, Roman or samurai purity, so Islamic fascists talk in romantic terms of the ancient caliphate.

http://www.writersreps.com/feature.aspx?FeatureID=72

Needless to say, every other characteristic can demonstrably be shown to exist in mainstream interpretations of Islam - the cult of death (martyrdom), absolute authority to a reactionary government, militarism, political repression, supremacist beliefs and ultra nationalism (in the case of Islam, it is the Muslim Ummah (state or volk) that is superior to the non-Muslim world, tellingly known as the "house of war" [Dar al-harb] by Muslims.

There is abundant litterature, videos and other indisputable facts online that expose similarities between nazism and islam.
Though I would not call islamo fascism, since islam is fascist, it is a repeat word. It s like saying fascismo fascism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK2ukVCo ... ntrinter=1

This is simply an Islamophobic myth that is the equivalent of Nazi propaganda against Judaism. Event Horizon also believes that Nazism is left-wing - which is as silly as this Islamophobic myth.

Only extreme anti-Muslims believe in this screed.

Eh is an extremist American Christian who believes what Islamphobic bloggers tell him about Islam. He's open about being anti-Islam - calling the Prophet, pbuh, an imposter and God a 'false deity':

even horizon wrote:So you're using the Koran to show their impostor prophet worshiped the same deity as Christians and Jews?
...
Christians and Jews do not accept your false deity just as they do not accept your false prophet.

(Whereas Jews have exactly the same concept of God as Muslims, and reject eh's belief in a Trinitarian God - so Jews don't accept Christian's 'Christ being God')

But for the truth about Islamic teachings on governance is clear - and can be discussed in the religion forum. It is against Fascist principles - and many examples of Islamic teachings in practice in history testifty to this fact. The Islamophobic myth relies on picking out exceptional events and periods or misrepresenting others. Serious historians and anyone who looks into the allegations reject the spin and can easily see it is all myth.

Here's a small round up of why it is a Myth, taken from Wiki's entry for Islamofascism. Note that Niall Ferguson is pretty right-wing and not a fan of Islam (but is a good historian and I've read most of his books and watched his documentaries):

The term, "Islamofascism" has been criticized by several scholars[11] and journalists. Historian Niall Ferguson[12] and international relations scholar Angelo Codevilla consider it historically inaccurate and simplistic.[13] Author Richard Alan Nelson criticized the term as being generally used as a pejorative or for propaganda[14][15] purposes. Tony Judt argued in a September 2006 article in the London Review of Books that use of the term was intended to reduce the War on Terror to "a familiar juxtaposition that eliminates exotic complexity and confusion", criticising authors who use the term Islamo-fascism and present themselves as experts despite not having previous expertise about Islam.[16]
...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamofascism#Criticism

Cheers,
Shafique

izlamic fascism by Mus'ab Hassan Yousuf, Son of Hamas Leader

he is a reputable source and can be trusted when he says the kran calls for terrorism and fascism

Eh is an extremist American Christian who believes what Islamphobic bloggers tell him about Islam. He's open about being anti-Islam - calling the Prophet, pbuh, an imposter and God a 'false deity':

So by your logic:

All atheists
Majority of Jews and Christians

are "extremist "Islamophobes

Because they, like me, do not accept Muhammad as a prophet and view him an impostor.

You might as well throw in all Muslims who do not accept your prophet, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, for good measure.

Is one who does not accept Mirza Ghulam and view him an "impostor" an Islamophobe?

Why or why not?

(Whereas Jews have exactly the same concept of God as Muslims, and reject eh's belief in a Trinitarian God - so Jews don't accept Christian's 'Christ being God')

So are they Christianophobes? Why is it "Islamophobic" to deny the existence of Muslim allah and view Muhammad a false prophet? Pray tell. I'm curious to read more on your brilliant logic.

But for the truth about Islamic teachings on governance is clear - and can be discussed in the religion forum. It is against Fascist principles - and many examples of Islamic teachings in practice in history testifty to this fact.

Every key fascist characteristic on the list is matched by Muslim belief and doctrine.

Here's a small round up of why it is a Myth, taken from Wiki's entry for Islamofascism. Note that Niall Ferguson is pretty right-wing and not a fan of Islam (but is a good historian and I've read most of his books and watched his documentaries):

Not according to the list showing the key characteristics of fascism and how they overlap perfectly with Islam.

Every key characteristic is a perfect match for Islam, in particular:

Islamic fascism is also anti-democratic and characteristically reactionary. It conjures up a past of Islamic influence that existed before the supposed corruption of modernism. Like Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo, who sought to recapture lost mythical Aryan, Roman or samurai purity, so Islamic fascists talk in romantic terms of the ancient caliphate.

Yup.

A Fascism Scale

- Leadership Principle - absolute rule by an individual
- Group is superior to and more important than the individual
- Own group is superior to other groups
- Veneration of heroic traditions and (sometimes mythical) bygone days (eg: Romans, Norse sagas, Samurai, imperial Spain)
- Struggle and death are glorious - cult of heroism
- Cult of action and activism
- Frustration: sense of collective injustice inflicted by foreign enemies.
- Militarist expansionism - World or regional domination is a central goal
- Political repression: Suppression of liberty and intellectual life

Everything key characteristic of fascism is inherent to political Islam.

Why always a rant when confronted with clear, concise facts?

Here, let me summarise it even more for you - your belief in 'Islamofascism' is:

- historically inaccurate and simplistic.
and
use of the term was intended to reduce the War on Terror to "a familiar juxtaposition that eliminates exotic complexity and confusion", criticising authors who use the term Islamo-fascism and present themselves as experts despite not having previous expertise about Islam.

An Islamophobic myth remains an Islamophobic myth regardless of the volume of cuts and pastes and non-arguments you can paste.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:An Islamophobic myth remains an Islamophobic myth

We have recently seen what that means: considering Muhammed an imposter is already phobic, are not accepting allah as god. Event horizon made a good point, meaning that people calling your prophet Ghulam an imposter are also phobes.

Thanks for your commentary FD.

A myth is a myth because it is untrue. A myth that is anti-Muslim and misrepresents Islam is an Islamophobic myth. Now, people wanting to believe the Islamophobic myths is an interesting phenomenon - and more a sign of their underlying hatred/aversion to Islam.

Islamophobes are those who willingly want to believe Islamophobic myths. I'm not sure why you feel the need to project this label onto others - perhaps it is a week 'smoke and mirrors' defence, in lieu of actually tackling the points I made and linked to about why Islamofascism is a myth.

In this case, the evidence and reasoning behind why this is a myth are given in my initial post.

A simple and clear example of the usual tactic of spinning and generalising/stereotyping. Historically inaccurate and simplistic.

Cheers
Shafique

A whole post without addressing actually a thing that is written. Well done .

I am quite certain this whole thread was about the Islamophobic myth.

Are you thinking of a different thread?

Cheers,

Shafique

shafique wrote:I am quite certain this whole thread was about the Islamophobic myth.

Its about Islamofascism. Mentioning the OP thinks Muhammed is an imposter in your first reply is just ridiculous and even more so connecting that to Islamophobia, whatever that may be. When event horizon wants to elaborate on the subject and exposes your prophet as an imposter you come with your usual non-sense. It seems impossible for you to come up with any substantial argument(s) against the point of view that Islam has a lot of common with fascism.

Thanks for your opinion.

I do think that the fact that the myth of Islamofascism is held by 'experts' with little real knowledge of Islam and a lot of anti-Muslim hate is indeed relevant.

Even right-wing pro-imperialist historians such as Niall Fergusson dismiss the myth and call it inaccurate and simplistic.

I've tackled why some people believe the myth and also why it is a myth.

Cheers,

Shafique

A Fascism Scale

- Leadership Principle - absolute rule by an individual
- Group is superior to and more important than the individual
- Own group is superior to other groups
- Veneration of heroic traditions and (sometimes mythical) bygone days (eg: Romans, Norse sagas, Samurai, imperial Spain)
- Struggle and death are glorious - cult of heroism
- Cult of action and activism
- Frustration: sense of collective injustice inflicted by foreign enemies.
- Militarist expansionism - World or regional domination is a central goal
- Political repression: Suppression of liberty and intellectual life

Islam shares every key characteristic of fascism on the fascism scale.

Resorting to cuts and pastes doesn't change the reality that you can't or won't address that simple fact.

My point was that this myth is both simplistic and inaccurate, and that only people who share your hatred of Islam and Muslims want to believe it.

When even Niall Fergusson is saying you are wrong, it should be a warning sign for you to pause and wonder whether cutting and pasting stuff from Islamophobic websites does your credibility any favours.

Cheers,

Shafique

and that only people who share your hatred of Islam and Muslims want to believe it.

Nice fallacy.

You've got no argument.

As I've said before, you're all smoke-and-mirrors.

You've got repeat mode and some fallacies up your sleeve.

Without the above, you're a fish out of water in debate.

This is what years of Islam does to one's brain. Making the believer incapable of any logical thought process.

Spot on, EH

Interesting rant, especially after I summarised why this is an Islamophobic myth - i.e. because it is:

historically inaccurate and simplistic.

and

use of the term was intended to reduce the War on Terror to "a familiar juxtaposition that eliminates exotic complexity and confusion", criticising authors who use the term Islamo-fascism and present themselves as experts despite not having previous expertise about Islam.

Cheers,

Shafique

I did not see anything from you to prove that islam is not fascism other than you just saying it is islamophobic. So many links have been posted that show similarities bewtween izlam and fascism, it is all over the internet , just google it. this is how to do it , al shafique.

open your google search engine, type in the window on top "fascism and islam" then click search. You will see hundreds of pages directing you to websites, very informative, with pictures and lectures, and how izlam is fascist, and how moslems promote doctrines close to fascism.

Your over use of the world islamophobic is also a non sense. you make it sound like people are using it like they would use words such as cancerphobic, or bubonicplaguephobic.

Again you should use the word ISLAMONAUSEA, this is the official word for what you mean

herve, you believe in a fantasy version of Islam. In your world, Islam is fascism.

You rely on bloggers who use

term Islamo-fascism and present themselves as experts despite not having previous expertise about Islam.

Cheers,

Shafique

Who is talking?

You really must learn to distinguish between your day job (writer of fiction) and reality.

Cheers,

Shafique

why dont you publish your rants, is your name shafique boohnooh or something?

You're a fiction writer who believes in myths such as the internet hoax about Hamas 'paedophillia marriages'

You even invent myths and conspiracy theories - such as I am 'DearJohn'. Now you've come up with a conspiracy myth that I don't read the Quran!

Cheers,

Shafique

Why don't you want to compare the KEY CHARACTERISTICS of fascism with Islam?

Anything on the list you don't think is found in Islam or Muslim sentiment?

There's no need - anyone and everyone can easily compare the teachings of Islam (core and peripheral) with fascism and make up their own minds whether the Islamophobic myth has any merits.

When even Niall Fergusson etc say this myth is simplistic and inaccurate, there's really no doubt about this being a myth.

Cheers,

Shafique

- Struggle and death are glorious - cult of heroism

Let's start out with the above similarity between fascism and Islam - Islam's death cult:





We desire death like you desire life

Prophet Muhammad - By Him in Whose Hands my life is! I would love to be martyred in Allah's Cause and then get resurrected and then get martyred, and then get resurrected again and then get martyred and then get resurrected again and then get martyred.

Khalid B. Walid - You [Khosru and his people] should convert to Islam, and then you will be safe, for if you don't, you should know that I have come to you with an army of men that love death, as you love life.

Death cult.

But my personal favorite:

Allah's Apostle said, "Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords

Struggle and death are glorious - cult of heroism - key characteristic of fascism; key characteristic of Islam

The only problem eh is that you are confusing the Islamophobic blogger version of Islam with reality.

Why not address why credible experts explain why your myth is simplistic and inaccurate?

Cheers,

Shafique

shafique wrote:Why not address why credible experts explain why your myth is simplistic and inaccurate?

In general, people make up their own minds instead of hiding behind opinions of others. Why not simply just addressing the points, of which some are certainly valid IMHO.

I happen to agree with the reasons given by the experts why the myth is both simplistic and historically inaccurate.

The myth only makes sense if one believes in a charicature of Islam that only Islamophobic bloggers believe - when we look at the reality of Islam it is pretty easy to reach the same conclusions that Fergusson et al have reached.

Each has to make up their mind whether to believe the comparisons and examples eh has produced or whether to believe me and the experts quoted who state that this is a myth. There's enough info already for people to make up their own minds.

Cheers,

Shafique

By Him in Whose Hands my life is! I would love to be martyred in Allah's Cause and then get resurrected and then get martyred, and then get resurrected again and then get martyred and then get resurrected again and then get martyred. - Prophet Muhammad

vs

The myth only makes sense if one believes in a charicature of Islam that only Islamophobic bloggers believe - when we look at the reality of Islam it is pretty easy to reach the same conclusions that Fergusson et al have reached.


I guess all those suicide bombers in the Muslim world - and the Muslim communities who praise them - are a myth as well.

Muhammad said "know that Paradise is under the shades of swords".

Sounds like glorifiying struggle and death to me - a key characteristic of shafique's fascist religion.