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event horizon · Dec 15, 2011

So Iranian Islamic law does not decriminalize husbands who honor kill their adulterous wives?

Hmmm....

In case you may have forgotten:

*Honor killings are carried out by religious Muslims, not uneducated or poor.

* Honor killings carried out by Muslims are carried out for religious reasons - a family member is accused of committing apostasy or having premarital relationships of some sort - all strictly forbidden under Islam.

*Actual honor killings in Hinduism are rare and Sikhs (a religion that is a hybrid of Islam and Hinduism) honor killings seem to be limited to wives, unlike Muslim honor killings where children are just as vulnerable

* Honor killings are universal in the Muslim world - all Muslim peoples, regardless of culture, geography and so on are known to commit honor killings.

* Islamic Law in several Islamic nations condones or has condoned honor killings. The Iranian Mullahs would be happy to testify that they condone honor killing violence. It isn't secular statesmen in Iran who make and enforce the law in the Islamic Republic.

* The law of retaliation in Islam provides convenient loopholes for honor killers. Honor killers in Pakistan are usually set free after the family of the victim (the same family as the murderer) requests a pardon. If Muslim society is generally supportive of honor crimes under an Islamic legal system, then it is virtually impossible for the courts to punish the perpetrators.

* Muslims, a religious minority in the world, carry out a majority of honor killings.

shafique · Dec 15, 2011

Why do you think listing a set of beliefs that only Islamophobic bloggers seem to believe will convince anyone? Still waiting to hear one expert that agrees with you.

But, may I ask yet again, what does your interpretation of Iranian law have to do with the honour crimes in the UK? Certainly, it has nothing to do with the 3 million crimes against women, of which less than 1% are honour crimes.

Can you not provide at least one expert that shares your belief? On pg 1 of this thread, the experts quoted explicitly say you are wrong to link the crimes to religion.

Cheers,

shafique

event horizon · Dec 16, 2011

The Islamic experts in Iran disagree - hence honor killings are legal or condoned.

shafique · Dec 16, 2011

What has your view of Iranian law got to do with the honour crimes in the UK? You're losing it eh.

3 million crimes against women in the UK, of which less than 1% are honour crimes. Of these, 1 in 3 are by non-Muslims. Why are you bringing in your interpretation of Iranian law? :roll:

Could it be because you can't produce ONE expert who agrees with your theory that you got from Islamophobic bloggers? The only experts on the subject quoted in this thread all say religion has nothing to do with these crimes.

Cheers,

Shafique

gertrude · Dec 16, 2011

this trolling is non sense, everyone knows , and experts confirm that islam is the main jutification for honor murders, in the UK, France, Belgium, Pakistan, Iran....anywhere.
There was abundant evidence in this thread, links, and facts to support that islam is the main jutification for honor murders.
Repeating the opposite over and over 200 hundred times, does not change these facts.

shafique · Dec 16, 2011

What experts are those gertrude? (serious question) Surely you're not confusing what Islamophobic bloggers claim with the truth?

Surely there must be ONE expert out there you can quote that agrees with you? The experts quoted in this thread all say religion has nothing to do with these crimes.

Cheers,
Shafique

gertrude · Dec 16, 2011

The best of all, it s called the Kuran.

shafique · Dec 16, 2011

As I thought - no expert at all, only what some Islamophobic bloggers want to believe. Sad really.

But thanks for proving my point.

Cheers,

Shafique

gertrude · Dec 16, 2011

what is the definition of "islamophobic blogger" are not they just telling the truth about Islam.

Your point? you have no point, that s the point. People still don't trust Muslims, still reject Muslims, still dislike Muslims because of their appalling standards.

shafique · Dec 16, 2011

An Islamophobic blogger is someone with no credentials other than their hatred of Islam. An expert on the subject would be any one of the experts quoted in this thread - such as those on pg 1 which say honour crimes have nothing to do with any religion.

Note that no one here has actually quoted ANY expert in favour of your views - I've just made the point that the only people I could find who agreed with your theory are Islamophobic bloggers. You guys haven't actually named any expert at all who agrees with your views.

Not one.

Cheers,
Shafique

Dillon · Dec 16, 2011

Then can you tell me;

1, Why the majority of perpetrators of Honour Crimes in the UK are in fact, muslim, When there are just as many members and more, of other religions in the UK with the same cultural values

2. The other question that people keep ignoring? You know, the one about Sharia Law decriminalising Murder?

shafique · Dec 16, 2011

Dillon, please stop trolling. I have explicitly dealt with both your questions at least twice in this thread.

The question that you have to answer is why you cannot produce ONE expert that believes in your theory that Islam is responsible for honour crimes. The only experts quoted in this thread explicitly say religion is not a cause of honour crimes - and the statistics of of honour crimes in the UK (less than 1% of the 3 million crimes against women in the UK, and of which 1 in 3 are by non-Muslims) aren't really in dispute.

What is in dispute is your theory that Islam is a cause. Is there any expert you can name that agrees with this view?

Cheers,

Shafique

Dillon · Dec 16, 2011

shafique wrote:Dillon, please stop trolling. I have explicitly dealt with both your questions at least twice in this thread.

Shafique, Please stop trolling as I have also explicitly dealt with both your responses at least twice in this thread. if you can be bothered please go and read the back posts!

shafique · Dec 16, 2011

Can you provide ONE expert that believes in your theory that Islam is a cause of honour crimes? The experts provided all say religion is not responsible.

Cheers,
Shafique

Dillon · Dec 16, 2011

More repetition, it's all been discussed before Shaf and nothing's changed! Accept it move on and live with it!

--- Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:03 am ---

herve wrote:Regardless of the country where muslums live (in the free world), they are much more likely to end up as criminals.Statistics show that the percentage of incarcerated muslums is ALWAYS higher than the percentage of muslums living in that country.In the US for instance, muslums make 1 or 2 % of the population, but 7.2% of the prison population is muslum.

In England and Wales, 3% of the population are Muslim and so are 12% of the Prison’s, this figure is also from 2008 and if trends continued, 15% are estimated currently.

In Belgium, 2% of the population are Muslim and so are 16% of the Prison’s.

In the Netherlands, 5.5% of the population are Muslim and so are 20% of adults and 26% of Juveniles incarcerated.

In France, where there are no official figures, it is estimated that from a 7.6% Muslim population, between 50% and 70% of the Prison population are Muslim.

I see there have been more Denial excuses of poverty and conversion, poverty affects all and is not discriminatory, conversion is conversion, if an individual converts to Islam is he a lesser Muslim than one born into Islam? after all the statistics are about the current prison population.

There may have been a marginally less percentage of a Muslim population in Europe’s prisons at the onset of incarceration but let’s face it? There’s plenty of room for error and manipulation isn’t there?

shafique · Dec 16, 2011

Sorry, did you delete the name/reference of your expert before you cut and pasted the above?

I asked for ONE expert who agreed with your theory. The only experts listed in this thread all say that religion has nothing to do with honour killings.

If you can't find one expert, just say so and stop trolling.

Cheers,

Shafique

Dillon · Dec 16, 2011

Then perhaps you can ask your Expert the following questions;

1, Why the majority of perpetrators of Honour Crimes in the UK are in fact, muslim, When there are just as many members and more, of other religions in the UK with the same cultural values

2. The other question that people keep ignoring? You know, the one about Sharia Law decriminalising Murder?

If you don't have anything more to add to the thread, please stop trolling.

shafique · Dec 16, 2011

A simple 'No, I cannot find any expert who agrees with my belief that Islam is responsible for honour killings' would have sufficed.

The experts quoted are experts because they have looked at the statistics and evidence and know what they are talking about. Your unknown sources for your belief seem more interested in innuendo than facts.

But hey, if you ever do find ONE expert, let us know. Until then, repeating your cuts and pastes is just trolling.

Cheers,

Shafique

Dillon · Dec 16, 2011

Seek and ye shall find! If I can do it, anyone can, all you need is a desire for the truth and to be able to accept it when it's staring you blatantly in the face.

shafique · Dec 16, 2011

What's staring me in the face are cuts and pastes and a theory which only Islamophobic bloggers seem to believe. No experts. At all. Not one.

But as I'm generous - please inform me if you ever do find one expert. In the meantime, I'm impressed that your beliefs are so strong - perhaps you could try convincing one of the named experts/organisations listed in this thread. They are tackling a serious problem and I'm sure they could use some light relief and will enjoy a laugh from your theories.

Cheers,

Shafique

Dillon · Dec 16, 2011

Don't count on it!

shafique · Dec 16, 2011

Well, copy us in on any response you get from the experts and let's see whether they take you seriously or laugh at you.

Cheers,

Shafique

Dillon · Dec 16, 2011

Don't hold your breath and I expect absolutely nothing else from you and your experts!

shafique · Dec 16, 2011

I'm flattered that you think I have experts. But I guess you mean the experts that myself and others have cited and referred to. Easy mistake to make.

Cheers,

shafique

Dillon · Dec 16, 2011

Ooh they're there alright, amongst the spiders webs and other daydreams!

Flying Dutchman · Dec 16, 2011

Lets see most honour killings are committed by Muslims, also in Europe. Muslim boys are very active in the sex trade at least in Holland the majority pimps involved in sex trade are Muslims. And still we have to believe everything is honkeydorey.

event horizon · Dec 16, 2011

shafique wrote:Dillon, please stop trolling. I have explicitly dealt with both your questions at least twice in this thread.

Besides yourself, out of the numerous members who have called someone a troll in recent days, the target has exclusively been you.

Would you agree that that is correct?

That you're the only one branded a troll by other members of the forum?

The question that you have to answer is why you cannot produce ONE expert that believes in your theory that Islam is responsible for honour crimes.

We've been over this.

The mullahs in Iran qualify as experts and they condone honor crimes based on Islam.

DFT · Dec 16, 2011

Just to be fair we should also discuss what Bible says:

For anyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother; his blood is upon him.

Leviticus 20-9

Anyone who strikes father or mother must be put to death.

http://bible.cc/exodus/21-15.htm

About honor:

'Cursed is anyone who dishonors father or mother.' And all the people will reply, 'Amen.'

http://bible.cc/deuteronomy/27-16.htm

If you insult your father or mother, your light will be snuffed out in total darkness.

http://bible.cc/proverbs/20-20.htm

shafique · Dec 16, 2011

eh - kudos to you, at least your trying to produce an expert that believes in your theory. Shame that you are still relying on the interpretations of Islamophobic bloggers and haven't actually produced ONE expert that does agree with you - only your wishful thinking.

But well done for trying.

Now, try and get ONE quote from any expert that agrees with you and contradicts the experts who say religion has no link to honour crimes. Simple.

Cheers,

Shafique

event horizon · Dec 16, 2011

What part of Iranian law - based on Islam - legalizing and condoning honor violence didn't you understand?

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