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I don't refer to youtube for my information, I prefer more reliable sources.

professorgreen wrote:I don't refer to youtube for my information, I prefer more reliable sources.

Might I suggest Professor, that you read the comments and the questions posed to Shafique by Event Horizon and the other “Loons and Islamophobes” Shafique so derogatorily and readily attempts to label and discredit all his critics with, and which still remain unanswered, before you finally decide on which side of the fence you may wish to sit! None of which are available on YouTube!

professorgreen wrote:I didn't watch the video. I was merely correcting Nucleaus' incorrect interpretation of 'as yet'.

lol, the verse says to wait 3 months who have not mensurated yet. Short wait period makes it obvious it is talking about mensuration cycle. Here is the summary of the verses:
1. If divorce is before having sex then no wait period.
2. If there is no mensuration then wait for 3 months to make sure there no pregnancy. Verse even later mentions pregnancy. In case there is pregnancy then father is responsible for taking care of the expenses of the women till child birth, and maybe after that depending on the situation.

Nucleus wrote:

event horizon wrote:That you can't actually argue against my position says it all.

You don't really have a position. " and those who have not menstruated as yet." doesn't mean prepubescent. Mensuration happens in cycles and one sign of pregnancy is mensuration cycle stops, hence, the verse says for those who have not menstruated to wait.

This is what you said which was incorrect. 'As yet' means it hasn't yet happened, not that it has, but stopped.

English is my first language.

-- Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:42 am --

Nucleus wrote:lol, the verse says to wait 3 months who have not mensurated yet. Short wait period makes it obvious it is talking about mensuration cycle. Here is the summary of the verses:
1. If divorce is before having love then no wait period.
2. If there is no mensuration then wait for 3 months to make sure there no pregnancy. Verse even later mentions pregnancy. In case there is pregnancy then father is responsible for taking care of the expenses of the women till child birth, and maybe after that depending on the situation.

I don't think there is anything obvious in the Quran. You all seem to interprut it, the way it suits you at the time.

English is not my first language, but "as yet" looks like in the context to the mensuration in the menstrual cycle. In any case, it doesn't make sense to take it as prepubescent, because waiting period is to clear any doubts about pregnancy. Arabic doesn't have "as yet," in Arabic it reads "and the ones who do not menstruate"

Here is Mohammad Asad's translation which is more clear:

Now as for such of your women as are beyond, the age of monthly courses, as well as for such as do not have any courses, their waiting-period - if you have any doubt [about it] - shall be three [calendar] months; and as for those who are with child, the end of their waiting-term shall come when they deliver their burden...

professorgreen wrote:I don't refer to youtube for my information, I prefer more reliable sources.

Well, I'd then imagine you wouldn't take a loon quote at face value and embarrass yourself the way that you have.

You focussed on the word 'yet' and had you done a quick look up to see whether this word appears in the Quran you would have found that it doesn't. It is dangerous to rely on a loon giving a reference or quote.

Some English translations insert the word 'yet' but do so in brackets to show that it doesn't appear in the original Arabic.

Had you watched the video and taken note of the references and evidence, you'd have avoided this school-boy error.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Here's the video, with all the evidence in it.... Again!

Cheers,
Shafique

So, for how long are you going to push this video throught everybody's throat and repeat it again and again? Its really sick how you want to push your TRUTH through everybody's throat and consider other opinions bacteria!

This video is irrelevant anyways. from an unknown speaker with no references

Denial of loons is never pleasant to watch.

What is laughable is that the eh's sole argument is a misinterpretation of one verse of the Quran which talks about divorce. The video addresses this verse and gives clear evidence from the Quran, Hadith and even science to make clear what Islam actually teaches, rather than what loons fantasise it teaches.

Of course, instead of addressing the evidence we get the usual 'sour grapes' denials.

And in any case, given nucleus hadn't watched the video and thanked me for posting it again - why are you getting your knickers in a twist FD. Stop thinking that everything revolves around you. Your stalking of me is distinctly creepy.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Well, I'd then imagine you wouldn't take a loon quote at face value and embarrass yourself the way that you have.

You focussed on the word 'yet' and had you done a quick look up to see whether this word appears in the Quran you would have found that it doesn't. It is dangerous to rely on a loon giving a reference or quote.

Some English translations insert the word 'yet' but do so in brackets to show that it doesn't appear in the original Arabic.

Had you watched the video and taken note of the references and evidence, you'd have avoided this school-boy error.

Cheers,
Shafique

I have no idea why you would think I'm embarrassing myself. Surely it's more embarrassing to be a one trick pony?

I was correcting the incorrect interprutation of the phrase 'as yet' and that is all.

I not an avid reader of fiction so wouldn't know whether the phrase appeared in the Quran or not and I don't use youtube for referencing. I strictly limit my use of youtube for pleasure. I particularly like the following. It's slightly more interesting than your clip, I feel.

tp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OBlgSz8sSM

The embarrassing part is that the word 'yet' does not appear in the verse - and reputable translations show this clearly.

I certainly would have been embarrassed if I discovered this after typing out a long mail explaining the meaning of the word 'yet'. But that's just me.

I understand why you want to change the subject, but I'm at a loss why you think stating what Islam actually teaches on the subject is a 'one trick pony'?

Cheers,
Shafique

Shafique, do you know who is the lecturer on this video?

gertrude, the video was posted for the Quranic, Hadith and scientific evidence on the subject.

I don't personally know the guy who put the video together, but his compilation of the evidence is excellent and has been presented to counter the one misinterpretation of a verse about divorce.

Why not tackle the evidence?

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Stop thinking that everything revolves around you. Your stalking of me is distinctly creepy.

You really are that stunted, that you can only parrot others.

Please stop stalking me - try sticking to the thread topic.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:gertrude, the video was posted for the Quranic, Hadith and scientific evidence on the subject.

I don't personally know the guy who put the video together, but his compilation of the evidence is excellent and has been presented to counter the one misinterpretation of a verse about divorce.

Why not tackle the evidence?

Cheers,
Shafique

Ok, so if you don't know him, what's his name? so I can look him up

As yet = 'those who did not menstruate'

The Qur'an says in Arabic:

واللائي لم يحضن" فعدتهن ثلاثة أشهر

"and those who never had menses" (because they are underage)

Quran 65:4
Tafsir from al-Islam.com

Wa Al-Lā'ī Lam Yaĥiđna

wa ( وَ ) = and

Al-Lā'ī ( وَاللَّائِي ) = for those who

Lam ( لَمْ ) = did not (negation in past tense) [2]

Yaĥiđna ( يَحِضْنَ ) = menstruate.

Yaĥiđna comes from the verbal root H-Y-D ( حيض ) which means "to menstruate".

The addition of prefix "Ya" and suffix "na" to the root "HYD" shows that the word is used in used in third person, feminine gender, plural, imperfective aspect.[3]

The imperfective aspect, by itself lacks any tense feature. [2] The tensed negatives like lam ( لَمْ ) (negation in past tense), lan ( لن ) (negation in future tense), laa ( لَ ) (negation in present tense) combined with imperfectives decide the tense in this case.

Thus lam Yadrus = He did not study.

In the verse 65:4, Lam Yaĥiđna = 'those who did not menstruate'.

Further the imperfective verb in the context of lam ( لَمْ ) (past tensed negatives) is in the Jussive mood. [2]

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Pedophilia_in ... _in_Arabic

Very disturbing article released on Nov 17, exposing how 8,000 little girls in the UK every year, are forced to marry Pakistani Muslim men.
Fortunately, more people are speaking up now.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... -will.html

event horizon wrote:The Qur'an says in Arabic:

واللائي لم يحضن" فعدتهن ثلاثة أشهر

"and those who never had menses" (because they are underage)

Quran 65:4
Tafsir from al-Islam.com

That's in brackets, the Arabic doesn't say under age.

event horizon wrote:

Wa Al-Lā'ī Lam Yaĥiđna

wa ( وَ ) = and

Al-Lā'ī ( وَاللَّائِي ) = for those who

Lam ( لَمْ ) = did not (negation in past tense) [2]

Yaĥiđna ( يَحِضْنَ ) = menstruate.

Yaĥiđna comes from the verbal root H-Y-D ( حيض ) which means "to menstruate".

The addition of prefix "Ya" and suffix "na" to the root "HYD" shows that the word is used in used in third person, feminine gender, plural, imperfective aspect.[3]

The imperfective aspect, by itself lacks any tense feature. [2] The tensed negatives like lam ( لَمْ ) (negation in past tense), lan ( لن ) (negation in future tense), laa ( لَ ) (negation in present tense) combined with imperfectives decide the tense in this case.

Thus lam Yadrus = He did not study.

In the verse 65:4, Lam Yaĥiđna = 'those who did not menstruate'.

Further the imperfective verb in the context of lam ( لَمْ ) (past tensed negatives) is in the Jussive mood. [2]

That is correct, and it doesn't show it means prepubescent; actually, it does the opposite what you are trying to prove here. I highlighted pertinent parts in red.

Arabic word, "Lam" is the important word here. It is strong negative, in past tense, which is to emphasis something didn't, but normally it is expected to happen. It doesn't even mean in the past it didn't happen at all, it can also mean it didn't happen in a certain expected period of time, which is present in your example too "[h]e did not study." Here is another example with a reference:

لَمْ يَأْكُلِ الْوَلَدُ
Translation: the boy didn't eat/hasn't eaten

Source: http://arabic.tripod.com/Negation4.htm

All in all, meaning is not that specific or narrow as some people make it to be whether muslims or non-muslims, it just says for those who did not (or do not) had mensuration, they should wait for 3 months to rule out any doubts. It can, technically, include young girls who did not experience mensuration, for whatever reason, but are old enough to get pregnant based on the complete verse.

Here are some people, who would twist this and argue for the sake of argument, but I explained it for those who want to know what is actually written in verse.

Nucleus wrote:Here are some people, who would twist this and argue for the sake of argument, but I explained it for those who want to know what is actually written in verse.

Do have a reference to a tafsir that support your explanation clearly?

-- Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:38 pm --

shafique wrote: Your stalking of me is distinctly creepy.

Beter not focus on me, but on your co-religious bro's that commit pedophilia, wife beating and forced marriages in the name of Islam.

What is the point of tafsir? I'm aware of more than 50 tafsirs some say this and other say that. What is actually written in Quran is clear. Prove what I said is wrong.

For further reference please refer to (for sincere people): http://www.al-mawrid.org/pages/question ... 08&cid=177

eh is perfectly entitled to quote the multiple loon websites that try and misinterpret this one verse of the Quran that talks about divorce.

Note how he avoids the other clear verses of the Quran, Hadith and indeed the scientific evidence presented to counter his loon belief. gertrude - is there some confusion over the Quranic, Hadith and scientific references presented... or are you only interested in who put the video together which contains the references? Why not address the references given?

Islam does not condone s.ex outside marriage, forced marriages or paedophillia - despite the deliberate misinterpretation of a verse about divorce (which does not contain the word 'yet').

Cheers,
Shafique

eh is perfectly entitled to quote the multiple loon websites that try and misinterpret this one verse of the Quran that talks about divorce.

I've quoted a mainstream interpretation of the Koran. Truth telling has never been your strong suit.

Note how he avoids the other clear verses of the Quran

None have been provided after numerous requests.

Did you forget what the last 15 pages have been about?

It can, technically, include young girls who did not experience mensuration, for whatever reason, but are old enough to get pregnant based on the complete verse.

And you know this...how?

The verse simply says wives who did not menstruate. The sheer number of commentaries I've quoted lead me to believe that the plain meaning of the verse is about young wives who have experienced puberty.

Misinterpreting ONE verse of the Quran which is about divorce is all you have. Multiple quotes from wiki-Islam etc to try and disguise the fact (and failing) just shows your desperation.

Islam does not condone s.ex outside marriage, forced marriages or paedophillia.

Multiple references from Quran, Hadith and even science counter this loon misinterpretation of this one verse - and the evidence is listed in the oft-posted video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcDSyruxyW4

Just because eh wants to believe that Islam condones paedophillia, doesn't make it so. It is just another one of his many rogue beliefs - such as believing in talking donkeys, that the earth stopped rotating and that Hindus aren't condemned to hell according to the Bible.

Cheers,
Shafique

Just because eh wants to believe that Islam condones paedophillia, doesn't make it so.

I think that should be said about yourself.

You can't engage in arguments so repeat slogans.

All the commentaries are cited and many were linked back to Muslim websites.

You change the subject when you're caught in one of your lies. You can't even show where the Koran prohibits pedophilia or what "loon" interpretation of the Koran I've used.

I'll ignore the complaints of using wiki-islam when you rely on Muslim missionary websites for your arguments.

You've been unable to dispute anything I've said let alone grasp the arguments I and others made for the past 15 pages.

In short, you're both dimwitted and a troll and your behavior is a demonstration of how you brought down the other forum you were mod of.

You're still convinced your misinterpretation of one verse of the Quran really outweighs all the other evidence presented which shows you're wrong?

Wow. You're trying to put lipstick on a pig and call it a supermodel!

Quran, Hadith and scientific references have been given to you to show that your misinterpretation of the one verse isn't valid. Why don't you deal with these? Is it because you can't??

I suspect it's just because it is yet another rogue belief.

Cheers,
Shafique

Mainstream commentaries are not rogue beliefs no matter how much you'd like to think otherwise.

I suspect you haven't addressed what verse in the Koran prohibits pedophilia because this was one of your lies you think repeating enough times will convince others is true.

A rogue belief is a rogue belief how ever you dress it up. Quoting snippets from loon websites and deliberately ignoring all the other evidence that expose your deliberate misinterpretation of a verse about divorce just highlights the lack of any credibility of your argument.

Islam clearly does not allow s.ex outside marriage, forced marriages or paedophillia. Your inability to address the references from Quran, Hadith and even science show that you have no basis to support your misinterpretation.

But hey, perhaps you will eventually come up with another verse/argument to support this latest rogue belief? I won't hold my breath though.

Cheers,
Shafique

Bad news for muzlims who are known to condone forced marriages, the Australian government today released an exposure draft of a new bill aimed at toughening Australia's laws against forced marriage, from now on, parents may be jailed over forced marriages
http://www.smh.com.au/national/parents- ... z1eeaGrBqA

Well, I guess it is a good thing that the 'muzlims' you refer to only exist in your fantasies then isn't it.

It was this thread that had you insisting the internet hoax about paedo marriages was true. That speaks volumes.

It really must hurt you a lot that Islam actually teaches that s.ex outside of marriage is not allowed, forced marriages are not allowed and certainly Islam does not allow paedophillia. Facts aren't your best friend are they?

Cheers,
Shafique