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Repeating quotes from loon websites (and we all know how this gets loons into trouble when they don't check their sources) is not going to help you.

My evidence is God's words in the Quran and the explanations ín Hadith.

So, yet again - another epic loon failure.

Let me ask you again eh - which particular Quranic quote in the video confused you? God's instructions are clear - including the point about being mature, forced marriages not being allowed and the categoric ban of s.ex outside of marriage.

Address these clear verses first and why Muslims (rather than loons) should not follow God's clear instructions.

Cheers,
Shafique

The Koran gives a waiting period for wives after a divorce if they have had sexual contact with their husbands.

Verse 33:49 says there is no waiting period if the husband and wife divorce without having s.ex during their marriage:

Koran 33:49 - O ye who believe! when you marry believing women and then divorce them before you have touched them, then you have no right to reckon the period of waiting with regard to them. So make some provision for them and send them away in a handsome manner.

However, the Koran does stipulate a waiting period for pre-pubescent wives (pre-menstruating). Not only does the Koran allow marriage with prepubescent girls, it seems to assume that their husbands will have s.e.x with their preteen brides, since they are required to follow a three month waiting period after a divorce required only for wives who have had sexual contact with their husbands based on the previous passage:

Koran 65:4 - And if you are in doubt as to the prescribed period for such of your women as have despaired of monthly courses, then know that the prescribed period for them is three months, and also for such as do not have their monthly courses yet. And as for those who are with child, their period shall be until they are delivered of their burden. And whoso fears ALLAH, HE will provide facilities for him in his affair.

Btw, the quotes are sourced and most are found online:

http://www.islamicstudies.info/tafheem.php?sura=65

http://altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo ... rProfile=0

http://altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo ... rProfile=0

http://altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo ... rProfile=0

But nice try.

If you can read Arabic, perhaps you can confirm what these links say as well:

http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMa ... nguageId=1

http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMa ... nguageId=1

http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMa ... nguageId=1

http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMa ... nguageId=1

Now, now eh - surely you're not avoiding the clear verses cited in the video which clearly show that Islam does not allow s.ex outside marriage, forced marriages or paedophillia.

Why not address the clear verses of the Quran on the subject, rather that launching these flights of fancy about what loons think Islam teaches.

It is He who has sent down to you the Book; in it are verses that are precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation (from truth), they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation (suitable to them). And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.

Quran 3.7

Address the clear verses and give up the loon interpretations.

Cheers,
Shafique

Try to stay on topic. We're discussing pedophilia in the Koran. The Koran gives a waiting period of three months for divorcing girls who have not yet menstruated when the Koran clearly says there is no waiting period for divorcing a wife if the husband has not had s.exual relations with her.

Therefore, the Koran allows not only child marriage but presumes husbands will have s.exual relations with their prepubescent wives.

Try addressing those verses and then we'll move on to what the Koran and hadith say about slave girls and marital rape.

Address the clear verses in the video which clearly show that Islam does not condone s.ex outside marriage, forced marriages and paedophillia.

Why do I need to keep repeating myself!

Cheers,
Shafique

Try reading my previous post that does address pedophilia.

One topic at a time.

Seriously, I'm addressing pedophilia in the Koran and you're asking me to address pedophilia in the Koran.

Your trolling is getting lamer by the post.

The Koran gives a waiting period for wives after a divorce if they have had sexual contact with their husbands.

Verse 33:49 says there is no waiting period if the husband and wife divorce without having s.ex during their marriage:

Koran 33:49 - O ye who believe! when you marry believing women and then divorce them before you have touched them, then you have no right to reckon the period of waiting with regard to them. So make some provision for them and send them away in a handsome manner.

However, the Koran does stipulate a waiting period for pre-pubescent wives (pre-menstruating). Not only does the Koran allow marriage with prepubescent girls, it seems to assume that their husbands will have s.e.x with their preteen brides, since they are required to follow a three month waiting period after a divorce required only for wives who have had sexual contact with their husbands based on the previous passage:

Koran 65:4 - And if you are in doubt as to the prescribed period for such of your women as have despaired of monthly courses, then know that the prescribed period for them is three months, and also for such as do not have their monthly courses yet. And as for those who are with child, their period shall be until they are delivered of their burden. And whoso fears ALLAH, HE will provide facilities for him in his affair.

and also for such as do not have their monthly courses yet.

loons believe Islam allows paedophillia. Unfortunately for them, this is not what God says in the Quran nor what Muslims believe.

If you can't reconcile your loon belief with this fact, I really can't help you. I really wonder why you guys are so desperate to believe lies and deliberate distortions. It can't be because you're interested in the truth.

I'll respond further if you have something that isn't addressed in the quotes in the Video.

Cheers,
Shafique

You mean v4:6 presented in the video which doesn't address marriageable age of girls but guardianship of male orphans?

Yeah, why don't you continue to ignore what the Koran says on divorce and the waiting period "iddah" for prepubescent girls where the Koran only requires a waiting period if the husband has had s.exual contact with his former wife.

I think we're seeing shafique scraping the bottom of the barrel again. It goes to show what I said earlier that you can't engage in actual debate. You're actually a very weak debater.

Your latest response is a series of opinions - in passive voice - where your response to the Koranic verses and commentaries cited is that your opponents are wrong and misreading the Koran or something like that.

A child could put up better arguments than you.

Yes, I do mean the clear verses in the video which show that Islam does not condone s.ex outside of marriage, forced marriages and paedophilia.

I note that your argument is effectively 'I am a loon and I refuse to believe the clear verses of the Quran which contradict my loon beliefs'.

If it is just a slanging match you want, I will have to disappoint you. If you wish to continue to believe in a loon version of Islam, I can't stop you. Others will have to compare the evidence in the video with your loon beliefs and judge which is more credible.

Cheers,
Shafique

Sorry, any response to the verses I've presented and which verse mentions the age of marriage in the Koran?

"Marriageable age" does not seem like it will help you much. Muhammad married Aisha when she was six.

I've presented verses from the Koran that show Muslims may marry and have intercourse with prepubescent girls.

The waiting period is only for wives the husband has had s.exual contact with. But v65:4 clearly says the waiting period applies to prepubescent girls also.

Therefore, the marriageable age in Islam is not only before puberty but the Koran expects husbands to have s.exual intercourse with their prepubescent wives.

Shaf, I think you know you are in denial, but you must beleive that some people on DF take you seriously when you keep repeating the same sentence over and over and over without backing, well , you are seriously mistaken. EH and Herve have posted crushing and overwhelming evidence showing that Islam DOES condone forced marriage and pedophelia and you come up with the same empty statement as if it was the conclusion of this thread.
Don't you know that forumers go back and read older posts, including the ones where you admitted peadophelia and forced marriages are ok with Islam.

If it is just a slanging match you want, I will have to disappoint you. If you wish to continue to believe in a loon version of Islam, I can't stop you. Others will have to compare the evidence in the video with your loon beliefs and judge which is more credible.

Perhaps you're right - I may be the one in denial. I'll leave it to others to judge.

gertrude - I'm curious, you never did confirm whether you still believe in the internet hoax introduced in this thread. Why is that?

Cheers,
Shafique

Shafique can't address the passages I've posted in the Koran confirming that husbands may have s.exual relations with prepubescent wives.

Waiting (Iddah) is only required if the husband has s.exual contact with his wife (v 33:49) yet we see in v 65:4 that prepubescent wives must also wait a period of three months before they can marry again:

Koran 33:49 - O ye who believe! when you marry believing women and then divorce them before you have touched them, then you have no right to reckon the period of waiting with regard to them. So make some provision for them and send them away in a handsome manner.

Koran 65:4 - And if you are in doubt as to the prescribed period for such of your women as have despaired of monthly courses, then know that the prescribed period for them is three months, and also for such as do not have their monthly courses yet. And as for those who are with child, their period shall be until they are delivered of their burden. And whoso fears ALLAH, HE will provide facilities for him in his affair.

A waiting period (iddah) is required for wives who have not yet menstruated. But waiting periods are only required for wives if they have s.exual contact with their husbands.

Therefore, the Koran not only legislates prepubescent marriage but also assumes husbands will have s.ex with their prepubescent wives.

Germany hopes to make forced marriage a crime. moslems would vote against it if they could of course.
Let's hope Germany passes that bill.
"Germany's government on Wednesday proposed criminalizing forced marriage, a tradition that some Muslim immigrant families impose on their children"
More than a tradition, it is in the quran.
http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe ... e_a_crime/

^ As stated on page 1 of this thread, some Muslim families do indeed force their children to marry - as do Hindu, Sikhs etc.

The fact that some Muslims do things against Islam is nothing new. What is funny is loons who insist that Islam is to blame.

Cheers,
Shafique

Good for Germany. Sometimes all it takes is one to start something big. I'm sure other western countries are going to fall in line with similar laws.

Britain beat Germany to it though.. don't forget . Cameron announced they were going to criminalise forced marriages.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:^ As stated on page 1 of this thread, some Muslim families do indeed force their children to marry - as do Hindu, Sikhs etc.

The fact that some Muslims do things against Islam is nothing new. What is funny is loons who insist that Islam is to blame.

So Muslims do things against Islam, but Islam isn't to blame. Can you explain what is to blame????

Cheers,
Shafique

-- Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:14 pm --

shafique wrote:Britain beat Germany to it though.. don't forget . Cameron announced they were going to criminalise forced marriages.

Cheers,
Shafique

I wasn't aware of that. Was that recent? If not, why is it still going on?

Sure. The same things that lead Hindus, Sikhs and others to commit the same actions.

Cheers,
Shafique

-- Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:17 pm --

You'll recall this post from earlier on in the thread... same logic applies:

shafique wrote::D

46% of ''child marriages'' are from non-Muslims -so you have clearly lost, as it clearly shows it can't be Islam's fault in 46% of the case.

Now, it is for you to show that the reasons for the child marriages in these 46% of cases don't apply to the 54% of Muslim cases. Think about it.
...

shafique wrote::
46% of ''child marriages'' are from non-Muslims -so you have clearly lost, as it clearly shows it can't be Islam's fault in 46% of the case.

Now, it is for you to show that the reasons for the child marriages in these 46% of cases don't apply to the 54% of Muslim cases. Think about it.
...

The point is 54% of forced marriages are from moslems, IT IS THE MAJORITY, so why would you want to address first, the forced marriages from a multitude of different minorities (tribes) that nobody don't even know about.
BTW, that would make islam a heck of a big tribe right?

46% of forced marriages are not from Muslims and can't be blamed on Islam. How many of the 54% of Muslims have the same (non-Islamic) reasons for forced marriages?

Why can't you address this question? Is it complicated - or is it your flawed assumption that every Muslim criminal is committing a crime because of their religion?

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:46% of forced marriages are not from Muslims and can't be blamed on Islam. How many of the 54% of Muslims have the same (non-Islamic) reasons for forced marriages?

Why can't you address this question? Is it complicated - or is it your flawed assumption that every Muslim criminal is committing a crime because of their religion?

Cheers,
Shafique

No it is very simple, we have been saying all along but you were not listening that moslems go for forced marriages and pedophilia BECAUSE is sponsored by islam. your prophet muhammad, who was a pedophile and child rapist, serves as a model to moslims.

So were the 46% of non-Muslims also influenced by loon theories about Islam? Or did they have non-Islamic reasons for forced marriages?

I admire your loon faith - you desperately believe that Muslim criminals commit crimes because of loon versions of Islam.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Britain beat Germany to it though.. don't forget . Cameron announced they were going to criminalise forced marriages.

Cheers,
Shafique

Shaf...Would you support a law that criminalize forced marriage?

Yes - of course, it is against Islam after all. Try and keep up.

Why do you keep asking questions that have already been answered - have you forgotten that I said it would be a good idea when you first posted the news of Cameron's proposal??? Really!!

dubai-politics-talk/forced-mariage-stoped-australian-court-t47603-30.html#p390710
(pg 3 of this very thread)


Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote: I admire your loon faith - you desperately believe that Muslim criminals commit crimes because of loon versions of Islam.

Cheers,
Shafique

Thank you for that.
Of course not, moslems commit crimes because of the authentic version of islam, it's called the quran. they don't need other versions
Beside when you write "moslem criminal" it's a repeat.

You are welcome.

Thanks for sharing your belief herve. Very interesting.

Cheers,
Shafique

I guess shafique has ran away from what his own Koran says:

event horizon wrote:Shafique can't address the passages I've posted in the Koran confirming that husbands may have s.exual relations with prepubescent wives.

Waiting (Iddah) is only required if the husband has s.exual contact with his wife (v 33:49) yet we see in v 65:4 that prepubescent wives must also wait a period of three months before they can marry again:

Koran 33:49 - O ye who believe! when you marry believing women and then divorce them before you have touched them, then you have no right to reckon the period of waiting with regard to them. So make some provision for them and send them away in a handsome manner.

Koran 65:4 - And if you are in doubt as to the prescribed period for such of your women as have despaired of monthly courses, then know that the prescribed period for them is three months, and also for such as do not have their monthly courses yet. And as for those who are with child, their period shall be until they are delivered of their burden. And whoso fears ALLAH, HE will provide facilities for him in his affair.

A waiting period (iddah) is required for wives who have not yet menstruated. But waiting periods are only required for wives if they have s.exual contact with their husbands.

Therefore, the Koran not only legislates prepubescent marriage but also assumes husbands will have s.ex with their prepubescent wives.

I've shown that the Koran allows for pedophilia - prepubescent wives are required to wait a period of three months when the Koran only requires waiting after a divorce if s.exual intercourse has taken place.

You've shown that loons believe in a fantasy version of Islam that is based on spin and not on reality.

I'll stick to the clear verses of the Quran and the fact that Muslims, not loons, are clear that Islam does not condone forced marriages, s.ex outside of marriage or paedophillia.

We'll continue to laugh at the loons preaching their version of Islam.

Cheers,
Shafique

I like how you can't address the verses in the Koran I've provided or counter anything with actual verses showing that pedophilia is not allowed in the Koran.

The verses are clear - a waiting period is prescribed only for divorced wives if they have s.exual relations with their husbands and v65:4 talks about divorced prepubescent wives being required to wait three months before marrying again.