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Stop assuming wrong, I am not confused, ...rephrase

shafique wrote:I asked what specific Quranic, Hadith or scientific references confused you from the video. Your only comments seem to be that the narrator is a Muslim.

Anyway - it is clear what Islam teaches and how loons have to rely on Memri specials.

I've presented a video that explains that Islam does not condone forced marriages or paedophillia, and that the Prophet, pbuh, was not a paedophile. Loons have presented misleading and erroneous information - eg caps confusing a critique of Khomeni with condoning paedophillia (when the video is really about condemning Khomeni's alleged paedophillia).

Cheers,
Shafique

The video you presented has no value because :
1 it is anonymous
2 it is biased
3 it is made by a moslem who says "pbuh" every time after muhammad. A moslem (those who constantly say pbuh, peace be upon him after muhammad, are biased because a moslem is not allowed to criticize the quran
4 it has errors

What errors are in the video?

(Points one to three are just your way of saying the video presents facts and not loon fantasies)

Cheers,
Shafique

Herve's right about Muslim men and se.x outside of marriage. Most of them are at it.

That reminds me, where's DDS lately?

^You were certain herve was right about DearJohn too.. how did that pan out?

If you watched the video, you'd see that the point being made was not about men not following Islamic teachings, but rather the fact that Islam does not allow forced marriages or s.ex outside of marriage.

Facts, not hype.

Cheers,
Shafique

Facts according to Shafique's world.

How come that everybody who agrees with you is right and everybody who doesn't is a loon?

You must be an absolute pleasure to be around.

Facts as in 'not made up by a loon website' and verifiable.

But hey, if you want to continue to believe herve and caps when they quote Memri specials - go ahead.

Cheers,
Shafique

Thanks, I will!

shafique wrote:Hey herve - I laughed at the bit about you saying I haven't read the Quran. I'm still waiting for you to confirm why you couldn't quote the Quran correctly in the religion forum.

I'm wondering why you're so obsessed with this misinformation?

You probably also still think that I am DearJohn, don't you?

God is quite clear what Islam allows- s.ex outside of marriage is forbidden, as is forced marriages. Why are loons so insistent they know Islam better than Muslims?

Cheers,
Shafique

Shaf, that was an interesting video. I'll have to read more about the onset of se.xual and mental maturity through the ages. The author of the video makes some compelling arguments and provides good evidence to support them.

I think the world's Gods need to come back and commission a re-write of their holy books in order to clarify and make things relevant in this day in age. It would be so much simpler than wading through biological and anthropological data and needing so much environmental and cultural knowledge to interpret the holy books "correctly". In fact, I wonder if anything in holy books can be interpreted "correctly" at all.

Kanelli - I found the information about s.exual maturity through the ages interesting too.

However, note that the Quran does not contain actual ages and therefore doesn't need revision - it contains principles which still apply today.

The simple rules regarding s.ex are unambiguous - first that it is only allowed in marriage, second that forced marriages are not allowed and also the concept of 'being of marriageable age'. I liked the way the video made these points.

The detail in the video about s.exual maturity etc was specifically to tackle the point on whether the Prophet, pbuh, was a paedophile.

Cheers,
Shafique

Hey, don't call the guy who married a six year old a pedophile.

Good grief.

Don't let facts get in the way of the exposure of loons getting caught with their pants down (again). eh you can explain to caps who Khomeni is and why Saudis criticising Khomeni does not equal proof that Islam condones paedophillia. You may have to use short words though.

herve is beyond hope - he wants to believe the hype.

Cheers,
Shafique

Compelling evidence that muslims condone $ex with children and forced marriage.

eh, herve, BM, capsicum - did you even watch the video that Shaf posted? What are your comments on the research paper shown that discusses se.xual maturity through the ages? Any particular criticisms? How about the evidence from Islamic law and Common Law and Greco-Roman Law that all stated similar ages of consent/age of maturity for marriage and other matters across different populations thousands of years ago?

herve, you claim that you have read the Quran and Shaf hasn't. If you are so well-versed in the Quran, why can't you provide evidence from the Quran or Hadith to support your claims?

Kanelli, this thread is about muslims, today, not 1400 years ago, who force young girls into marriage and having $ex with baby girls, you read about the thighing $exual practice, it is not made up. An Australian court has barred a teenage girl from going to Lebannon to marry an old fart.
The same happens in the UK, where young girls are forced to be married to muslims.
Now, what do you think about the fact that this never happens in a muslim country, you never hear of a girl going to court to seek protection from being forced to marry a muslim. Why dont you hear about it?
Because there is nothing is sharia law that makes it illegal for a man to have $ex with a child or to marry a baby girl.
It is in Western law, it is a crime. Western laws provide harsh punishment for these sexual offenders.
Where is it in sharia law? show me one article of the sharia law that provides a specific punishment for pedophiles, show me one.
The fact that sharia law does not provide punishment for these crimes is evidence, among many others in the quran, that islam condones forced marriage and Sex with children.
If you dont punish it, you support it. al shafique repeats what is on islamic website, i dont know if you saw it, but EH exposed him already, he caught him duplicating quotes for himself from websites.
I really beleive he has not read the quran, or he does not understand it, and worst, he tries to deceit people about it. kanelli my best advocate, is the quran, in the US when people read the quran they walk away from islam, reading the quran is the best way to understand how appalling it is. if you have not read it, read it.
The double standards, the double language, the morbidity, death, hell, all over, it is di$gusting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaP_sGRs ... re=related

However, the fact still remains - Islam does not condone forced marriages or s.ex outside of marriage.

The rest is loon hype. The video clearly exposes the loon tactics of taking some isolated and condemned practices by some people, and then trying to generalise this to all Muslims or to Islam.

Take Caps major error - his video is of a critique of Khomeni, criticising him for alleged paedophillia - and yet the loons are presenting it as proof Islam condones paedophillia.

Herve's rant is in essence saying 'some Muslims break the rules, therefore Islam is corrupt' - that's the bottom line with loons. When presented with God actually says and what Islam actually teaches, suddenly loons become sheikhs and start preaching about Islam. Except it is the loon version.

Sad really.

Cheers,
Shafique

al shafique....does sharia law provide punishment for pedophiles and for those who force young girls into marriage. please elaborate.

Yes.

The video has references - God clearly states that s.ex outside marriage is forbidden and marriage should only be made/consummated after the parties are of appropriate maturity.

God also clearly states that consent for marriage is required. Therefore forced marriages are not allowed. Again references in video.

Any s.ex outside these parameters are subject to the punishment God has ordained in the Quran.

Cheers,
Shafique

do you think anyone is going to take for granted your "yes"
show us some links and quotes, we know you are confused and a liar, so bring us some proof and specific articles from sharia law which provides punishment for peadophiliacs

How can a 6 years old not consent , are you insane?

See video for full references (and see edit above).

If still confused, let me know which specific reference to Quran, Hadith etc you are having problems understanding.

It is not difficult. God's instructions are quite clear.

Cheers,
Shafique

-- Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:37 am --

Here's the video again, for handy reference:

so if someone rapes your little daughter, you will leave it to god? no punishment for the perpetrator? i knew you were a coward, you just confirmed it
You are incapable to show us an article of sharia law which provides punishment for peadophiliac, therefore muslims condone peadophelia. in a case of peadophelia, nobody gives a $hit of god, how about punishment on earth?
If a woman cheats on her husband, sharia , not god, provides punishment, where is the punishment for peadophelia? are you failing to show us?


..30 min later, still nothing from al shafique, what happened ?, you can't find any article of sharia that provides punishment in case of peadophelia?

No, paedophiles are harshly sentenced.

In Saudi a paedophile was sentenced to crucifixion and beheading:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... esert.html

Is Google not working where you are, or are you just allergic to facts?

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:No, paedophiles are harshly sentenced.

In Saudi a paedophile was sentenced to crucifixion and beheading:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... esert.html

Is Google not working where you are, or are you just allergic to facts?

Cheers,
Shafique

You are wrong again, and you misquote an article ....again.....read the article, no where the word peadophelia is mentionned, you put that word in your post trying to spin the debate but you fail, the sicko was beheaded for murder and rape, not peadophelia. These are three different things.
Keep looking, you are too slow al shafique, come on, you were not prepared for that one?
pedophelia, not murder, not rape, we already know about that.

...

...

...al shafique is desperate right now he is googling like crazy. he cant find anything

You are allergic to facts! 'no where is peadophellia mentioned' (sic) - lol. Herve - what is the first word in the headline?

Iran explicitly lists paedophillia as punishable by death (look it up), and Saudi beheads paedophiles who go through with their paedophillia (which is the crime described here). duh.

God is clear - s.ex outside marriage is not allowed. Forced marriages not allowed. No room for paedophillia - and full references given in video above. Why continue to deny the facts herve?

Cheers,
Shafique

God is clear - s.ex outside marriage is not allowed. Forced marriages not allowed. No room for paedophillia - and full references given in video above. Why continue to deny the facts herve?

If it's not allowed, then why is it practiced?

It is very clear, there is no legal age of marriage under Sharia and a girl can be given in marriage as young as the age of one. But marriage can only be lawfully consummated with a girl when she reaches the age of nine.

Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the Supreme Leader of Iran, the Shia Grand Ayatollah between 1979 and 1989, said in an official statement, which appears in his own book, "Tahrirolvasyleh": (have you read his book al shafique)

"A man can quench his sexual lusts with a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate. $odomizing the baby is halal (allowed by Sharia). If the man penetrates and damages the child, then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however, does not count as one of his four permanent wives, It is better for a girl to marry when her menstruation starts, and at her husband's house rather than her father's home. Any father marrying his daughter so young will have a permanent place in heaven.

Also, in June 2008, Saudi marriage official Dr. Ahmad Al Mubi said in an interview aired on LBC TV: There is no minimal age for entering marriage the Prophet Mohammed is the model we follow.
Mohammed supposedly married his wife Aisha when she was six years old and consummated their marriage when she was nine.

Herve, please explain how anything Khomeini said is relevant to what the Quran and Hadith say? As we have seen in many religions, people come up with crazy religious justifications for their deviant actions. Islam is no different than Christianity, Judaism or any other religion in that respect.

The video that Shaf posted clearly states that in this day in age it is not appropriate for children to marry or consummate a marriage as children, because they are not deemed se.xually mature in this day in age at the same time as they were in the past following the criteria and definitions in the Quran, Hadith, and Islamic law.

Shaf also clearly states that s.ex outside of marriage is not allowed and we all know how much that's adhered to, don't we?

^No one disputes that there are Muslims who don't follow what Islam says they should do, just as there are Jews, Christians etc who don't follow all the 10 commandments and other requirements of their religion.

Forced marriages aren't that common - and where they do occur, they do so AGAINST the teachings of Islam, and not because of them. That's the whole big thing point, and has been clearly stated from the first posts on this thread.

What Khomeni is alleged to have said (I'd like to hear what Iranian Shia have to say about these alleged quotes), is only relevant to Shia muslims who believe in his leadership. The majority of Muslims are not Shia and would not follow his rulings. Indeed, remember that the video posted was a critique by Saudis AGAINST Khomeni. (And I'm not shia, and haven't verified the quotes or read them in context - I don't read persian for a start)

The video I linked to above shows clearly what Islam does teach on the subject. Quran and Hadith will trump anything Khomeni is alleged to have said.

Cheers,
Shafique