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My Mr Emirati is the most racist person I know. We were in the Sheraton one time, having a quiet meal, when I commented on the waitress' looks. What an attractive woman, says BM. You could have struck me down. WHAT? says Mr Emirati? She's black!

She wasn't actually black black, more like brownish. In fact she had a look of David Bowie's wife, who I think is a very attractive woman.

He was doing some sort of business deal on the phone and my mind wandered a bit until he mentioned a Bangladeshi woman.
'A Bangladeshi woman?' says BM.
'Oh I was just joking with someone. Bring me a Bangladeshi woman as payment for a deal' He LOL'd. 'As if' said Mr Emirati.

It occured to me that he doesn't know the background of anyone he discriminates against. He doesn't know and doesn't appear to care where an Asian is born nor what passport they hold. An Asian is an Asian to him..

SoI am just curious, do all locals treat them differently or do they see all Pakistanis as labourers ...

Bethsmum wrote:My Mr Emirati is the most racist person I know.

Dear DD I have to say that from my own experiences what BM says is true, the Emirati's that I have met have been very racist. Maybe you haven't experienced this as they would tend to do it behind your back whilst smiling nicely to your face, but I can assure you I have heard it on several occasions. Mind you they are not the only racist group there I feel that this cosmopolitan city brings out the worst in all nationalities and everybody tends to discriminate against somebody. The Asian Brits are as likely to discriminate as to being discriminated against.

You have obviously missed the tremendous irony of this thread patience ! But just to put it into prespective, Its like the Aryan brotherhood asking if the KKK are racist.

No totally missed any irony. Was just replying to the thread. Why don't you tell me what you think and we can avoid a big barney?

Hope this reads ok I genuinely am interested in your opinion.

Keep your turban on munchkin.

The Emiratis are known for their racism. Why I was just having a deek at our recently departed friends from DF, on his FB one day and noticed his interests were 'UAE locals only'. That did make me LOL, especially when he said I was racist

I think, if I might even be permitted to think (should I check first?) that this is a good question.

First out of the blocks I would say the answer is Yes. However on reflection there is an even deeper question that needs to be addressed first;

Do British born Asians play their heritage off against their passport when in Dubai, and in light of the response to the first part of my question, is discrimination (or pigeon holing) by Emiratis a natural result?

Or to put it even more clearly for the crayon brigade ... Do British Asians become (Pakistani, Indian, Bangladeshi) [delete where appropriate] when it suits them, in life, in business, at play; particularly in Dubai? (see the Tebbit Rule)

The answer to that question is also definitely, Yes
(But then it’s quite natural to want the best of both worlds)

Is the resultant Emirati response valid; as life plays out in that part of the world, also, Yes

The funny part in all this conundrum is when the two worlds get mixed up ... British Asians at the mercy of the Kerala gangs, British born Asian lawyers, head wobbling and saying “Acha” to secure some business or other, to be honest I am not surprised that the simple run of the mill local lumps them all into one labelled box – and wait until the dust settles.

patience wrote:No totally missed any irony. Was just replying to the thread. Why don't you tell me what you think and we can avoid a big barney?

Hope this reads ok I genuinely am interested in your opinion.

Ofcourse and trust me after being here for so long, I doubt there isn't anything I haven't seen here. The Emaratis are just as prone to stereotyping as anyone else. For example for some, any brown skinned person is a paki, regardless of his background or nationality, likewise any arab is a rag head.

More than racist, the problem here is more of a superiority complex and inflated egos than anything else and somewhat a lttle bit of a language barrier. Once you speak the language its very easy to break the ice, thats one of the majority qualms anti immigration supporters also have, if you can't speak the language then expect to be treated differently or better yet don't come at all. Once you get talking they are just like any other normal person.

Also to put into prespective I have met some very humble down to earth and decent Emaratis from very high backgrounds, the kind of people who will not mind sitting on a greasy floor to have a cup of tea and chat with you, or go out of their way to make you feel welcomed.

To paint every Emarati with a broad brush and say they are racist is to me is racist in itself. I have to honestly say I have met and talked to more racist and bigoted westerners than Emaratis and thats my personal experience. And to throw a curve ball out there I have also met more racist black South Africans than white, so what does that say ?!

As for Brit Asians, I've met quite a lot of them aswell, there are a few BBCDs ( British Born Confused Desi )in them but the majority seem perfectly normal nor have I seen any discrimantory behaviour in them.

Well there you go munchkin, see you can contribute more than a one liner when you have your sensible head on.
It's always interesting to hear someone else's opinion.

Obviously I've never invited an Emirati to sit on a greasy floor with me.

On the whole I like the Emiratis, although I was shaken recently at the amount of hatred one could post on an internet forum. But it just shows that you shouldn't judge everybody by the actions of one. Beth has some lovely friends, Emirati, Syrian, Iraqi, all very nice and polite, I have no problem at all with her mixing with locals but I have had a few warnings about them. I've even had warnings from an Emirati that others can portray themselves as Emirati when they aren't!

Generally though I have to say they do have seem to have a scale of who is acceptable.

In my experience it starts with Brits, then American/Canadian (they can't tell the difference) and then Australian/South African(white) (they can't tell the difference)

Mr Emirati was advertising for a PA and he said from the money he was offering, couldn't afford a Brit. All he could afford to employ in that office was a Filipino. Her name is Pamela. Nice name

But the question remains, do the Emiratis think of all Pakistanis as labourers....

That again is a racist remark in it self.

Yes DD agree not all Emirati's are racist nor all white, brown, black people!! I was just talking from my own experience and that has been that the one's that I have met have been extremely racist. Maybe it comes from their own insecurity of being the minority in their own country. It is easy to become racist when you feel threatened from an influx of foreigners. It is interesting that you found the black South Africans racist I must admit to not knowing any. Anyway thanks for your response it is as BM says interesting to get different people's perspectives on things, especially in a forum with such a diverse group of people.

Let's look at the flip side. Expats have a low opinion of Emiratis in general, and Emirates know this very well. Expats have and will refer to Emiratis as being lazy, ignorant, incompetent, etc. Now, if you were in your home country and had a large population of expats that referred to you as such, wouldn't you develop a resentment towards them (the nationality that is)?

I worked for an Emirati - smart as all get out and highly educated - who mandated that no Brits were to work for the company. This stemmed from the treatment she remembered that Emiratis experienced early on from the Brits and many carried it forward to this day.

Many expats don't have the opportunity to socialize with or have many Emirati friends. I have been fortunate as Mr BB has many Emirati friends and associates who hold very good positions, many of whom I have met and know well. They are all highly educated people. They hold degrees from highly respected international universities and some have Doctorates. And many of them don't forget how they or their families were treated in the early days. They have a strong negative opinion of Brits. When one talks of Emirati entitlement, no one nationality had a stronger sense of entitlement as the Brits did back in the day. (I think DDS can confirm that.)

Emiratis may be guilty of labelling certain nationalities (Indians, Pakistanis, Filipinos, Sri Lankans) because of the low level jobs they hold, laborers, housemaids, wait staff, taxi drivers, but the fact is, many expats are guilty of doing the same thing.

We seem to be talking alot about Emirati racism and it is very interesting getting different nationalities experiences. I didn't realise that they felt like that about the Brits some of the Emirati's I knew (some very high ranking) even married Brits, bet they didn't share those opinions with their wives. Anyway seems a bit typical to me that they would princess about every other nationality behind people's backs. Just talking from my own rather low opinion of Emirati's though. As I said interesting to find out what they say to whom.

It's not just about Emirati racism. Many expats are just as guilty of sharing the same racism as of many Emiratis.

I'm not speaking for the entire Emirati population, but from those Emiratis that I know and spoke to. I am also going on experiences over the past 14 years. There has been a huge shift in western attitude towards Emiratis and the display of superiority has dwindled, but for some the mentality is still there.

People tend to generalize. Have a bad experience with one person, label the entire nationality. I've learned to take one person at a time. I have had a few unpleasant experiences with different nationalities due to what I can only categorize as "cultural mentality". And I will admit, it has put me off as it is outside my mentality, and it's something I don't want to deal with. Example: there are nationalities that think it's OK to ask how much you make, how much you pay for rent, how much you spend on blah, blah, blah. They don't ask these questions amongst their own, it's generally with expats. As innocent as these questions may appear, in my culture it just isn't done within our culture or outside, and is considered extremely rude. I'm not saying it isn't done, but it doesn't change the fact that it is unacceptable.

I have met Emiratis who are married to western women - Brits and Americans, as well as Emiratis who are married to Filipino women. But these Emiratis are from a very small minority.

Do the expats actually sit and tell Emiratis to their face what they think of them? There is just as much "behind the back" talking done by expats of one nationalitiy about other nationalities.

Your question can only be answered fully by Emiratis. I don’t think there are enough of them on DF to produce a consensus. I worked for some time in Dubai, and I didn’t feel any discrimination against me; frankly, I was treated rather well. I got the impression, by interacting with many Emiratis in high positions, that they knew that they were being taken for a bit of a ride by the Whites (of whatever nationality), but were helpless to do anything about it. They needed the technology and know how being pedalled by the West to improve the life of the Emiratis. I consider that a fair exchange.
Do the Emiratis think all Pakis are laboureres? Maybe an ordinary run of the mill Emirati, with very little brains, does think so. After all, look around you in Dubai, and the most abundant Pakis that you see are the ones working as labourers. It would require a different thread to explain why this is so. Suffice it to say that the SOB’s running the show back in Pakiland have messed things up, including educating the people, in a big way over several decades. Having said that, I can never bring myself around to “looking down my nose” at a labourer. Its not a sin to be a labourer or poor, in my book. And they do a damn good job for the remuneration that they get. To each his own I say.
Does it really matter what Emiratis think of any particular Nationality in the big wide world? I don’t think so! They live in their own little world that many in the rest of the world don’t know anything about. Many people find it difficult to locate Dubai on the world map where I am currently residing! The Emirates is a small country, with an insignificant economy, and an unremarkable people, not particularly known for their brains or their hard work. At least the Paki can become a labourer and thus has some use on planet Earth. What can an Emirati do for himself once you take away the cushion that oil wealth has produced, and the uneven playing field and the frequent moving of the goal-posts, and the exploitation that some can testify to even here on DF. “Your” Emirati is a classic example of this: he employs Pamela instead of a Brit, who would be more expensive! For doing the same job??
Imagine if the honey pot were to dry up and all the expatriates (mercenaries) left, including the Bangladeshis etc. What will you be left with? Another Yemen?

Good post - for the most part Zonker.

yes agreed good post.

For me I respect all people regardless of thier nationality , actually we cant know
that you are an asian with Brit nationality. Also, locals dont socilaise with expats due
to culture differences. I will tell a you a fact , we prefer to deal with Asians rather arabs
from some specific countires. In general,not all locals are the same, I have lived in us for
more that 5 years and it was one of the best time of my life, and i went to England for 2 months when
was young and i faced a lot of discrimnation.

-- Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:14 pm --

zonker wrote:Your question can only be answered fully by Emiratis. I don’t think there are enough of them on DF to produce a consensus. I worked for some time in Dubai, and I didn’t feel any discrimination against me; frankly, I was treated rather well. I got the impression, by interacting with many Emiratis in high positions, that they knew that they were being taken for a bit of a ride by the Whites (of whatever nationality), but were helpless to do anything about it. They needed the technology and know how being pedalled by the West to improve the life of the Emiratis. I consider that a fair exchange.
Do the Emiratis think all Pakis are laboureres? Maybe an ordinary run of the mill Emirati, with very little brains, does think so. After all, look around you in Dubai, and the most abundant Pakis that you see are the ones working as labourers. It would require a different thread to explain why this is so. Suffice it to say that the SOB’s running the show back in Pakiland have messed things up, including educating the people, in a big way over several decades. Having said that, I can never bring myself around to “looking down my nose” at a labourer. Its not a sin to be a labourer or poor, in my book. And they do a damn good job for the remuneration that they get. To each his own I say.
Does it really matter what Emiratis think of any particular Nationality in the big wide world? I don’t think so! They live in their own little world that many in the rest of the world don’t know anything about. Many people find it difficult to locate Dubai on the world map where I am currently residing! The Emirates is a small country, with an insignificant economy, and an unremarkable people, not particularly known for their brains or their hard work. At least the Paki can become a labourer and thus has some use on planet Earth. What can an Emirati do for himself once you take away the cushion that oil wealth has produced, and the uneven playing field and the frequent moving of the goal-posts, and the exploitation that some can testify to even here on DF. “Your” Emirati is a classic example of this: he employs Pamela instead of a Brit, who would be more expensive! For doing the same job??
Imagine if the honey pot were to dry up and all the expatriates (mercenaries) left, including the Bangladeshis etc. What will you be left with? Another Yemen?

Well when you consider people with no or littile brain, that is racisim as we say " dogs are barking and clouds are moving"

@ Zonker. I have read your post twice Zonker and although you said you were treated well by the Emiratis I detect that you don't really like them. Am I reading that wrongly?

You are quite right when you say that labourers do a good job for the money they receive but had they stayed in Pakistan, surely they would be unemployed and not earning anything for their family? So, in a way, they should be grateful to the Emiratis, should they not? At least they are in paid employment.

I have to admit, I started this topic wondering if Emiratis discrinated against Asians born in Britain. After all they all look Asian, where ever they were born, but did then ask whether Emiratis thought of all Pakistanis as labourers. Two seperate topics in one thread.

Still it's nice to get everyone's thoughts on this topic.

For me I respect all people regardless of thier nationality , actually we cant know
that you are an asian with Brit nationality. Also, locals dont socilaise with expats due
to culture differences. I will tell a you a fact , we prefer to deal with Asians rather arabs
from some specific countires. In general,not all locals are the same, I have lived in us for
more that 5 years and it was one of the best time of my life, and i went to England for 2 months when
was young and i faced a lot of discrimnation.

That's exactly my point uaebadoo, people judge a person by how they look, if you look Asian, you are Asian.
Personally I don't see why people have to pretend they are anything they aren't.
Do you really think that locals do not socialise because of culture differences?
That's a shame you suffered discrimination when you went to England. I know Emiratis that have had very positive experiences of my country.

Windbag in all honesty you starting a thread on racism is a oxymoron to say the very least.

desertdudeshj wrote:Windbag in all honesty you starting a thread on racism is a oxymoron to say the very least.

That's a big word for you!

desertdudeshj wrote:Windbag in all honesty you starting a thread on racism is a oxymoron to say the very least.

Its actually quite an interesting thread, even you had something of interest to say for a change, a measured response from all, but if you are going to have a dig, where none is required (or your not backing up Shaf), get it right

Your stance is that it was ironic that BM should post this as a thread

An oxymoron, well go google it, inherent contradictory terms e.g. military intelligence, ground pilot, smart arab etc.


Late addition - upon re-reading thread you had correctly identified Irony at the beginning, why the follow up ?

“I may not agree with you, but I will defend to the death your right to make an a5s of yourself. ”
― Oscar Wilde

^^^
And thats the superiority complex I mentioned earlier and its not limited to Emaratis from that synde remark about smart arabs. With that I'll save myself a few letters and call anyone with that view just a moron.

Now it IS ironic, the mention of backing up shaf, when the only time we see our viking is when BM is involved ?

Anyways try to stay on topic and not derail this one thread we have somewhat of a discussion going on with one of your long winded tirades.

Hope thats no too much to ask ? Thought so.

Cheers

BM, you've got it wrong I am afraid! I dont dislike the Emiratis.
But I dont particularly look up to them because of their wealth. I do like the vision of the people that made Dubai what it is. And that was not just the Emiratis! The blood, sweat, and tears (to quote one of your leaders) of many Nationalities went into it.
As for the Paki labourers feeling grateful. Should they really? They work in horrible conditions, and get paid a pittance for it. Do you mean to say they should be grateful and accept being kicked on their backsides gratefully? Then the same argument should apply to everyone: Herve should be grateful for having been allowed to construct his toy submarines and shouldn't complain because nowhere else could he have indulged this fantasy.
You know I ask a lot of poor people in Pakiland whether they would like to go to Dubai etc as labourers and in 9 out of 10 cases I get a reply in the negative.

UAEBadoo, I didnt mean to sound racist. I meant that only the very idiotic people amongst the Emiratis could think that all Pakis are labourers. Brainless twits are every where, Pakistan has a very large share of them.

desertdudeshj wrote:^^^
And thats the superiority complex I mentioned earlier and its not limited to Emaratis from that synde remark about smart arabs. With that I'll save myself a few letters and call anyone with that view just a moron.

Now it IS ironic, the mention of backing up shaf, when the only time we see our viking is when BM is involved ?

Anyways try to stay on topic and not derail this one thread we have somewhat of a discussion going on with one of your long winded tirades.

Hope thats no too much to ask ? Thought so.

Cheers

I will say this s l o w l y for you

The only person off topic on here is you, muppet

There is nothing superior in correcting stupid mistakes like that, you were the one busy digging away having a pop at someone, and as to my (Did you mean to say SNIDE “synde”) remark about smart arabs you may have noticed the smiley next to it, that is an example (or could be read to be) of an oxymoron, moron.

And the final irony is that it is you trying to derail this thread, jeez.

So jog on back to politics, Shaf’s next show is due to start soon

You and the Meetoo's are making such a deal out of this superiority thing, and then as if to provide contrast, show your own inferiority. (That's the opposite by the way, correctly used.)

Ta ta

desertdudeshj wrote:Hope thats not too much to ask ?

It was wasn't it pumpkin Glad you got it out of your system now.

Anywhoo !

P.S : I did mean snyde and not snide

I don't think its just british born asian but just asians in general. People's attitudes and actions are affected by the place and environment they live in. Dubai looks down on the labour class generally, in terms of laws if nothing else, and new entrants (expats) that don't hold this view tend to become somewhat infected by this culture - not all but most.

On arabs, I think its unfair to judge them as a uniform group. I have met some that discriminate against non-muslims and others that prefer/respect whites above other colours. Its all down to their education, upbringing and experiences and I have not found them to be identical in their approach. Lots of arabs are married to philiphino's as well as indian/pakistani girls so certainly the one size fits all view is incorrect.

Is there discrimination against Anglo-Pakistanis and Anglo-Indians in Dubai. Yes, in some instances there are. There'a a lot of casual racism in Dubai.

Personally, I didn't face discrimination in my business or personal life - but benefited by looking like I spoke/understood Urdu in many situations (especially shopping). That illusion was shattered when I opened my mouth to speak though.

People have rightly pointed out that this stems from a racist mindset - where judgements are based on the race of the person. Dubai is an environment where historically (at least) there has been a segregation of duties and status by race. The reasons are many and different for many - but colonial influences are clear.

There's also the strong influence of Indian and Pakistani culture - and the historical status of Gulf Arabs vs Indians. Within Indian and Pakistani culture - there is a class structure and overt racism. The caste structure is a clear example of this, but it exists among Pakistanis too - skin colour, wealth, name etc can mark you out as 'high class' vs 'low class'. Everyone 'knows their place' in the traditional system. It is changing, but hasn't disappeared. (Indeed, it still exists in the UK.. but more diluted.. and that's a different topic).

Historically the Gulf Arabs traded with India and the better off were educated there. Then came the British and their way of looking at the world. Historically, the Indians would have had looked down on the status of the majority of emiratis (but so did the British, remember).

It is human nature to wish to emulate those who are in power, or are perceived to be in power. Their bad habits are part of the package. You see this very markedly around Africa and in other ex-Colonies. Some extremes are the Lusophone (Portugese speaking ex-colonies) such as Mozambique and particularly Angola. For various historical reasons, there are black Angolans who now have no native language except Portugese and have a 100% Portugese mindset/cultural outlook. Sorry, another tangent.

Gulf Arabs who have now come into money are now behaving as any nouveau rich society is and emulating the good and the bad habits they see and which their parents have seen. Some of it is concious, other bits unconscious.

I've met very gracious and open minded Emiratis who chose to not live a life of privilege and actually make meaningful contributions to their positions in the company, and I've met those who are just names on company documents.

I was told early on that a joke was 'Emirates' stood for 'English Managed, Indian Run, Arabs take excessive salaries' - and told there was truth in this joke. Was that racist? I'd say yes. Was it inaccurate - well in some instances not. But not in every case and not for ever.

But racism whilst part of human nature is something we can conciously try to avoid. But human nature being what it is, when hearing of a Blonde Russian lady or a Bangladeshi - we automatically get a picture in our minds of their probable occupation and social status. In reality, one may indeed be waiting tables and the other a multi-millionaire Nobel winning businessman... but our initial reaction may not reflect reality.

Thanks to BM for starting a thread that initially looked like just another of the vacuous baiting threads that have been cropping up regularly. This one has generated some interesting and pertinent thoughts.

DDS - even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Your point about irony is noted and was my reaction too.. but other posts have redeemed this thread, IMO.

Cheers,
Shafique

viking-warrior wrote:, head wobbling and saying “Acha” to secure some business or other,

Thats something you will see once in a blue moon. Head wobbling doesnt come with saying Accha from what I have seen. South Indians love to wobble, and they dont like to say Achha as a reply, (only using i rather as an alternative to i'm fine). You are more likely to see the wobble with "tiik haii", or my favorite "wo k, no prublemm"

-- Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:04 am --

shafique wrote: But human nature being what it is, when hearing of a Blonde Russian lady or a Bangladeshi - we automatically get a picture in our minds of their probable occupation and social status. In reality, one may indeed be waiting tables and the other a multi-millionaire Nobel winning businessman... but our initial reaction may not reflect reality.

I agree but i personally never assume when i hear of someone.

I start making assumptions once i see a person and hear him/her speak, thats when i start to stereotype though i am sometimes wrong.

As someone at the end of assumptions every now and then, it is sad how people love to stereotype...

I assume that Sharia law was the best invention for some Muslim guys (or probably the word "we" means all Mulims?) as they cannot help themselves not after seeing but even hearing about Blonde beauty. Probably many of them have very wild imagination or it's arranged marriadge to blame.