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Bethsmum wrote:Do the Israelis realise that you are their unelected spokesperson?

But I sure the're aware you and FD are, FD might even get a little something in the mail at the end of the month for all his spin-ery efforts here.

desertdudeshj wrote:

Bethsmum wrote:Do the Israelis realise that you are their unelected spokesperson?

But I sure the're aware you and FD are, FD might even get a little something in the mail at the end of the month for all his spin-ery efforts here.

FD is just FD, nobody is behind FD and FD is never hiding. DDS however...needs to get clear who he is if he feels justified in making such posts and stalking others in order to retrieve private info. All and all DDS is just a troll.

I understand BM's denial of the fact that the majority of Israelis are in favour of Shalit being exchanged for prisoners/hostages held by Israel. That is relevant to this thread.

DDS' comment about FD being a spokesman for the Israelis is a bit off topic - but FD's is way out there.

I guess that there's not much more to say about Shalit and Israel's refusal so far to exchange him.

Cheers,
Shafique

I understand BM's denial of the fact that the majority of Israelis are in favour of Shalit being exchanged for prisoners/hostages held by Israel. That is relevant to this thread.

Who says the majority of Israelis want the exchange? Some dodgy website or you as the person with the mandate to speak for the Israelis?

DDS' comment about FD being a spokesman for the Israelis is a bit off topic - but FD's is way out there.

Just a bit?

I guess that there's not much more to say about Shalit and Israel's refusal so far to exchange him.

You're rambling again. Israel refuse to be blackmailed into swopping one soldier for 1000 Palestinian murderers and terrorists. And rightly so.

-- Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:22 pm --

Yes DDS, why not come clean and tell us all of your other user names. Grow a pair and stop being a coward.

With the last prisoner swap with Hezbollah, Israel got Gold and Hezbollah human feces.

Bethsmum wrote:Who says the majority of Israelis want the exchange? Some dodgy website or you as the person with the mandate to speak for the Israelis?

The quote was from Haaretz newspaper and referenced a poll of Israelis. 63% in favour of exchange, BM in denial. Still.

Bethsmum wrote:

shafique wrote:I guess that there's not much more to say about Shalit and Israel's refusal so far to exchange him.

You're rambling again. Israel refuse to be blackmailed into swopping one soldier for 1000 Palestinian murderers and terrorists. And rightly so.

Israel refuses to release the women and children hostages and prisoners in exchange - yes. They did so in the past and will do so in the future.

63% say they should do so sooner rather than later.

Cheers,
Shafique

Well, as usual the Israeli government do not bow to blackmail from a bunch of terrorists.

I salute them and hope they keep up the good work. Once you give in to terrorists, you are showing weakness and you are finished.

God bless Israel and God bless Gilad Shalit and his family at Yom Kippur.

'As usual'? You mean you're going to ignore the past prisoner/hostage exchanges and the fact that the majority of Israelis want it to happen?

But fair enough - let's spare a thought for all hostages, especially the women and children. Shame Israel is resisting their release.

Cheers,
Shafique

I don't waste a minute of my time thinking about terrorists whether they be men, women or children.
Any decent parent wouldn't let their kids go anywhere near trouble and therefore end up getting arrested.

Thankfully the majority of Israelis want Shalit released and want the exchange to take place. The women and children being held hostage are indeed in my mind - therein lies the difference between us.

But thankfully, your views on this, again, are in a minority. And frankly dear... you know the rest.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Thankfully the majority of Israelis want Shalit released and want the exchange to take place. The women and children being held hostage are indeed in my mind - therein lies the difference between us.

But thankfully, your views on this, again, are in a minority. And frankly dear... you know the rest.

Cheers,
Shafique

Thankfully the Israeli Government is getting stronger by the day and do not intend to give in to terrorists.
Terrorist are the scourge of society and should be exterminated.

Thankfully you are in the minority that doesn't matter.

Cheers
BM

If you want to know what most Israeli's think, they shrug their shoulders when hearing people like Shaf, DDS and BB and just continue to build THE most successfull country in the ME. Continue with their world changing technological, scientific and medical discoveries!

There is a lot of "they hatin, we rollin"

Flying Dutchman wrote:If you want to know what most Israeli's think, they shrug their shoulders when hearing people like Shaf, DDS and BB and just continue to build THE most successfull country in the ME. Continue with their world changing technological, scientific and medical discoveries!

There is a lot of "they hatin, we rollin"

FD, the Jews are only capable because of the US. It would be a dust hole if it wasn't for the US propping them up. Keep telling yourself how they are the model of peace. If the US were to stop all aid to Israel, just how many countries do you think would step in and pick up where the US left over? Please don't tell me "many". Tell me what country or countries specifically.

THE most successful?? Hardly. THE most hated, definitely. Exactly what have the Jews in Israel done to change the WORLD technologically, scientifically and medically? Please don't say "a lot". Be specific and what great work you would be referring to that changed the world.

Israel was successfull without US support, Israel is successfull with US support and Israel will put all other Arab countries to shame without US support.

Without Israeli tech, you wouldnt be able to post on DF for example.

Flying Dutchman wrote:Israel was successfull without US support, Israel is successfull with US support and Israel will put all other Arab countries to shame without US support.

Well that certainly answered my questions. You certainly are a fountain of knowledge. PMSL!!!!

Put the doobie down FD.

You hate, they roll.

Fanbois will be fanbois.

Cheers,
Shafique

Flying Dutchman wrote:You hate, they roll.

Once again, if someone doesn't support the Jews, then they clearly hate the Jews. Makes sense. Do I hate Jews? Here's my answer:



Yup. They sure do roll. Roll right over human beings with their tanks. Including an American woman who they claim threw herself under the roller.

By the way, I'm really the Queen of England.

You can't condemn the Israelis for wanting to protect their people Bora.

The IDF have my total admiration for their tireless work in defending their homelands. The place that is theirs by right.
They will never give up and unless the Palestinians agree to negotiate and then there may never be a chance of peace.

Meanwhile God bless Gilad Shalit and I hope there are many yellow ribbons tied around many trees on the West Bank.

Bethsmum wrote:The place that is theirs by right.

And what right that might be ?

desertdudeshj wrote:

Bethsmum wrote:The place that is theirs by right.

And what right that might be ?

Birth right backed up by their ability to kick arse

Birth right ? Care to expand on that a bit ?

Fanbois are agitated these days. I wonder why?

Isn't this thread about Shalit being kept away from his family because Israel won't release the women and children it is holding captive?

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Fanbois are agitated these days. I wonder why?

Isn't this thread about Shalit being kept away from his family because Israel won't release the women and children it is holding captive?

Cheers,
Shafique

Israel will not, and should not, exchange a soldier for 1000 murders and terrorists.

Thanks for giving us the reason why Israel is keeping Shalit away from his mother, and that you think women and children being held hostage are 'murders and terrorists'.

Interestingly, 63% of Israeli Jews disagree with you and agree with Shalit's mother that Israel should release the women and children etc.

I'll revisit your post when Shalit is released in a prisoner exchange.

Cheers,
Shafique

desertdudeshj wrote:Birth right ? Care to expand on that a bit ?

The Land of Israel is the historical birthplace of the Jewish people. Through 2000 years of exile the link was preserved through the habit of praying in the direction of the Temple in Jerusalem, and reciting the statement "Next year in Jerusalem" at the end of Yom Kippur, the end of the Pesach Seder, and at all celebrations. For two thousand years Jews left corners of their homes unfinished and broke a glass at a wedding ceremony as an expression of loss and a desire to return and rebuild Israel. Throughout that time there were Jews living in the Land of Israel, mainly in Jerusalem, Safed, Hebron and Tiberias. In 1856, before the Zionist movement even began, the Jewish population of Palestine was over 17,000. According to the Ottoman census, as reported by Karl Marx, Jerusalem had a Jewish majority in 1844.

Christianity and the Koran acknowledge the link between Israel and the Jews. Archeological evidence and secular writings from the Roman and Assyrian empires all confirm this relationship.

Both the Old Testament Bible and the New Testament, are accepted as major religious and cultural documents by Christians and Muslims alike. Even for non-believers, the Bible is testimony of the link that has existed between the Jewish people and the Land of Israel for 2,500 years, and the near universal acceptance of that link in Christian and Muslim civilizations.



http://zionism-israel.com/issues/Zionis ... right.html

Bethsmum wrote:You can't condemn the Israelis for wanting to protect their people Bora.

The IDF have my total admiration for their tireless work in defending their homelands. The place that is theirs by right.
They will never give up and unless the Palestinians agree to negotiate and then there may never be a chance of peace.

Meanwhile God bless Gilad Shalit and I hope there are many yellow ribbons tied around many trees on the West Bank.

Palestine is not and does not belong to Israel. In the past when the Palestinians and Jews sat down to negotiate terms of peace, and negotiations broke off because there was going to be only one way to achieve peace: Palestine accept the terms presented to them by Israel. Negotiating peace is not one country offering a take it or leave it solution.

Israel and the US, at this time, is aligning itself on the wrong side of history. They are both doomed. Time is running out for both of them. The US is slowly losing it's influence in the ME and refuses to see the bigger picture - and that is, the face of the Middle East is changing and if the US still wants to play a role in the Middle East it is going to have to come to terms that they will need to force the hand of the Jews to sit down and come to an agreement with the Palestians that both sides can live with.

It's clear that Israel is using the US. Without the support of the US Israel wouldn't be so aggressive and arrogant. And in turn, the US is using Israel. Why would the US tolerate Israel and turn a blind eye to it's continous behavior breaking international laws and agreements, land grabbing and ignoring the various groups who have condemned many of Israel's crimes against humanity and breaching international laws? If it was any other country the US would be calling for action against it. The US is keeping it's foot firmly planted in Israel for one purpose only: to keep Iran at bay. If Iran were to attack Israel it would be perceived as attacking the US, giving the US the excuse it is looking for to go to war with Iran. That's why the US continues to bend over and let the Jews keep sticking it to them.

What a load of utter crap ! So still under the false impression that the Torah is a valid and legal land deed for Israel. Having a connection to a place doesn't make it yours or give you the right to steal and destroy it.

Once again the true reason why Israel exists today is because of European guilt and Jewish terrorism and also that neither Europe or the US really wanted to keep the jews around or give up the jewish property and bussinesses the Europeans had stolen or were given under the Nazis not because they have some birth right to it !

Only Zionist Jews and Evangilicals have such a distorted view, and ofcourse a few fanbois aswell !

Once again the true reason why Israel exists today is because of European guilt and Jewish terrorism and also that neither Europe or the US really wanted to keep the jews around or give up the jewish property and bussinesses the Europeans had stolen or were given under the Nazis not because they have some birth right to it !

The Balfour declaration, which promised a Jewish State in the Land of Israel, was made in 1917, long before the Holocaust happened. The Jewish right to a state in the Land of Israel was not based on the Holocaust. The Zionist movement began in the 1880s. The Holocaust probably increased the urgency for a resolution of the situation but the end of the Second World War saw a general rejection of Imperialism and Empire in favour of national self-determination. In 1948, the same year that Israel was established, India received Independence.

The Palestinian Arabs were not innocent victims. Many supported Hitler and Germany during World War II. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, a major leader, publicly supported Hitler and allied himself with him. Other Arab countries were slow to join the war against Hitler. Only Transjordan joined with Britain in 1939; the rest just waited to see what would happen, not declaring war on Germany until 1945, after it was clear that Germany had already lost. By contrast, 30,000 Palestinian Jews joined the British Army to fight against the Axis powers.

Finally the world did not merely create a Jewish state on Arab land. It offered both peoples in Israel independence in two separate states, as defined in the Partition Plan. Had they accepted this plan the Palestinian Arabs, who had always been ruled by outside forces, would at last have had their own homeland too.

BM - good post, I trust you read what you posted and understood it.

I'll keep my points short - just for you.

1. Balfour Declaration. Have you read it? Did you understand the part where the Jewish Palestinian state was not to be to the detriment of the non-Jewish Palestinians? What does that mean to you?

2. You do realise that the Mufti in Palestine was put in power by the British - Herbert Samuel to be precise - against the will of the Palestinians. He did support Hitler, but wasn't the spokesman for the Palestinians - but a British appointee who turned on the British. Arabs were suspicious that the British weren't playing fair - and were proved right - the goodwill that T E Lawrence had wrought in WWI had evaporated by WWII.

3. The partition in the 40s was of the state of Palestine. It was not a partition of Israel. In it the UN proposed the Palestinian Jews be given 55% of Palestine, the non-Jews (Muslims and Christian Arabs) be given 45%. After 1948 Israel had 78% of Palestine. Today they don't want to give back the 22% they have been Military Occupying since 1967.

See here for a previous thread:
philosophy-dubai/circumcision-logical-why-isn-genital-sewing-t47567-15.html#p388724

Cheers,
Shafique