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I'm not avoiding any question at all - I am most happy to give you the logic behind Islam's teachings. I first need to correct some misunderstandings you have which seem to stem from your confusion over what God says in the Bible.

As I said before, I'll get to your misunderstandings after you've clarified your logic. You've talked about Moses' Tent (which is weird) but haven't answered the question about whether you are still unclean when you touch a chair that a lady has sat on (who is having her period).

So - without talking about tents - can you give me your logic for either believing chairs make you unclean, or whether and when God changed His mind about this teaching (that you are unclean if you touch a chair).

As we've seen, you've got quite a few illogical beliefs. Let's clear up whether this is yet another one of them.

(I promise you, I'll give you the proper Islamic teachings - again - and show they are logical. Indeed, I'll just quote what I said last time you brought up the subject, as it appears your memory is going).

Cheers,
Shafique

I'm happy to get on with you addressing your belief why prohibiting menstruating women from praying and reciting the Koran is logical for you.

This is a thread about your belief that Islam's teachings are logical, not your weird fantasies about the Bible.

I know you're happiest avoiding your illogical beliefs. But as I said before, you can run but you can't hide.

My beliefs are totally logical - it is your belief in the Bible that is illogical, and the bizare way you project illogical beliefs onto Islam.

So, c'mon - stop being coy and tell us whether you believe that touching a chair makes YOU unclean, because that is what the Bible says. If not, please give us your logic for not believing in this Biblical verse.

As I said, I am more than happy to correct your views on Islam - but man up and explain this illogical belief concerning menstruating women and chairs in the bible.

Cheers,
Shafique

You started a thread claiming all of Islam's beliefs are logical to you but you don't want to answer whether you believe prohibiting women from praying and reciting the Koran during their period is logical - or you believe it's logical (ie., you agree with the teaching) but don't want to embarrass yourself with an explanation in front of all the non-Muslims.

Do you want to address what Islam teaches or sweep Islam's teachings under the rug and say everything's logical to you? Doesn't seem like you put as much mental energy in coming to your 'everything is logical to me' claim as you want others to believe.

Yes, I've said I'll be happy to clear up your loon understanding and explain the logic of Islam's teachings in regards to menstruating women. I've said this a few times now, are you not reading what I post?

What is amazing is that you're evading the question about God's words in the Bible (as you believe) that say YOU would be unclean if you touch a chair that a menstruating woman sat on.

Please explain whether you still believe in this Biblical commandment (to wash after touching the chair) or what logic you used to stop believing this verse applies.

I will gladly put you out of your misery and explain where you're going wrong with your misunderstanding of Islam once you answer the above.

Are you unclean after touching a chair? Or is the Bible wrong?

Cheers,
Shafique

Great - happy to clear up any misunderstandings.

Are Muslim women on their periods allowed to pray and recite verses from the Koran (according to Sunni teachings)?

So, are you unclean after touching a chair? Or is the Bible wrong?

Islam's teachings are very logical - and yes, women who are menstruating are allowed to pray to God and recite verses of the Quran. They do not take part in the formal 5 daily prayers and some women choose to not touch the Quran physically during their periods.

As we saw in the thread about Friday sermons in a Canadian school - the girls who were having a period attended the Friday sermons and just sat out the formal collective prayers.

The logic is that prayers can be shortened, forestalled or combined when a Muslim is inconvenienced in some way - eg if one is on a journey, not well etc. God says that we should not approach prayers if we are not in full control of our senses - prayer is a time of intense meditation and concentration, and the focus is on worship of God and enhancing our spirituality.

Women who are having their period are excused from doing the 5 congregational prayers and from fasting (during Ramadhan or voluntary fasts).

There is no prohibition for women to pray to God as Muslims do in between the formal 5 daily prayers, and there is no prohibition for women to recite the Quran - although some women do not touch the Quran out of respect.

I find this logical.

The Bible says a woman is so ritually unclean that if someone touches a chair that she has sat in - that person becomes unclean. I'd like to hear your logic as to whether you believe God's commandment still applies - or
whether you think this is not God's commandment (or that God changed His mind).

Edit:
Here are Islamic references for this (and shows that women can read the Quran):
http://www.muslimaccess.com/articles/Wo ... _quran.asp


Cheers,
Shafique

Women who are having their period are excused from doing the 5 congregational prayers

Women are not excused from praying, they are prohibited. The two words are not the same.

I'm curious then, what is logical in prohibiting someone from praying if they are on their period?

There is no prohibition for women to pray to God as Muslims do in between the formal 5 daily prayers, and there is no prohibition for women to recite the Quran

So why do Muslim websites say women are prohibited from touching the Koran? Did you make up your own religion again?

Just because you claim something does not make it so. The consensus I found on the web is that Muslim women are prohibited in Islam from both touching the Koran and reciting the Koran's verses while they are on their periods:

http://sisters.islamway.com/modules.php ... le&sid=448

http://islamqa.com/en/ref/2564

Obviously, these two sources flatly contradict your claim that there is no prohibition to recite the Koran. Clearly that's something you made up on the spot and didn't bother to fact check (and, of course, projected to all of Islam, as is usual).

There are differences of opinion (some saying it is 'ok' to recite the Koan) but the facts from the two articles are that a) the majority of scholars prohibit reciting the Koran and b) with point a in mind, that makes your statement false.

There also seems to be an even greater consensus that touching the Koran during menstruation is haram. But please, show me that a significant portion of Muslim scholars are not of this opinion and I'll begin to believe what you're claiming.

did anyone read this book?
"The Bible, The Qur'an and Science"
it is a good one, google it...

eh - I've given you the logic, I've given you the link to Islamic resources.

Women can pray - just not the 5 congregational prayers. Women can recite the Quran - all are agreed on this. Some women/scholars say women shouldn't touch the Quran physically, but not all Scholars/Women agree with this interpretation/teaching.

Now, by contrast, we await your logic for the Biblical teaching that if YOU touch a chair that a menstruating woman has sat upon, you become unclean and need to take a bath.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Women can pray...Women can recite the Quran.... all are agreed on this.

There is not agreement on this if you read the two links I provided with quotes from Muslim scholars.

For instance, Muhammad said:

In a letter to ‘Amr ibn Hazm, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told the people of Yemen: “No one should touch the Qur’aan except one who is taahir (pure).”

According to the Koran and sayings of Muhammad, menstruating women are in a state of ritual impurity.

Therefore, they are not allowed to touch the Koran based on the above hadith.

Even your own article admits that its opinion is in the minority:

There is NO evidence whatsoever that says that a woman who is in her periods or a woman who is having post-natal bleeding that she can not touch the Quran. This is a minority opinion, however it is the strongest opinion.

Of course, the evidence is clear based on Muhammad's saying in the sahih hadith I provided and which the early Islamic scholars accepted as genuine in their writings.

shafique wrote:Some women/scholars say women shouldn't touch the Quran physically, but not all Scholars/Women agree with this interpretation/teaching.

Nice manipulation. Actually *most* say this.

This is similar to your manipulation of the words 'excused' and 'prohibited'.

And no, I don't see the logic in *prohibiting* a woman who is menstruating from performing her prayer at the Mosque - especially since you now say she can pray at home just fine, so your excuses are hardly convincing.

Needless to say, women in other religions can pray just fine. You're grasping at pathetic excuses to justify your 7th century misogynist beliefs. So much for 'logic'.

Chalk another one up for the shameless individual.

So you'd care to explain what's 'logical' in PROHIBITING menstruating women from praying at a Mosque when shafique has said they're more than capable of praying at home?

No? Another herp-a-derp one liner?

Thought so.

eh - really - did you not read the posts above and have you already forgotten that women do go to the mosque for Friday sermon when menstruating? There IS unanimous agreement that women can recite the Quran - read the article again. Touching the Quran is a separate issue.

Just because you apparently don't agree with the logic behind why women don't perform the congregational prayers, doesn't mean you can keep avoiding the question posed about your logic.

Now, by contrast, we await your logic for the Biblical teaching that if YOU touch a chair that a menstruating woman has sat upon, you become unclean and need to take a bath.

Still waiting.

Cheers,
Shafique

Just because you apparently don't agree with the logic behind why women don't perform the congregational prayers, doesn't mean you can keep avoiding the question posed about your logic.

I'll wait for desert to actually share his thought process if/why he believes banning women from praying at the Mosque is logical - especially when you make clear Muslim women can pray .... but just not during 'congregational prayers' for some reason.

Hey, I understand why you're running away from the discussion now - you've been punked. At best, you now seem to be saying 'Oh, only some scholars have a logical explanation - but I'm going to ignore them'..

But you can't hide from this question eh:

Now, by contrast, we await your logic for the Biblical teaching that if YOU touch a chair that a menstruating woman has sat upon, you become unclean and need to take a bath.

Please explain your logic.

Cheers,
Shafique

Yes, it's logical to prevent women from praying in a congregational prayer when you say women can pray just fine all by themselves.

Oh, that's very logical.

Thanks, now we've had your sarcasm towards Muslim logic, let's hear your Christian logic for the Biblical commandment that you need to wash after touching a chair.

This should be interesting.

Cheers,
Shafique