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shafique wrote:RC - As I said before, you are entitled to your view that the Europol stats do not reflect reality in Europe.

I maintain that they do. Brievik was just the last example of that.

The fact that the separatist threat in Russia happens to be from Chechens does not change my view at all. In fact it reinforces my view that the stats show that the perception is indeed incorrect.

But, you are free to believe otherwise.

Cheers,
Shafique

Bethsmum wrote:Well it seems that the British courts think the accused Asian men are a little more than numpties as they are now banged up in a top security prison until their next Court appearance in October.

No surprise that Sir Shafique finds it impossible to condemn his Muslim brothers but chooses to defend them, even though they were a serious threat to our people.
No surprise that during the recent riots he could not bring himself to comdemn the black boy who kicked the old white man to death.

No wonder he will never be accepted as English.

shafique wrote: RC's tantrums about Chechen seperatists can't change the actual terror attacks that are being carried out by Brievik and his ilk.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:The point is Bora is that the reality is that 99.6% of the horrible terrorists happen to be the non-Muslim variety.

The 0.4% that are Muslim are just as horrible and should be dealt with in the same way. That 6 potential Muslim terrorists have been caught is a great thing - it will reduce the 0.4%. I wish it were zero.

BM's rants and RC's tantrums about Chechen seperatists can't change the actual terror attacks that are being carried out by Brievik and his ilk.

Cheers,
Shafique

While religion contributes in many cases to increased feelings of loyalty toward a kindred community that may be oceans away from an individual’s country of citizenship, the primary cause of these horrible phenomena is foreign occupation.

shafique wrote:What confused you about my answer?

How is correcting the wrong perception with facts 'evidence of bigotry'?

Again, let me quote from the official Europol report:

Islamist terrorism is still perceived as being the biggest threat worldwide, despite the fact that the EU only faced one Islamist terrorist attack in 2008. This bomb attack took place in the UK…Separatist terrorism remains the terrorism area which affects the EU most. This includes Basque separatist terrorism in Spain and France, and Corsican terrorism in France…Past contacts between ETA and the FARC illustrate the fact that also separatist terrorist organizations seek cooperation partners outside the EU on the basis of common interests. In the UK, dissident Irish republican groups, principally the RIRA and the CIRA, and other paramilitary groups may continue to engage in crime and violence.

pg 7

Cheers,
Shafique

Perception is not reality. Due to the right wing’s influence and propaganda, people mistakenly think that
Islamic terrorism is the greatest threat to the Western world. It is even a commonly held belief that Islamic terrorism poses an existential threat–that the very survival of the Western world is at stake. Of course, the reality is that there are other groups that engage in terrorism on a much larger scale, yet these terrorist incidents are minimized. Acts of terrorism committed by Muslims are purposefully sensationalized and focused upon, culminating in the idea that “(nearly) all terrorists are Muslims.”

Even if you factor in Chechen separatists and their terror attacks, the majority of attacks will still be by non-Muslims. Do the math.

99.4% of terror attacks by non-Muslims. Those are the stark facts. Trying to spin it otherwise will be interesting to watch.

Even if you factor in Chechen separatists and their terror attacks, the majority of attacks will still be by non-Muslims. Do the math.

shafique wrote:Even if you factor in Chechen separatists and their terror attacks, the majority of attacks will still be by non-Muslims. Do the math.

shafique wrote:The figures and actual attacks are out there - you tried to dismiss the non-Muslim attacks as fire-crackers etc, but yet make a song and dance when 6 numpties who are 'thinking' of carrying out attacks are caught by unarmed police.

Just wishing that the ETA and pIRA bombings were 'trash can fires' or not intended to kill is sad and funny.

But what is clear, you can't provide any evidence to back up your belief. 99.4% - cold hard stats.

Cheers,
Shafique

Two of the men are said to have traveled to Pakistan where they received terrorist training and made suicide videos before returning to build a bomb.

The men were under surveillance as part of an “intelligence led operation” by MI5 and the police as they discussed their plans, which were picked up by listening devices.

Two other men allegedly helped raise £12,000 by collecting for charities which was said to be used for the purposes of planning their attacks. A sixth man was accused of failing to inform police.

As the men made their first appearance in court, Deborah Walsh, prosecuting, said: "The terrorist ideology behind these offences is to commit mass murder in the UK."

Irfan Nasser, 30, from Sparkhill, Birmingham and Irfan Khalid, 26, of Sparkbrook, Birmingham, are accused of plotting their attacks between Christmas Day last year and their arrest last Monday.

The charges say that they travelled to Pakistan for training in terrorism including bomb making, weapons and poison making.

While there they are said to have made a “martyrdom film” and later began planning a “suicide bombing campaign or eve[...]

Ashik Ali’s brother, Bahader, 28, and another man, Mohammed Rizwan, 32, both from Sparkbrook, Birmingham, allegedly knew of the plans but failed to inform police “information as soon as reasonably practicable

shafique wrote:But hey, if you do have trouble with the maths (or more likely know you'll be failing yet again), I'll understand why you won't add a few numbers together.

Go ahead, blame me for your failings again. 99.4% - pretty high statistic. What can you bring it down by if you add the Chechen attacks?

A six-member gang of suspected Pakistani-origin suicide bombers have been arrested for plotting a terror attack in Britain similar to 9/11, police said.


However, no specific targets were identified when the men were produced at the West London Magistrates' Court Monday, The Sun reported.

Irfan Khalid, 26, Irfan Nasser, 30, and Ashik Ali, 26, are accused of plotting to be suicide bombers and recruiting others for terrorist training.

Nasser and Khalid are also charged with travelling to Pakistan for terrorism training.

Rahin Ahmed, 25, is accused of helping others get training and for collecting money to fund terrorist acts.

Ashik Ali's brother Bahader, 28, is charged with allowing money or property to be available for terrorism.

The men are all from Birmingham. They have been remanded to custody to appear in court again next month.

Tapes revealed the group had practised making bombs and poisons at a training camp in Pakistan, the court heard.

One suspect was allegedly recorded as saying: "This is revenge for everything they're doing. It is another 9/11."

The gang planned to drive around Britain to make suicide strikes on various targets, the court heard.

The plot was reportedly drawn in revenge for cartoons of Prophet Mohammed that appeared in a Danish newspaper.

Police said the men aimed to fund their operation with money raised for a Muslim charity. But the plan backfired after the gang gambled away thousands of pounds on the stock exchange.

The gang allegedly collected cash from Muslims during Ramadan, claiming to be raising funds for charity. Police found five buckets containing 1,500 pounds in raids.

The gang also made "martyr videos". One suspect allegedly recorded a warning, saying "suicide bombs on the streets, spilling so much blood you won't believe it".

The plot was reportedly drawn in revenge for cartoons of Prophet Mohammed that appeared in a Danish newspaper.

Overview: Russia continued to endure terrorist attacks linked to instability in the North Caucasus. The most visible and largest attacks occurred in two Moscow Metro stations in March. Radical militants calling for a Caliphate within the Caucasus continued to constitute the main terrorist threat.

2010 Terrorist Incidents: Terrorist attacks in Russia continued to emanate from the ongoing unrest in the North Caucasus. Officials in mid-December cited 529 terrorist attacks over the course of the year in which 218 victims were killed and 536 injured. Suicide bombings at two Moscow Metro stations on March 29 by two women from Dagestan killed 40 and injured about 100 civilians. Other terrorist attacks occurred in the North Caucasus Federal District, particularly in the republics of Dagestan, Ingushetia, North Ossetia, Chechnya, and Kabardino-Balkaria.

The most serious terrorist attacks in the North Caucasus were a March 31 suicide bombing in Kizlyar, Dagestan, which killed 12 and injured 37; a September 9 car bombing at a market in Vladikavkaz, North Ossetia, which killed 18 and injured 140; and a May bombing in Stavropol, which killed seven and injured over 40.

event horizon wrote:

The plot was reportedly drawn in revenge for cartoons of Prophet Mohammed that appeared in a Danish newspaper.

Woah, hold on there.

Does shafique/Ron Paul know about this?

On page 2 we saw shafique *already* concluding - before the facts were in - this plot was about political reasons, not over satirical images of his prophet he wants to see criminalized (and his fellow Muslims want blood over).

The bloodiest of the attacks were carried out in Russian capital on March 29, when two suicide bombers blew themselves up in Moscow's busy metro during morning rush hour, killing 40 people and injuring some 100 others. Other major terrorist attacks occurred in the volatile North Caucasus region, particularly in the republics of Dagestan, Ingushetia, North Ossetia, Chechnya, and Kabardino-Balkaria.

While these attacks were designed to cause mass civilian casualties, far more numerous were attacks targeting security forces and government facilities in the region,

shafique wrote:But, taking the numbers at face value, I guess I'll have to start saying Europe, excluding Russia, 98.8% of terrorist acts are carried out by non-Muslims.

security forces and government facilities in the region

Attacks against government workers I'd class as terrorism, but attacking soldiers I'd say is not.