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I came to this chamber, in which 64 years ago the nations of the world declared the establishment of a Jewish state, although the Arabs have an automatic majority here. Yes, I know that that does not matter much, since we have the automatic veto of the United States in the Security Council. More importantly, we have an automatic majority in the U.S. Congress and our lobby, AIPAC, has a grip on President Obama in a sensitive place. But how can we even compare the automatic majority against Israel to the automatic majority for it?

"Having already made Sara come all the way to New York, I will present to you my truth with regard to the Palestinian request that you recognize, ostensibly, a state of their own in the 1967 borders whose capital is East Jerusalem.

"I do not understand why they are making do with one country. I am ready to offer them at least four: one in Gaza, the second an enclave in the Nablus area - with perhaps a tunnel to Tul Karm, the third in the Ramallah district, and the fourth in the Hebron Hills, without, of course, Baruch Marzel and the Tomb of the Patriarchs.

"You can learn about my truth with regard to the Jordan Valley from the tape of the meeting with settlers in Ofra 10 years ago. I told them that during my first term as prime minister, the Americans promised me that I would be the one to sketch the borders of 'defined military sites' in the territories that according to the Oslo Accords would remain in Israel's hands. I told the settlers that the way I see it, the entire Jordan Valley is a military zone and I boasted that 'from that moment I stopped the Oslo Accords.'

"I said in my speech at Bar-Ilan University that I support a two-state solution. That was shortly after President Barack Hussein Obama's Cairo speech, when I was afraid he would call my bluff and go all the way with his Muslim friends.

"I understand that if I keep wasting my time distributing macho pictures to the media, even Glenn Beck, if he is elected president of the United States, will not be able to ensure that the State of Israel does not become a pariah state like apartheid South Africa. And so I have to toss the ball into the Palestinian court.

"Despite the political price I will pay for this, and the rebuke I'll get from my father, I will reveal to you today for the first time things that were unknown until now: I told Obama I was willing to withdraw from 95 percent of the West Bank and to conduct negotiations over exchanges of territory. But don't get too excited, since I conditioned this revolutionary proposal on two things: First, the Palestinians' express agreement that the negotiations will result in a peace treaty between the state of the Palestinian people and the nation state of the Jewish people; and second, a pre-understanding that the agreement on the establishment of a Palestinian state will constitute the end of the conflict without hearing any more about the return of refugees. From my perspective, these are iron-clad conditions.

"I know that from the point of view of Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, accepting these conditions is like suicide. No Palestinian leader can allow himself to give up at the outset on the right of return and alienate himself from Israel's Palestinian citizens, particularly at a time when we are settling Jews in all parts of the West Bank and East Jerusalem. The truth is that this is the reason I invented these conditions. It is clear to me that among the Arabs, just like with us, politicians are prepared to kill and be killed on the altar of their country. See you at Masada.

Facts, not hype.

shafique wrote:You're in a minority FD - the rest of the world understand that the issue is the Military Occupation that's the main issue.

Anyway - the UN vote is this week, as is Netanyahu's 'speech of truth'. Let's see what develops.

Cheers,
Shafique

Flying Dutchman wrote:Nope, its more about the mere existence of Israel as a jewish state than about the disputed areas.

shafique wrote:The US vetoing the plan hardly puts a spanner in the works - the diplomatic initiative is working very well at the moment. Israel is being more and more isolated, and the US desperately don't want to use the veto - as they are vetoing exactly what they have said they'd support - a two state solution.

The Palestinians seem to have learnt the diplomatic lesson very well - it is the Israelis that are panicking.

It will be fascinating to hear what Bibi has to say and how many countries he manages to persuade to vote against the proposal.

Imagining that the issue isn't one of Israel's Military Occupation is not helping any fanbois. It is just laughable these days when fanbois try the 'but Occupier is actually the victim, and the occupied is the aggressor' line. No one buys it any more - not even most Americans!

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Indeed DDS.

BM - not long to go now. Let's see how many countries (including our own country) vote with Palestine and how many vote with Israel.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote::D BM and I weren't born in Mauritius.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:That's why my parents refer to themselves as 'only' British and I'm English (born and bred). Try and keep up BM, really

Cheers,
Shafique

U.S. Muslims: Americans First?

Asked whether they think of themselves first as an American or first as a Muslim, a 47% plurality of U.S. Muslims say they consider themselves Muslims first; 28% say they think of themselves first as Americans. In
May 2006, when U.S. Christians were asked a parallel question, 42% said they think of themselves as Christians first, while 48% said they are Americans first.

The survey findings suggest the question is as much a measure of personal religious commitment as an expression of patriotism to the United States. Among Muslim Americans who have a high level of religious commitment, 70% say they consider themselves to be Muslims first. But among those with low religious commitment, just 28% see themselves this way, while a 47% plurality identifies first as American, and 12% say they consider themselves equally Muslim and American.

The link between religiosity and self-identity is similar among Christians in America. By roughly two-to-one (59% vs. 30%), U.S. Christians who say religion is very important identify as Christians first, while those who say religion is less important identify as Americans first, by a margin of 76% to 18%. Similarly, most white evangelical Protestants (62%) say they primarily identify themselves as Christians rather than Americans, while most white mainline Protestants (65%) identify as Americans first.

Gen Sir David Richards, Chief of the Defence Staff recently paid tribute to serving Muslim soldiers and called for more to join up.

"We've got a very bright, vibrant and growing number of Muslims in the British armed forces and they are a very important part of our lives.

"They are very proud members of the British nation but they happen to be Muslims as well, they don't think there's any contradiction at all."

herve wrote:http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Politics/2011/Sep-15/148791-interview-refugees-will-not-be-citizens-of-new-state.ashx#axzz1YigOBy4T

The ambassador unequivocally says that Palestinian refugees would not become citizens of the sought for U.N.-recognized Palestinian state, an issue that has been much discussed. “They are Palestinians, that’s their identity,” he says. “But … they are not automatically citizens.”

This would not only apply to refugees in countries such as Lebanon, Egypt, Syria and Jordan or the other 132 countries where Abdullah says Palestinians reside. Abdullah said that “even Palestinian refugees who are living in [refugee camps] inside the [Palestinian] state, they are still refugees. They will not be considered citizens.”

The United States has of late been taking steps to dissuade the Palestinians from taking their bid to the U.N., sending negotiators to meet with Palestinian officials. The ambassador says these talks have not been fruitful.

“They won’t offer us anything … that saves the peace process,” he says. “They would offer us nothing except to say that they will cut financial aid, and other such threats. Dignity is much more important than a loaf of bread."

The last minute threats Abdullah refers to include a bill proposed by the chair of the U.S. House Foreign Relations Committee, Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, which would cut U.S. funding to any U.N. body that recognizes the Palestinian statehood

A U.S. veto in the Security Council, Abdullah says, would only harm the great power. “The United States is propagating that it is the champion of freedom and democracy around the world, and if it denies the Palestinians the right to be free, to be democratic, and to live in dignity, it is not a good sign for the U.S.

but ofcourse there were any common sense

With already a dwidling image internationaly the US really can't afford to veto this, but still won't be surprised if it does.