Dubai Forums Dubai Discussions Dubai Politics Talk

On another thread, a member defended the wife beating verse in the Koran by changing the definition of violence.

shafique wrote:violence or battery against women [in Islam] is not allowed - corporal punishment as a last resort and after a few months of warnings etc is the extent that a husband can punish his wife, anything in excess of that is illegal.

But is the poster, shafiqure, correct? Does a violent act - hitting/slapping - become non-violent because someone calls it corporal punishment (which the dictionary defines as "punishment of a physical nature, such as caning, flogging, or beating")?

Is shafique simply playing a name game by calling something by another name to mask what it really is?

To me, it seems like a feeble attempt at spin mode. But we'll see what the members think.

Is shaving women heads for not covering their hair is an act of violence or not??

Check the bible please

You still live in the 7th century Sym?
can you name a country... TODAY... where women have their head shaved.

symmetric wrote:Is shaving women heads for not covering their hair is an act of violence or not??

Check the bible please

You can claim that a passage *comparing* women with uncovered heads to Pagan women who shaved their heads is violent all you want (hint: you misinterpreted what the verse says), but I'm simply asking if hitting/slapping are acts of violence.

gertrude wrote:You still live in the 7th century Sym?
can you name a country... TODAY... where women have their head shaved.

I've seen couple of Western women shaving their head calling it fashion

event horizon wrote:On another thread, a member defended the wife beating verse in the Koran by changing the definition of violence.

shafique wrote:violence or battery against women [in Islam] is not allowed - corporal punishment as a last resort and after a few months of warnings etc is the extent that a husband can punish his wife, anything in excess of that is illegal.

But is the poster, shafiqure, correct? Does a violent act - hitting/slapping - become non-violent because someone calls it corporal punishment (which the dictionary defines as "punishment of a physical nature, such as caning, flogging, or beating")?

Is shafique simply playing a name game by calling something by another name to mask what it really is?

To me, it seems like a feeble attempt at spin mode. But we'll see what the members think.

oh my god , you are not about to lecture the Muslims world in women abuse , are you ?
even if we are allowed to beat women on religion bases , we still can't beat your society in this issue or execute it as much as you guys .

You can smell the desperation from the loons. Notice how eh is avoiding the religion forum like the plague these past few days. The usual tactics - make loon accusations, be exposed, ingore threads for a bit, start new thread with another loon accusation.

eh - why are you avoiding addressing your beliefs - be they talking donkeys, the Pope being the anti-christ and your latest new religion where damned and condemned Hindus don't go to hell?

Anyway, back to this latest spin:

The fact is that herve produced a report on honour killings showing the numbers and make up of those committing this crime against women. It is a crime that is against Islam and that about one in 10 of reported honour killings are carried out by non-Muslims. In India there is a serious problem of under-reporting of this crime - so the figures are higher than reported.

We uncovered research that showed that crimes against women are worldwide and that honour killings forms one form of these crimes. To put the numbers of these heinous crimes into perspective, reports showed that in the USA alone over half a million acts of rape and other violence against women by intimate partners occur EVERY YEAR and that the rate of killings in this group is around 2000 each year. This is from a report tackling all forms of violence against women.

Islam is quite clear - honour killings is against Islam and not allowed in any way. Wife or female battery or violence is similarly not allowed.

eh is trying to spin what God says in the Quran is the ONLY allowable form of physical punishment a man can administer to his wife - and therefore twisting what is effectively a commandment from God that bans all the acts of violence that men around the world inflict on women.

I've challenged eh many times before to show the statistics of where this commandment by God is being implemented by Muslim men. I.e. count the number of women who go through this series of escalating punishments ordained by God - starting by verbal warning, then escalating to men not sleeping with their wives for a period of time (a punishment more on the man, I've argued) and then finally corporal punishment carried out not in the heat of anger.

I know of no Muslim man in my experience that has carried out this set of punishments. Therefore eh's attempt at using this one commandment by God and misrepresenting as somehow Islam condoning violence is transparent as it is desperate.

Cheers,
Shafique

As Zonker so eloquently put it a very shameless individual indeed ! I dont think in all his 4620 posts of his has he ever answered a question straight up. The example of Eh is that of those air filled clown punching bags, they always stand up again to take another beating. Only our bozo here is filled with hot air instead.

uaekid wrote: oh my god , you are not about to lecture the Muslims world in women abuse , are you ?
even if we are allowed to beat women on religion bases , we still can't beat your society in this issue or execute it as much as you guys .

We have discussed this before.
Apart from the number of abused women, there is a fundamental difference between the West and islamic countries.
In the West abuse against women is illegal and punished, in islamic countries, abuse against women is LEGAL and authorized

symmetric wrote:I've seen couple of Western women shaving their head calling it fashion

You silly boy! No-one makes women shave their head in the West. If it's done for fashion purposes then it is of their own free will.

Do try to drag yourself into the 21st century Sym. You're not in deepest darkest Persia now (where ever that was).

-- Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:12 pm --

desertdudeshj wrote:As Zonker so eloquently put it a very shameless individual indeed ! I dont think in all his 4620 posts of his has he ever answered a question straight up. The example of Eh is that of those air filled clown punching bags, they always stand up again to take another beating. Only our bozo here is filled with hot air instead.

Resorting to other posters for the crack nowadays munchkin? 'As Zonker put it...' 'over to you Shaf...' Have you mislaid your phrase book of late?

-- Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:19 pm --

I know of no Muslim man in my experience that has carried out this set of punishments. Therefore eh's attempt at using this one commandment by God and misrepresenting as somehow Islam condoning violence is transparent as it is desperate

Should I help you out sunshine? True, it isn't a man showing violence towards his wife, but towards his daughter. or doesn't that count?

Parents charged over suspected 'honour' killing. It's a very recent story in the UK.

The parents of Shafilea Ahmed, a suspected victim of a so-called honour killing eight years ago, have been charged with murder and are due to appear in court.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/sep/0 ... ur-killing

Wife or female battery or violence is similarly not allowed.

Let's see the evidence.

eh is trying to spin what God says in the Quran is the ONLY allowable form of physical punishment a man can administer to his wife

I'm not trying to spin that physical punishment is not violence.

and therefore twisting what is effectively a commandment from God that bans all the acts of violence that men around the world inflict on women.

The passage is only on husbands and wives - which does allow violence against wives.

How do you interpret the passage to mean that fathers can't hit daughters, brothers hit sisters, governments lash/hand chop females?

All of the above are acts of violence and I would say every Muslim would readily agree that 2 of the above 3 are definitely allowed in Islam if not 3 of 3.

Therefore eh's attempt at using this one commandment by God and misrepresenting as somehow Islam condoning violence is transparent as it is desperate.

Nice try.

We've already had a thread where a husband beat his wife based on this verse.

herve wrote:

uaekid wrote: oh my god , you are not about to lecture the Muslims world in women abuse , are you ?
even if we are allowed to beat women on religion bases , we still can't beat your society in this issue or execute it as much as you guys .

We have discussed this before.
Apart from the number of abused women, there is a fundamental difference between the West and islamic countries.
In the West abuse against women is illegal and punished, in islamic countries, abuse against women is LEGAL and authorized

What do you mean apart from ?is it that simple to you what women sufer?or is it just a given thing? And would you rather discuess written words or the actual event ?

shafique wrote:I've challenged eh many times before to show the statistics of where this commandment by God is being implemented by Muslim men. I.e. count the number of women who go through this series of escalating punishments ordained by God - starting by verbal warning, then escalating to men not sleeping with their wives for a period of time (a punishment more on the man, I've argued) and then finally corporal punishment carried out not in the heat of anger.

I know of no Muslim man in my experience that has carried out this set of punishments. Therefore eh's attempt at using this one commandment by God and misrepresenting as somehow Islam condoning violence is transparent as it is desperate.

Challenge still stands, eh.

As do all the threads in the religion forum you're running away from.

Cheers,
Shafique

Bethsmum wrote:

symmetric wrote:I've seen couple of Western women shaving their head calling it fashion

You silly boy! No-one makes women shave their head in the West. If it's done for fashion purposes then it is of their own free will.

Do try to drag yourself into the 21st century Sym. You're not in deepest darkest Persia now (where ever that was).

I already said "..calling it fashion".

It would take you million years before you be able to obtain 1 bit of our beautiful Persian culture.
We won't accept your begging for this one, sorry you may remain in your filthy garbage of hatred

And who gives a sweating turd of irani culture. I don't see anyone lining up to apply for iriani citizenship.
however iranis beg for Canadian, UK, US, French citizenship

What challenge stands?

Does it have to do with whether physical punishment is an act of violence?

Your request has also been rejected

capsicum wrote:And who gives a sweating turd of irani culture. I don't see anyone lining up to apply for iriani citizenship.
however iranis beg for Canadian, UK, US, French citizenship

Yes Caps, I don't see Persia on 'Where to go for Your Next Holiday'. Even Sym goes to Europe for his LOL!!!

Eh asked which challenges still stand. The clue was in the word 'challenged' in the following post and the reference to the others in religion forum he's running away from.

It just goes to show, stats (and evidence in general) are not a loon's best friend!

shafique wrote:I've challenged eh many times before to show the statistics of where this commandment by God is being implemented by Muslim men. I.e. count the number of women who go through this series of escalating punishments ordained by God - starting by verbal warning, then escalating to men not sleeping with their wives for a period of time (a punishment more on the man, I've argued) and then finally corporal punishment carried out not in the heat of anger.

I know of no Muslim man in my experience that has carried out this set of punishments. Therefore eh's attempt at using this one commandment by God and misrepresenting as somehow Islam condoning violence is transparent as it is desperate.

Challenge still stands, eh.

As do all the threads in the religion forum you're running away from.

Cheers,
Shafique

Many Iranians are pretty hairy. I'm not saying all of them but a lot are.

Btw, why does no one want to tackle whether hits and slaps are acts of violence?

You can discuss domestic abuse on another thread.

event horizon wrote:Many Iranians are pretty hairy. I'm not saying all of them but a lot are.

Nothing more off putting than a woman with a monobrow EH. I bet those poor women are thankful for waxing procedures. I noticed a lot of whitening creams on sale whilst I was in Dubai. I was even offered some when I was in Boots The Chemist. Seeing as I am blonde and white I found that quite amusing! But not as amusing as my little chat with my Pakistani taxi driver. They seem to take to me but I do wish they would keep their eyes on the road whilst driving, rather that look in the rear view mirror!
He was telling me about the Swat Valley and I was telling him about my farm in England. He asked me if I had rice fields. Bless! I told him, no, I have cows. He seemed quite impressed with that and asked if I had cattle also. Yes, I also have cattle, he was mega impressed at that