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Is the news of the Taliban killing 30 Navy Seals, 7 Afghan commandos and an interpreter a sign of things to come?

The death toll is greater than the Somalia 'Black Hawk Down' casualties suffered by the US - and a major propaganda coup for the Taliban.

The interesting thing is that the news of this military strike is being used by both sides in the US - those calling for troops to be brought home quickly and those who say they it should be delayed.

The casualty figures have increased slightly - but the propaganda benefit is clearly with the Taliban. I still come back to the often asked question - what has been achieved, and was it worth it?

Cheers,
Shafique

How about your condolences to the Families?

herve wrote:How about your condolences to the Families?

Didn't see any of those when you were rubbing your hands in glee at the Norway massacre assuming away your conformation bias. You're one piece of work.

herve wrote:How about your condolences to the Families?

Sure, my condolences are indeed with the American and Afghani families who have lost loved ones - on a human level I do feel sympathy for sons, fathers etc being killed. The fact that they were soldiers and killed in a military strike does mean they are casualties of war - but a death is a death.

Note that I did ask the question:

The casualty figures have increased slightly - but the propaganda benefit is clearly with the Taliban. I still come back to the often asked question - what has been achieved, and was it worth it?

herve, I'm not as full of hate as you. You're kind would celebrate the killings of others and show no sympathy for their families - even if those being killed were just defending their homeland or were 'collateral damage'.

Cheers,
Shafique

I forgot why the US is in Afghanistan.

I say withdraw American troops from Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq and let these savages kill each other. When it's over the US can decide whether to help the country or drop a bomb on it, depending on who survived.

Well, they tried negotiating with the Taliban authorities in 2001 (before 9/11) to allow a pipeline through - that didn't work. They then invaded after 9/11 - that hasn't worked out too well either (not least for the Afghans killed).

But that said, my point too is "what has been achieved, and was it worth it?"

For me 'savages' is indeed an appropriate description of people who kill on a massive scale and show no regrets or give excuses for the killing. The Afghan vicitims are indeed being killed by savages - Afghan warlords, Taliban and coalition armaments - all killing Afghans etc, but not in equal numbers.

Cheers,
Shafique

Afghanistan is a meat grinder, many armies have tried to conqer but have failed. Thats actually the best thing to do is to leave them alone. Although the only "good" outcome of this is that the Taliban are no longer in power and hope they never are again but if they were left alone, that would have been the best for many countries, maybe not for the people of afghanistan ( or maybe for them too who knows ). The Taliban never had any ambitions of an emipre or to invade or conquer any country. They were happy living in the 1400's all by themselves.

Somehow I can't but help but laugh out loud at the irony of all this !



BTW US has troops in Pakistan ! Oh and yes withdrawn troops from the region, they shouldn't have been there in the first place, but that lesson has come at a very expensive price.

shafique wrote:.........my point too is "what has been achieved, and was it worth it?"

For me 'savages' is indeed an appropriate description of people who kill on a massive scale and show no regrets or give excuses for the killing. The Afghan vicitims are indeed being killed by savages - Afghan warlords, Taliban and coalition armaments - all killing Afghans etc, but not in equal numbers.

Cheers,
Shafique

The fact that they were soldiers and killed in a military strike does mean they are casualties of war - but a death is a death

That is such a "so what" attitude. It appears that your sympathies lie with the Afghanis.

****

Savages, the warlords and the Taliban, come from tents, huts and caves, are uneducated, uncivilized people who don't have any regard for human life. I wouldn't even refer to them as having a caveman mentality because that would be an insult the the caveman. I'm sure during "peaceful" times Afghanis kill each other. |It is no different from Pakistan where there are Pakistani terrorist attacks involving innocent Pakistani people.

Do you think Afghanistan would be better off or worse off if the coalition forces pulled out? Would the warlords and Taliban join up with the present government and work towards a better country? What impact would it have on Pakistan, a breeding ground for terrorists?

It definitely wasn't worth it to send military forces into Afghanistan and the lives lost - with the exception of warlords and Taliban. Pulling out coalition forces will allow Afghanistan to revert back to what it was and wake up their sleeping dinosaurs.

Bora - I'll be the first to admit I don't have all the answers here. I initially supported the invasion, because of the travesties reported by the Taliban rule - especially the repression of women. The fact they were doing it in the name of Islam was even more reason to wish their over-throw.

But I still keep coming back to the point 'what was achieved, and was it worth it'?

The Taliban were replaced by warlords who were no better - that I blame squarely on the invaders for making deals with people they knew were corrupt and brutal.

If we rewind to before the invasion, the UN reported that opium production had ceased (for example) and the war lords weren't oppressing the people. Yes, the Taliban were imposing strict laws - but those could have been dealt with over time (without the massive loss of lives so far).

The Taliban were engaging in discussions - and were even doing university tours of the USA:
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/03/19/world ... gewanted=1

Now it looks like the Taliban will be back in power. So what was achieved, and was it worth it?

Cheers,
Shafique

There was very little of what the Taliban did that would have gone against the practices of the first Muslims.

The ing images of public executions in Afghanistan and the cruel and unusual punishments the Taliban employed - practiced under the first generations of Muslims - are what first pops into my mind when I think of people who oppose the Taliban as 'un-Islamic'.

desertdudeshj wrote:Afghanistan is a meat grinder, many armies have tried to conqer but have failed.

Uhm, how did Afghanistan become Islamic?

Mr BB and I were talking about the helicopter that went down with the navy seals and got to wondering: Is it a coincidence that the troop of navy seals were the very same troop that was involved in putting that sick dog OBL down? Kind of like Pakistan government not knowing that OBL was hiding out under their nose, and the capture was only possible as a result of the US military NOT informing the Pakistani government about the raid? Could it be possible that someone in the Afghani government/military tipped off the Taliban?? That that particular troop would be travelling in that particular helicopter in a particular area was just luck for the Taliban??? It's something to think about.

It was a lucky shot from a RPG, a surface to surface weapon. Kinda like trying to hit a chopper with a pistol. Its a dumb weapon and not a fire and forget, does not have any guidance and cannot lock on to target.

It would be more worrying if it was brought down by a SAM. Something the Taliban don't have and until the US supplied stingers SAMs to the Mujahideen the Russaians had the advantage in the invasion and total control over Afghani airspace.

Now it was the cold war I'm sure the Russians would be more than happy to supply the taliban with SAMs just to get even.

P.S : I've mentioned Russia now so expect an entrance from Red Chief !

desertdudeshj wrote:It was a lucky shot from a RPG, a surface to surface weapon. Kinda like trying to hit a chopper with a pistol. Its a dumb weapon and not a fire and forget, does not have any guidance and cannot lock on to target.

It would be more worrying if it was brought down by a SAM. Something the Taliban don't have and until the US supplied stingers SAMs to the Mujahideen the Russaians had the advantage in the invasion and total control over Afghani airspace.

Now it was the cold war I'm sure the Russians would be more than happy to supply the taliban with SAMs just to get even.

P.S : I've mentioned Russia now so expect an entrance from Red Chief !

Have you been googling all these weapons munchkin? You should ask Herve! He will have first hand knowledge of all these weapons as he has fought for his country. Now he's a real man and doesn't need to play pretendy soldiers.

WTF has Herve has anything to do with this ? Windbag go back to your silly fluff and tell everyone about your sheep or how you molest vegetables and try not to attempt any thread with an iota of any intelligence.

desertdudeshj wrote:WTF has Herve has anything to do with this ? Windbag go back to your silly fluff and tell everyone about your sheep or how you molest vegetables and try not to attempt any thread with an iota of any intelligence.

Oh dear munchkin! Did I hit your sore spot? There was you waxing lyrical about arms when in reality you have absolutely no knowledge about them at all except for what you've googled!
Now Herve! He will have first hand knowledge about all this and that as he has actually been in the Forces!
You carry on putting the world to rights on your journeys to and from Dubai Mall, there's a good fellow

Yes It looks like a lucky shot, plus this chopper is big and heavy, a moving target. Although it sounds like a missile shot I don't think it was a missile, because if it was there would be more helicopters shot down and that would be worrysome. But damn they must have been at low altitude, a RPG does not have range, max 1,000 yards, RPG's are designed to shoot tanks, not aircrafts.
The commandos killed belonged to the Seal Team 6, but none of them were part of the unit who killed OBL.
It was a very bad day, beside the human side, these guys were elite soldiers, difficult to replace, very expensive to train.

shafique wrote:Is the news of the Taliban killing 30 Navy Seals, 7 Afghan commandos and an interpreter a sign of things to come?

The death toll is greater than the Somalia 'Black Hawk Down' casualties suffered by the US - and a major propaganda coup for the Taliban.

The interesting thing is that the news of this military strike is being used by both sides in the US - those calling for troops to be brought home quickly and those who say they it should be delayed.

The casualty figures have increased slightly - but the propaganda benefit is clearly with the Taliban. I still come back to the often asked question - what has been achieved, and was it worth it?

Cheers,
Shafique

Oh my God! It was only one episode amd only one helicopter but someone blows it out of proportion: revenge, propaganda... It's the war, not a PSP game, even for Americans.

The problem of US is that they haven't created a viable alternative to their presence. The corrupted Afghan goverment cannot keep power long after withdrawal of the occupational forces.

herve wrote:Yes It looks like a lucky shot, plus this chopper is big and heavy, a moving target. Although it sounds like a missile shot I don't think it was a missile, because if it was there would be more helicopters shot down and that would be worrysome. But damn they must have been at low altitude, a RPG does not have range, max 1,000 yards, RPG's are designed to shoot tanks, not aircrafts.
The commandos killed belonged to the Seal Team 6, but none of them were part of the unit who killed OBL.
It was a very bad day, beside the human side, these guys were elite soldiers, difficult to replace, very expensive to train.

They were a team that was part of the unit that killed OBL, they assisted in that mission and were the main force in hunting down OBL.

Two dozen members of the US Navy’s SEAL Team Six carried out the helicopter assault on a fortified compound deep inside Pakistan and one of their number shot Osama bin Laden in the head, killing him instantly.

^As I said, a major propaganda coup for the Taliban.

I personally think it was more by luck than design (and statistically speaking, every now and then an RPG will hit the target).

DDS - the Rambo III clip is priceless. Back in the day when the Mujahedeen were the good guys! (And they saved the day at the end of that movie.)

Cheers,
Shafique

Yeah, funny how tables have turned. The Americans are this time the invaders and Afghanis are the bad guys. Do you think there will a Russian version of Rambo this time round ?

Bora Bora wrote: They were a team that was part of the unit that killed OBL, they assisted in that mission and were the main force in hunting down OBL.

Two dozen members of the US Navy’s SEAL Team Six carried out the helicopter assault on a fortified compound deep inside Pakistan and one of their number shot Osama bin Laden in the head, killing him instantly.

So when did you become an expert in special ops bora?
First, Seal team 6 is a left over nick name, Seal team 6 was disbanded in 1987, reformed and renamed. The actual name is DEVGRU with at least 250 men, so they would not fit all in a chinook helicopter.
It might have sound "romantic" to you that the ones who killed OBL died in the crash, but although the 15 seals who died in the crash belonged to DEVGRU, they were not part of the platoon who killed OBL, for many reasons....one of them being that these platoons are highly specialised, some in rescue ops (the ones who died) some in hunt and kill ops (those who killed OBL), so go back to Oprah.

herve wrote:

Bora Bora wrote: They were a team that was part of the unit that killed OBL, they assisted in that mission and were the main force in hunting down OBL.

Two dozen members of the US Navy’s SEAL Team Six carried out the helicopter assault on a fortified compound deep inside Pakistan and one of their number shot Osama bin Laden in the head, killing him instantly.

So when did you become an expert in special ops bora?
First, Seal team 6 is a left over nick name, Seal team 6 was disbanded in 1987, reformed and renamed. The actual name is DEVGRU with at least 250 men, so they would not fit all in a chinook helicopter.
It might have sound "romantic" to you that the ones who killed OBL died in the crash, but although the 15 seals who died in the crash belonged to DEVGRU, they were not part of the platoon who killed OBL, for many reasons....one of them being that these platoons are highly specialised, some in rescue ops (the ones who died) some in hunt and kill ops (those who killed OBL), so go back to Oprah.

Obviously your reading is as bad as your writing. I never said they killed OBL. I said they were part of the operation that took down OBL. Are you also a consultant for the US MILITARY?? Were you there in Pakistan? Were you fully aware of how the mission would be carried out and who would be doing what? Since the tragedy there is alot of info out there - try google. Seal Team 6 was the elite of the elite, a level you could never achieve. So go back to reading your 007 books or work on your on-line book writing course.

BTW, I have a friend who knew you Herve, read your book, and cleared up a few "facts" about you and your book. He didn't paint a pretty picture of you Herve. I know, I know, he's lying, but the fact is he's not a local and has absolutely no reason or no gain to lie about you. Of course you tell the truth, nothing but the truth. Clearly you can't distinguish between your fantasy and actual truth.

Bora, you obviously have a very unfulfilled and boring life to be that disgruntled. in French your species are called the "mal baisee"
Your friend should have gone to DW, they would have paid him a lot of money for that info. Why did not he?, probably because he full of it. You keep ignoring a fact here, that my story is not just a book, it went to a federal court, for 18 months !!!!!!!!! I was put under a microscope and my accounts were authentificated, beside some dates and name changes for obvious reasons, DW and its army of 25 lawyers investigated everywhere, tried everything to prove me wrong, and in the end, at the last dy in court, when i showed my service records, they were impressed and backed off.
I barely read the news regarding the seal helicopter crash, because the press knows nothing about it , and i seriously doubt there is any thruth in those reports anyways.
I know how it works, the mechanics, what makes sense and what does not. so go back to Oprah and your constant nagging.

Herve, I don't have any regrets or bitter memories to dwell on, unlike you who is consumed with having been "wronged". Life can always be better Herve, but I'm quite content with mine where it is at this time. I would tend to think that the only direction your empty life can go is up, if you get lucky that is. If anyone has a boring life it's you!! You keep repeating yourself over, and over, and over. Still unemployed Herve? or are you weighing all those job offers that are flooding in while writing your next blockbuster??

Are you saying that DW had 25 lawyers who backed off because of your service record??? Why didn't you just pull it out on the outset of the trial? Why didn't you pull it out and shove it under Sultan's nose if it has so much punch behind it??

You changed more than dates and names Herve. There were some small but obvious inaccuracies. Then there was that one big lie about the "tape" recording, which you claimed to be an original in the book only to have to back down and admit that it was a "re-enactment" you created with two Yemeni men. Naughty, naughty Herve.

Excerpts from http://www.thenational.ae/news/worldwid ... rida-court. Note the report came out of New York, not Dubai.

NEW YORK // A US federal jury in Florida has rejected claims by a former French intelligence officer that Dubai World abused the UAE's judicial process to extort money from him.

After a two-week trial in Fort Pierce, Florida, the jury rejected Mr Jaubert's claims on Monday.

George Dalton, the general counsel for Dubai World, said the rest of Mr Jaubert's lawsuit, which included allegations of fraud, false imprisonment and defamation, was thrown out by Judge Jose Martinez just before the start of the trial.

Judge Martinez also ruled that Mr Jaubert breached a contract to sell the Emirati conglomerate two submersibles in 2004. He awarded US$338,150 (Dh1.24 million) in damages as part of that judgment. However, the jury rejected Dubai World's counterclaims of fraud, embezzlement and theft by Mr Jaubert.

"I am extremely pleased with the result," Mr Dalton said after the verdict. "The court awarded us damages in excess of $330,000 while the judge and jury threw out all Jaubert's fabricated claims and awarded zero damages to him. It was a solid win."

"This decision totally vindicates Dubai World and the Dubai Police and prosecutors of the baseless claims made by Jaubert," Mr Dalton said. "These decisions by judge and jury have finally ended Jaubert's two-year effort to extort millions from Dubai World with threats of negative publicity.

In cross-examination Mr Jaubert admitted that he created the recording, which he called a "re-enactment" at a Chinese restaurant in Florida, with two Yemeni men playing the roles of the interrogators.

Can say it was much of a win when some of your claims were thrown out before the trial and you were found in breach of contract and Dubai World being awarded damages that you have to pay. I don't know about you, but in my world the loser pays the winner.

As for the Seals Team 6, right, the press knows nothing about it, you don't read about it, but you know everything about it.

Have to run now. Don't want to miss The Daily Show with Jon Stewart. That's where I get all my info on current events.

I wish I could afford to be unemployed for what? 4 years?

gertrude wrote:I wish I could afford to be unemployed for what? 4 years?

Its doable Gertrude when you have a stash of money somewhere or a spouse who works. Or you can always write a blockbuster best seller and live off of that!

Hpw did we get from the Taliban to Herve's book?
I have to say I enjoyed Herve's book and look forward to the next one. If we are wronged in life we are allowed to be bitter.
It wasn't Herve that was found to be in breach of contract, Bora, but Seahorse Submarines, a company that was disolved some years previously. I think it tells a tale that the Court found against a company that hasn't existed for years.

This is not the topic of this thread but I have to respond to that piece of old and bitter lady that is Bora who keeps bringing false statements to smear my name.
She is intellectually corrupt for quoting a UAE news paper, totally under the control of Dubai Censure, I established before and i have the proof that DW directly dictated news articles.
The reference here IS the court records. http://dubaiworldlawsuit.com/files/final_order.pdf
The court found in my favor, DW was found wrong, period, and I have nothing to pay, DW will not get a dime, because they sued a company that did not exist, in a attempt to associate me and to spin the facts as if I lost a judgement.
I lost my claim for abuse of process because I was not given enough time to prove my case, being bombarded of hundreds of accusations for which I had to prove them wrong
The recording was absolutely authentic, I made a re enactment for the movie purpose.
Bora, go back to your boring life, and stay there.
Seal team 6, does not exist , it is called DEVGRU

Bora Bora wrote:Obviously your reading is as bad as your writing.
...

BTW, I have a friend who knew you Herve, read your book, and cleared up a few "facts" about you and your book. He didn't paint a pretty picture of you Herve. I know, I know, he's lying, but the fact is he's not a local and has absolutely no reason or no gain to lie about you. Of course you tell the truth, nothing but the truth. Clearly you can't distinguish between your fantasy and actual truth.

Ouch!!

Facts vs Loon. Loon loses, again.

Cheers,
Shafique

Bethsmum wrote:Hpw did we get from the Taliban to Herve's book?
I have to say I enjoyed Herve's book and look forward to the next one. If we are wronged in life we are allowed to be bitter.
It wasn't Herve that was found to be in breach of contract, Bora, but Seahorse Submarines, a company that was disolved some years previously. I think it tells a tale that the Court found against a company that hasn't existed for years.

Who owned Seahorse Submarines??? which was dissolved around the time Herve joined DW? I don't recall from the book if DW was aware that he dissolved the company as I believe he did some "business" during his time with DW under Seahorse Submarines, which had to do with money. It would seem that DW made a claim against a company they thought to exist.

-- Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:31 am --

herve wrote:This is not the topic of this thread but I have to respond to that piece of old and bitter lady that is Bora who keeps bringing false statements to smear my name.
She is intellectually corrupt for quoting a UAE news paper, totally under the control of Dubai Censure, I established before and i have the proof that DW directly dictated news articles.
The reference here IS the court records. http://dubaiworldlawsuit.com/files/final_order.pdf
The court found in my favor, DW was found wrong, period, and I have nothing to pay, DW will not get a dime, because they sued a company that did not exist, in a attempt to associate me and to spin the facts as if I lost a judgement.
I lost my claim for abuse of process because I was not given enough time to prove my case, being bombarded of hundreds of accusations for which I had to prove them wrong
The recording was absolutely authentic, I made a re enactment for the movie purpose.
Bora, go back to your boring life, and stay there.
Seal team 6, does not exist , it is called DEVGRU

Sue me abruti, va.

Herve, you CLAIM there was a recording. No one has ever heard the original one - except you!!!! Not enough time to prove your case??? That's funny. I guess now you have all the time in the world to gather your facts, which I'm sure shall appear in your sequel.

You know nothing about me Herve, or so I would think, since I've never met you or talked to you about who I am and about my life, unless we have a mutual "friend". I don't have any issues that cause me to lose sleep or interrupt my daily life. Unlike you who chews on a bone day and night about how you were wronged. And also unlike you, I have a life. Maybe you should leave your yellow submarine once in a while and get out into the real world.