Terrorism In EU - 2010 Figures Are In

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Terrorism in EU - 2010 figures are in Jul 29, 2011
Oh dear, herve is not going to be happy.

According to the official statistics, in 2010 there was only 1, yes ONE, terrorist act in the EU committed by 'Islamists'. 293 other terrorist acts occured, of which 237 were carried out by European separatists.



Stephen Walt has a good (short) write up on the report and why it is important to review these facts - from earlier this year:
Ever since 9/11, Islamophobia has been a recurrent problem in a number of Western societies, including the United States. It's been fueled by opportunistic politicians, hate-mongering bloggers, and any number of the other usual suspects. The lingering fear of Islam undergirds the present concerns that the turmoil in Egypt might give groups like the Muslim Brotherhood greater political influence there.

Trying to inject reason and evidence into this sort of debate is usually futile, but I do wish to report some good news. Remember the avalanche of Muslim-based terrorism that was about to descend upon the West? Well, according to the EU's 2010 Terrorism Situation and Trend Report, the total number of terrorist incidents in Europe declined in 2009. Even more important, the overwhelming majority of these incidents had nothing whatsoever to do with Islam.

The report is produced by Europol, which is the criminal intelligence agency of the European Union. In 2009, there were fewer than 300 terrorist incidents in Europe, a 33 percent decline from the previous year. The vast majority of these incidents (237 out of 294) were conducted by indigenous European separatist groups, with another forty or so attributed to leftists and/or anarchists. According to the report, a grand total of one (1) attack was conducted by Islamists. Put differently, Islamist groups were responsible for a whopping 0.34 percent of all terrorist incidents in Europe in 2009. In addition, the report notes, "the number of arrests relating to Islamist terrorism (110) decreased by 41 percent compared to 2008, which continues the trend of a steady decrease since 2006."

I know there are lot of people getting rich fueling Islamophobia, but we'd really all be better off if they would focus their attention to anarchists, or maybe separatist groups like ETA. The report isn't naive or Panglossian about Islamic radicalism, and it emphasizes that there are still extremist groups with worrisome ambitions. But their sifting of the data does put the actual danger in perspective and serves as a valuable corrective to the careless threat inflation that has become all too common over the past decade.

http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/201 ... mic_terror


So - I hope that's clear. Just like the author above, I say that there are indeed extremist Muslim groups that need to be tackled and monitored, but the actual danger should be put into perspective.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique
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Re: Terrorism in EU - 2010 figures are in Jul 29, 2011
Great, thank you Shaf......now we know that muslims are the best loving, trusting , and open mind people in the world.
We should all love them and give them more money, give them our schools so they can worship their god, and give them police protection against the islamophobes.
And we should adapt our laws so we dont offend them we our bad habits.
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Re: Terrorism In EU - 2010 Figures Are In Jul 29, 2011
You're most welcome - happy to help. :D

(You did read my last paragraph, didn't you?)

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Shafique
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Re: Terrorism in EU - 2010 figures are in Jul 29, 2011
shafique wrote:Oh dear, herve is not going to be happy.

According to the official statistics, in 2010 there was only 1, yes ONE, terrorist act in the EU committed by 'Islamists'. 293 other terrorist acts occured, of which 237 were carried out by European separatists.


In contrast, In Russia separatists are predominately Muslim. Only two recent attacks of kind people in Moscow subway 23.03.2010 and internatioanal airport 24.01.2011 killed 73 and injured 238.
Red Chief
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Re: Terrorism in EU - 2010 figures are in Jul 29, 2011
The report mentions 0 right wing attacks for 2010 (thats 0% of specified terrorist attacks).

If somebody claims there is a right wing terrorist threat, well that would be "fueled by opportunistic politicians, hate-mongering bloggers, and any number of the other usual suspects".
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Re: Terrorism in EU - 2010 figures are in Jul 30, 2011
Red Chief wrote:In contrast, In Russia separatists are predominately Muslim. Only two recent attacks of kind people in Moscow subway 23.03.2010 and internatioanal airport 24.01.2011 killed 73 and injured 238.


Ah, but RC - they are still separatists. In the UK the separatists who planted 99 viable bombs were all Christian (not predominantly, but ALL).

In Russia, it does make sense to say that the main threat is from Chechen etc separatists - but you can't use what is applicable in Russia and apply it to the EU without first checking the facts. Chechens aren't going to start bombing Luxembourg to demand that the government there let them have their own land, are they?

Ditto for Iraq and Afghanistan.

Note, I'm NOT saying let us ignore the extremist Muslims in the EU - just keep the risk in perspective. In Russia, the separatists are separatists and after a political separation - just like the Irish separatists and the Basque separatists.

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Shafique
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Re: Terrorism in EU - 2010 figures are in Jul 30, 2011
The chechen separatists are mooslims, just like al shafique, they worship the same book.
They are not christians, and they do not recite "Our Lord" when they blow themselves up
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Re: Terrorism in EU - 2010 figures are in Jul 30, 2011
^See, I knew hervey boy wouldn't be happy. He's resorting to stating obvious, irrelevant facts.

The pope is catholic. Irish separatists are Christian. Chechen Seperatists are Muslim.

See, anyone can play that game.

However, the stats still show in 2010, only 0.34% of terrorist acts in the EU were carried out by Muslims.

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: Terrorism in EU - 2010 figures are in Jul 30, 2011
shafique wrote:^See, I knew hervey boy wouldn't be happy. He's resorting to stating obvious, irrelevant facts.

The pope is catholic. Irish separatists are Christian. Chechen Seperatists are Muslim.

See, anyone can play that game.

However, the stats still show in 2010, only 0.34% of terrorist acts in the EU were carried out by Muslims.

Cheers,
Shafique

Agreed. The pope is catholic. Irish separatists are Christian. Chechen Seperatists are Muslim but
90% people, who killed in terrorist attacks in Russia, were commited by Muslims.

It's your style of conclusion. When it comes to Muslim you offer to look only at stat (lie, damn lie and statistics). Follow your twisted logic Irish and Basques freedom fighters are not going to commit terrorist acts in Luxembourg to demand that the government there let them have their own land, aren't they. So I agree that separatist movements have nothing in common with religion of their members. So your constant chewing their contribution to stat is absolutely irrelevant.
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Re: Terrorism In EU - 2010 Figures Are In Jul 30, 2011
Yes, RC - I also agree that in Russia the stats will show that terrorist attacks THERE are indeed largely carried out by Muslim (whether separatists or otherwise).

However, this is not a situation that is replicated in the USA or EU. That's what the statistics show, but unfortunately some loony websites try to confuse the gullible by exaggerating the threat from 'Islamists' 'Jihadists' etc - when the reality is that the threat they pose in the USA and EU is relatively smaller than that posed from non-Muslim terrorists. (Note - this is not to say there is NO threat - there is, and it should be tackled).

Europol stats and FBI stats show this clearly. (No lies, no twisting, no exaggeration, no selection - terrorist acts committed in the USA and EU are more than 90% committed by non-Muslim terrorists).

Russian, Iraqi, Afghanistani, Pakistani etc show different patterns - I totally agree.

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Shafique
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Re: Terrorism In EU - 2010 Figures Are In Jul 30, 2011
shafique wrote:
Russian, Iraqi, Afghanistani, Pakistani etc show different patterns - I totally agree.

Inspite of this difference, Russian government are not going to close border for people from Central Asia, who are formally Muslim.

In my view, you use words "Christian" and "non-Muslim" too easy and based on that make a conclusion.
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Re: Terrorism In EU - 2010 Figures Are In Jul 30, 2011
To be fair RC, European governments aren't closing the borders on all Muslims either.

The point here is that whilst in Russia there may be some statistical grounds to be more cautious about Terrorism from separatists who happen to be Muslim - the same can't be said for the EU - or in this case the USA.

I use the words Muslim and Christian to describe the religion the person follows - Islam or Christianity. I use 'Islamist' or 'Jihadist' to denote a Muslim terrorist using religion as motivation for violence (rather than a political goal). So I do try to be precise.

In this thread - we are talking about terrorist acts committed in the EU.

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: Terrorism In EU - 2010 Figures Are In Jul 30, 2011
shafique wrote:To be fair RC, European governments aren't closing the borders on all Muslims either.

The point here is that whilst in Russia there may be some statistical grounds to be more cautious about Terrorism from separatists who happen to be Muslim - the same can't be said for the EU - or in this case the USA.

I use the words Muslim and Christian to describe the religion the person follows - Islam or Christianity. I use 'Islamist' or 'Jihadist' to denote a Muslim terrorist using religion as motivation for violence (rather than a political goal). So I do try to be precise.

In this thread - we are talking about terrorist acts committed in the EU.

Cheers,
Shafique

Sorry, Sir Shafique, I recall that the real meanings of your terms are very different from how they sound. So Christian terrorist is a terrorist who happened to be Christian but who doesn't use Christianity as motivation for violance. Right?
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Re: Terrorism In EU - 2010 Figures Are In Jul 30, 2011
Yes, a Christian Terrorist is a terrorist who's religion is Christianity. The same applies to the term Muslim Terrorist and Jewish Terrorist.

A 'Jihadist' or 'Islamist' is a Muslim terrorist who is using religion as motivation for their terrorism, or using it to justify the crime of murdering civilians. A pro-Lifer, for example, who blows up a doctor because of their Christian religious opposition of abortion would be the equivalent of a Jihadist.

Baruch Goldstein was an American born doctor and a religously motivated Jewish terrorist.

The terrorists that blew up Air India 182 in the 80s happened to be Sikh Terrorists - but not religiously motivated ones, but rather separatists whose religion/ethnicity was Sikh.

If you read what I wrote - I was clear that my distinction with the stats is between Muslim Terrorists and non-Muslim terrorists (not specifically terrorists motivated by other religions).

Hope that is clear - I do try to be precise when I use the terms. If I have lapsed in one or two posts, let me know and I'll clarify.

(There are, for example, Arab suicide bombers who happen to be Christian - IIRC the first woman suicide bomber was a Lebanese Christian and attacked the Israeli Military and killed only soldiers. I denounce suicide as something I'm morally against, but when it is used against legitimate military targets - in this case an occupying military force - it is not terrorism, but a suicide attack. )

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: Terrorism In EU - 2010 Figures Are In Jul 30, 2011
Excuse me. Only one more question, that does not related to the EU but important for understanding your terms as you have special term for religiously motivated Muslim terrorist but don't have the same for Christian one for own reason.

Who is Mr. Anders Brevik, who committed terrorist attacks against goverment party and its youth organization? I would be very surprized if any Muslim was a victim as well as the Norway's Muslim community comprized of only 2% of total population of the country.

Anyway emphasizing religion belieth of a terrorist, if he is not religiously motivated, sounds a little tricky for me.
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Re: Terrorism In EU - 2010 Figures Are In Jul 30, 2011
I don't have a term for the religiously motivated terrorism of Baruch Goldstein (killed in name of Judaism) or the religiously motivated Christian terrorists who kill in name of Christianity. I refrain from terms such as 'Crusaders' etc.

'Jihadist' and 'Islamist' are terms that I tend to use in ' ' - and even when the Policeman in Norway called Brievik a Christian Fundamentalist, you'll notice that I put the term in quotes - i.e. I said 'Christian Fundamentalist' Terrorist.

Red Chief wrote: I would be very surprized if any Muslim was a victim as well as the Norway's Muslim community comprized of only 2% of total population of the country.


Well, if you had done any research you would have found that the first victim buried was an 18 year old Muslim girl - an immigrant from Iraq. :roll:

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: Terrorism In EU - 2010 Figures Are In Jul 30, 2011
shafique wrote:'Jihadist' and 'Islamist' are terms that I tend to use in ' ' - and even when the Policeman in Norway called Brievik a Christian Fundamentalist, you'll notice that I put the term in quotes - i.e. I said 'Christian Fundamentalist' Terrorist.

Well well. So brave Englishman (without humour) hides behind somebody. 8) 8) 8)

What is your term without quotation marks?
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Re: Terrorism in EU - 2010 figures are in Jul 30, 2011
The only religious motivated terrorism the report is mentioning is Islamist terrorism. The report does specify:

In the past year, several EU Member States have successfully prevented attacks by Islamist terrorist groups, which aimed to cause mass casualties


There is nothing 'Islamopohoboc' about it.

Some more interesting observations:

Although the goals of terrorist and organised crime groups (OCGs) are different, an issue which is of growing concern to EU law enforcement are the connections between terrorist and organised crime groups’ activities.


Terrorist organizations do more closely cooperate with organized crime. there are some extensive overlapses. Islamist terrorist groups do finance their activities through drugs trade amonst others:

Low level, individual and tribal contacts between OCGs active in drugs trafficking in West Africa, and ‘sub groups’ of Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM), raises the possibility that drugs trafficking to the EU could become a source of funding for some terrorist groups operating in the Sahel region.


Seperatists demand more maffia like "protection money". A lot of seperatist terrorist activities in the report are executed for collected protection money.

And:

If the unrest in the Arab world, especially in North Africa, leads to a major influx of immigrants into Europe, right-wing extremism and terrorism might gain a new lease of life by articulating more widespread
public apprehension about immigration from Muslim countries into Europe.
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Re: Terrorism in EU - 2010 figures are in Jul 30, 2011
I'm glad shafique is now siding with Robert Spencer's position in differentiating those who happen to be of a religion with terrorists who carry out attacks in the name of religion.

It seems shafique has managed to drastically change his stance from a few years ago where he wanted to compare those who carry out attacks in the name of religion with those who happened to have a religion.

It would have been somewhat of a ridiculous comparison. No doubt, following his own line of logic, he would have eventually compared shoe size to people who justify bombings in the name of religion to show that more terrorists have size 7 and above than are religiously motivated Muslim terrorists.
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Re: Terrorism in EU - 2010 figures are in Jul 30, 2011
The term Christian terrorist in Shafique's mouth reminds me following stat:

98% of dead man from cancer had eaten pickles at least once in their lives.
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Re: Terrorism In EU - 2010 Figures Are In Jul 31, 2011
^Can't argue with that statistic... but I'd stop short of saying pickles cause Cancer.

Just like the fact that over 95% of terrorist attacks (real ones) in the EU were caused my non-Muslims doesn't necessarily mean that their non-Muslim faith (or lack of faith) caused them to launch their terrorist attacks.

I'm glad we're making progress. (But I do hope you'll go back and check where and when I mentioned Chrisitian Terrorists and when I just mentioned non-Muslim terrorists (they are not the same). ;)

Cheers,
Shafique
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