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shafique · Jul 28, 2011

shafique wrote:^eh, you asked where you agreed to list the political views you disagreed with. Strange - it was only a few days ago in the thread you started:

shafique wrote:But amuse me, which of his political views do you NOT agree with? (I'm hoping you'll join me in denouncing his racist, islamophobic manifesto - shocking stuff):

event horizon wrote:I'll have to read the reader's digest of his manifesto to get back to you.

shafique wrote:I'll hold you to that. Alternatively, you can comment on what the terrorist says tomorrow to justify his crimes.

Still waiting patiently for the young right-wing Christian to tell us where he differs politically from this terrorist.

Once he finishes the list, I'll let him know which political views of the elected government in Gaza I agree with and which I disagree with (and I'll be happy to say what I disagree with).

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Jul 28, 2011

Directly quote from Anders' manifesto and I'll be happy to tell you which of his views I agree with.

The Islamic terrorist group, Hamas, recognized as such by 'your' very own country, also has such a manifesto. It should be interesting to see which of their paranoid world views you find yourself in agreement with. Since you've already carried water for a Muslim anti-Semite in the past who promoted similar anti-Semitic myths on Jews/Judaism as Hamas, I should already know what you won't disagree with.

shafique · Jul 28, 2011

Firstly, let's see how the Economist sums up the Terrorist's ideology:

Mr Breivik's manifesto—“2083. A European Declaration of Independence”—also provides some insight into his motivations. His ideology appears to be a form of reactionary Christian fundamentalism, fuelled by hatred of Islam, Marxism and non-whites.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/newsbook ... ay-attacks

Let's take one issue at a time.

In a diary entry from 11 June :

I prayed for the first time in a very long time today. I explained to God that unless he wanted the Marxist-Islamic alliance and the certain Islamic takeover of Europe to completely annihilate European Christendom within the next hundred years he must ensure that the warriors fighting for the preservation of European Christendom prevail. He must ensure that I succeed with my mission and as such; contribute to inspire thousands of other revolutionary conservatives/nationalists; anti-Communists and anti-Islamists throughout the European world.

Do you agree that there is a threat of an Islamic takeover of Europe in the next 100 years?

Cheers,
Shafique

Bora Bora · Jul 28, 2011

shafique wrote:Do you agree that there is a threat of an Islamic takeover of Europe in the next 100 years?

Cheers,
Shafique

No Shaf, I don't agree, but there are many who do hope for it.

shafique · Jul 28, 2011

^and there are some that imagine there are many who wish this.

(And I'm glad you don't share this belief)

However, this is about eh requesting I set up a thread on the subject (a bit odd, given he initially is the one who said he'd get back to me..)

So - does eh share this believe of the Norwegian Terrorist??

Cheers,
Shafique

Bora Bora · Jul 28, 2011

shafique wrote:^and there are some that imagine there are many who wish this. (And I'm glad you don't share this belief)

However, this is about eh requesting I set up a thread on the subject (a bit odd, given he initially is the one who said he'd get back to me..)

So - does eh share this believe of the Norwegian Terrorist??

Cheers,
Shafique

Hope/wish, the same thing. I do believe some do both and then you have those who act on their hope and wishes.

Chocoholic · Jul 28, 2011

Of course there's a threat of Islamic takeover. Already we have nutters in 3 parts of the UK wanting to implement Sharia law and be independent from UK law - HELLO - if you can't live by the way of the land, naff off! Many people are ticked off with this kind of thing, so you will get many sympathizers with the Norwegian and his political beliefs.

Mahmoud04 · Jul 28, 2011

in terms of policitcs, they all lie to you .. that is why I don't like (but we do anyway) to mix between religions and politics.
In Egypt these days there is long long discussions talking about this religion and politics, and how they can reflect to each other.

shafique · Jul 28, 2011

Interesting comments.

Bora doesn't agree, but Chocs think there is a threat of an Islamic take over. (I'm with Bora on this one)

So, where does eh believe? This thread was for him, after all. After he answers this first one, we'll go to the other political beliefs.

Cheers,
Shafique

Red Chief · Jul 28, 2011

shafique wrote:This thread was for him, after all. After he answers this first one, we'll go to the other political beliefs.

Why would not you send PM to him if it's personal question? Or show must go on?

Bora Bora · Jul 28, 2011

Chocoholic wrote:Of course there's a threat of Islamic takeover. Already we have nutters in 3 parts of the UK wanting to implement Sharia law and be independent from UK law - HELLO - if you can't live by the way of the land, naff off! Many people are ticked off with this kind of thing, so you will get many sympathizers with the Norwegian and his political beliefs.

A threat is one thing Chocs. This threat is based on wishful thinking. Even if the bred like rabbits it won't happen. The same thing is happening in the US with some who want Sharia Law implemented inthe Courts of Law. It ain't going to happen. When push comes to shove, they will be shoved right back to the Middle East. Laws can be changed to protect countries and the rights of the countries based on the founding fathers.

shafique · Jul 28, 2011

I agree Bora - I've pretty much the same thought process about the liklihood of a Muslim invasion or takeover in the next century. Scaremongering is an integral part of Islamophobia, in my view.

But that said, I wonder why the young one is being so silent.. I'm itching to get on to the next political view.

Cheers,
Shafique

Bora Bora · Jul 28, 2011

[quote="shafique"]Scaremongering is an integral part of Islamophobia, in my view.

What do you call it when Muslims think that they will rule the world one day (and there are plenty out there that think that)?? Wishful thinkers?

Not everyone who makes statements that are not favorable to Muslims suffers from Islamophobia.

event horizon · Jul 28, 2011

Do you agree that there is a threat of an Islamic takeover of Europe in the next 100 years?

Don't know - do European Muslims totally reject the replacement of European law with laws not compatible with (nor derived from) Europe's secular humanist based legal system?

Are there Muslims - lay and religious leaders alike - who want blasphemy laws in Europe established?

Are immigrants of the Muslim faith pushing Europe to be compatible with Islam more than immigrants of Hindu or Sikh persuasions are (for comparison's sake)?

If it's 'Yes, No and No', then I'd say Anders' worries are groundless.

shafique · Jul 28, 2011

^eh - great, we've found one point where you and I can agree - the terrorist's fears of an Islamic takeover are indeed groundless. Great to start off on a point of agreement.

Bora Bora wrote:What do you call it when Muslims think that they will rule the world one day (and there are plenty out there that think that)?? Wishful thinkers?

I do indeed call that wishful thinking. I know of Christians who are adamant that after the second coming they will rule the world (and Jesus will go on a rampage and kill all who don't submit to his message etc, whilst the true believers will be spirited away in the 'Rapture) - I know of Jews who similarly think that when the Messiah comes he will defeat the opponents of Judaism and hand them power over the world.

But, in terms of Muslims agreeing with the Terrorist's view (and disagreeing with eh, you and me) - do you think this is view is shared by a good proportion, minority or majority of Muslims in Europe/the world? Most/All Muslims I know would not think Muslims would take over Europe in 100 years - although they'd probably agree that the conversion rates will continue to grow and the proportions will increase.

Bora Bora wrote:Not everyone who makes statements that are not favorable to Muslims suffers from Islamophobia.

Never said they were. Loons/Islamophobes are well defined and distinct from critics of Islam/Muslim.

So, eh - care to pick the next political view of the Terrorist you'd like to discuss? Or shall do it?

Something about his hatred of multi-culturalism or marxism, perhaps?

Cheers,
Shafique

Bora Bora · Jul 28, 2011

I think there is a growing number of Muslims in the West (US and UK) that are falling away from having an intense belief in Islam, and therefore may really not have an opinion. I also think that there are those Muslims who believe that Islam is out of touch with the times and isn't suitable for the 21st Century and may very well be converting to Christianity, as the number of converts to Christianity (people from other faiths) has been growing over the years.

I found this link very interesting, including the links within that have been blocked in the UAE.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/muslims-le ... in-droves/

shafique · Jul 30, 2011

Ok, next question for young event horizon.

Does he think that Islam is intrinsically evil. This seems to be the root of the Terrorist's Islamophobia, and one that he apparently shares with extremist hate-preachers such as Pamella Geller (I'm killing 2 birds with one stone here - quoting what Goldberg concludes about Geller, rather than start yet another thread on this idol of eh):

Pamela Geller’s Followers Go Nuts (Or Are Nuts, or Something)
Jeffrey Goldberg

Please, nutty people, leave my e-mail inbox alone! I’ve been flooded with mail from defenders of Pamela Geller, the shrieking bigot who thinks all Muslims are evil, that Muslims live under her bed, that Muslims short-sheeted her bed at summer camp, and so on. Here is one such letter:

Pamela Geller is right, you want to see America and Israel destroyed. Why do you love Muslims so much? Are you a secret Muslim?

You got me! I am a secret Muslim. Well, not a secret one anymore. I’m actually known in Occupied Palestine as Abu Tsuris. I was a summer intern with Hamas (in the press office) and I’m hoping to get my M.A. in Shari’a from al-Azhar University, where I also play for the lacrosse team.

It is amazing to me how Geller’s followers think of Islam the way they believe Islam thinks of Christianity and Judaism. For the record: I’m a proud Jew, not observant enough, but trying, and I also admire many aspects of Islam. I don’t believe this to be a contradiction. I love Islamic art and architecture and poetry, and I appreciate the manner in which Islam provides meaning and solace to its followers. I appreciate Islam’s firm stand against idolatry, and I also find comfort in Islam’s stunning diversity. Included in this diversity, of course, are streams of Islam I find disagreeable, and one or two I find repugnant. But Islam, like Judaism, and like Christianity, is a universe. It is not a monolith, as Pamela Geller and her ilk would have you believe. Some of the best people I know are Muslim, and some of the worst are Muslim. The same holds true for Judaism.

Pamela Geller is a terrible bigot because she believes that Islam is an intrinsically evil system, and that everyone who adheres to this system is intrinsically evil..

http://m.theatlantic.com/international/ ... ng/242688/

The Terrorist's manifesto quotes Spencer and Geller and it is clear to me he shares their bigotry and Islamophobia.

But the question for event horizon is whether HE thinks Islam is intrisically evil and Muslims who follow it are intrinsically evil. (Please, no protestations that Geller loves Muslims etc - just answer the question. If you believe Geller doesn't adhere to these views - then you can easily answer 'No, I don't believe Islam is intrinsically evil...' - if not, just say 'Yes, I do agree with the terrorist and Geller on this point..')

Cheers,
Shafique

herve · Jul 30, 2011

With this kind of logic , al shafique (who supports HAMAS) is saying that if you think islam is intrinsically evil, then you should be arrested and jail as pre emptive measure.

shafique · Jul 30, 2011

^Just because some loons who share your hatred of Islam resort to violence, does not necessarily mean we should also lock you up for sharing his views. I'm more in favour of letting you speak your hatred and laughing at how silly you look when you rant about 'cults' etc.

I'm impressed with your imagination, but disappointed at the vulgarity. But I guess hatred is rarely a pleasant sight to behold.

Cheers,
Shafique

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