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6% fully support the attacks and 12% in total (one in eight) partially or fully justified the attacks.

Shocking stuff:

Moreover, the proportion of YouGov's respondents who, while not condoning the Oslo and Utoya attacks, have some sympathy with the feelings and motives of the man who has confessed to carrying them out is considerably larger - 24 per cent.

A substantial majority, 56 per cent, say that, whether or not they sympathise with the attacker, they can at least understand why some people might want to behave in this way.

24% of Norwegians sympathize with the feelings and motives of Anders.

56% understand him.

http://tinyurl.com/3fafhho

I don't think it's shocking in the slightest. I completely understand his motives, although what he has done is just horrible, but I can understand why he did it and he's certainly not alone in his discontent, not by a long shot and as I said before, I don't think this is the last you'll see of this kind of thing.

I think you got you're links all mixed up
Wouldn't be the only thing.

It's troubling to think 1 in 8 Norwegians support his actions.

I certainly don't sympathize with his terrorist attacks or his extremist views - so, that's where I part ways with 56% and 24% of Norwegians.

I'm quite frankly shocked and deeply disturbed by the poll results. Hopefully the mainstream media picks this up so more people around the world shame Norwegians, since obviously Norwegians aren't doing the job of tackling extremism like they should (but probably are using this tragedy to make themselves the victims).

EH, as DDS said, you have your links mixed up. The link you posted was from 2005 and relates to 7/7, although the article should not be discounted as it is "proof" for Shaf that 6% of the British Muslims polled said that the bombings were justified. Add on to that the percentage of those internationally who agree. Now, they may not be dancing in the street, but obviously support Islamic terrorism and if they believe the bombings are justified they are just as bad as the terrorists.

If the headline is true, this just goes to show that my argument that Terrorist acts by Muslims (eg 7/7) are no different from Terrorist acts by non-Muslims.

Both are heinous crimes, and both can be done for underlying grievances that some/many may sympathise with, but yet will still disagree with (and condemn) the terrorism.

The 7/7 terrorist were ranting about the West killing Muslims in Muslim lands, the Norwegian terrorist about a Muslim invasion and erosion of European Christendom.

I did look back and see whether there were any reports of many Muslims revelling in the 7/7 attacks. There weren't. There were only a few 'jihadist' types with their rhetoric on a few outlets. The media was full of Muslims denouncing the attacks as crimes, immoral and unIslamic.

There were indeed pols later on to see whether the underlying grievances of the bombers were shared by the public, and they did show that they did share the grievances (relating to foreign policy). However, check the figures out for those who agreed that terrorism was right or who believed that Islam should take over the world - those show the real % of people who would 'revel' or celebrate the terrorist acts. You'll see that there is no evidence that this was widespread (or even significant) in the Muslim community - certainly not those conducted in Europe (which are robust).

Norwegians sympathise with motives, but denouce the terror attacks. Some Muslims sympathise with motives of 7/7 (foreign policy motives) and denounce the terror attacks.

There is a clear link between the two terrorists though - they share a common hatred of the 'other'. Both use religious imagery in there manifestos - but ultimately both are railing against a hatred of a different group. One is trying to protect European Christendom (as he says) and the other to protest against European Christendom in Muslim lands (as they said).

As bad as each other.

But we should not lose sight of the fact that in Europe, terrorist acts are carried out by non-Muslims much more than by Muslims. This latest atrocity adds to the list of terrorism carried out by non-Muslims. In Europe (and the US) the real threat from terrorists is from nutters like McVeigh, Joe Stack, Breivik - and a smaller, but not insignificant threat, from guys like the 7/7 terrorists, the shoe bomber, underpants bomber etc.

Cheers,
Shafique

That's quite a bit of spin you managed to post to cover up for the fact that 12% of British Muslims fully or partially supported the attacks targeting their own country and the the percentages of Muslims who sympathized with the hatred they shared with the bombers - who carried out their attacks in the name of Islam and as acts of piety and devotion to their religion (unlike Joe Stack, Tim McVeigh and even this guy) - is even higher.

Of course, the % of British Muslims who supported the 9/11 attacks and bombings in Israel is even greater than the 12% of British Muslims who supported the suicide bombings against 'their' country. We see the difference between true moderates and extremist populations masquerading as moderates clearly when we look at Norway and compare their response to the attack with Muslims in Britain.

And if you're talking about large scale terrorism, the threat is still from Muslim terrorists who carry out their actions in the name of their religion. Needless to bring up the absurdity in comparing nativist terrorism to largely recently arrived populations. Last I checked, I didn't hear any comparisons between Hindu and Sikh terrorism with the terrorism carried out by 'native' Europeans. Then again, no part of the world is immune from Muslim radicalism in which no other religion can come close to comparing.

No spin, just cutting through the crap.

Right wing nutter who shares your political views (we're still waiting for you to list which you disagree with) steps out and kills innocent civilians. Some rightwingers support his actions, many others sympathise with the underlying gripes.

How is that different from the polls taken after 7/7?

Media reports after 7/7 show that Muslims (lay and clerics alike) condeming the acts of terrorism. The supporters of terrorism were the usual nutters. Again, just like in Norway.

Cheers,
Shafique

Some rightwingers support his actions, many others sympathise with the underlying gripes.

Did 24% of Norwegians sympathize with his actions?

Did 12% support his action?

By all means, cut through the crap. Let's see the polls and I'll compare them to British Muslim polls any day.

And I'll compare the response in Norway to that of British Muslims. Which side is more willing to reflect and which will pull the race card after *others* begin probing too much.

Media reports after 7/7 show that Muslims (lay and clerics alike) condeming the acts of terrorism.

1 in 8 British Muslims supported the attacks. British clerics condemned them? Well, it's good PR. After hosting 9/11 anniversaries for several years straight, I figure even British Muslims know where to draw the line.

But a round of applause for condemning terrorism. That's proof of moderation after years of incitement (that still continues today) largely unchecked in numerous British mosques. Hoorah.

eh - it was pretty clear you were trying to be clever and were citing polls relating to 7/7 and which you are deliberately twisting.

(The yougov pol interviewed 526 Muslims and found 30 who said the bombings were justified. Those are the stats. 30 to me is indeed a handful, and there's no evidence that this representative of Muslims as a whole.)

My point is that there is no difference with this Norwegian Terror attack - 7/7 terrorist attacks were condemned by all and sundry in all the media reports I've seen. Some polls did show sympathy for the foreign policy gripes.

In this Norwegian terrorist attack, you right wingers have argued that there is some sympathy for his underlying political views.

Indeed, you haven't been able to state which political view you disagree with.


Facts and figures aren't going to change your Islamophobia - by definition it is an irrational hatred of Islam and Muslims.

The scary part is that there are indeed some more right-wingers out there who do support the terrorist act and may be encouraged to emulate it.

Cheers,
Shafique

Indeed, you haven't been able to state which political view you disagree with.

Just out of curiousity, but which political views of Hamas - a group recognized as a terrorist organization by 'your' country - do you disagree with?

(The yougov pol interviewed 526 Muslims and found 30 who said the bombings were justified. Those are the stats. 30 to me is indeed a handful, and there's no evidence that this representative of Muslims as a whole.)

Don't like that poll, quote another one.

24% of British Muslims polled shared the same hate as the bombers. Shocking stuff, I would have imagined.

But for someone who wants to cut the crap, you sho do seem dismissive of acknowledging extremism in Britain's Muslim community.

I guess calling a spade a spade is for chavs?

Bora Bora wrote:EH, as DDS said, you have your links mixed up. The link you posted was from 2005 and relates to 7/7, although the article should not be discounted as it is "proof" for Shaf that 6% of the British Muslims polled said that the bombings were justified. Add on to that the percentage of those internationally who agree. Now, they may not be dancing in the street, but obviously support Islamic terrorism and if they believe the bombings are justified they are just as bad as the terrorists.

You took the bait of the oh so innocently mixed up link. Woman, I'm am dissapointed in you !
You see troll here likes to play such games.

desertdudeshj wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:EH, as DDS said, you have your links mixed up. The link you posted was from 2005 and relates to 7/7, although the article should not be discounted as it is "proof" for Shaf that 6% of the British Muslims polled said that the bombings were justified. Add on to that the percentage of those internationally who agree. Now, they may not be dancing in the street, but obviously support Islamic terrorism and if they believe the bombings are justified they are just as bad as the terrorists.

You took the bait of the oh so innocently mixed up link. Woman, I'm am dissapointed in you !
You see troll here likes to play such games.

DDS, clearly you read the link. Maybe you missed Shaf's posts where he made the claim that he didn't read of any Muslims who favored the 7/7 bombings and EH provided it. Actually he referred to them as "nutters". Apparently he thinks the only proof one could provide is if one actually met someone who favored the bombings. So, it did serve a purpose other than baiting, if that indeed was EH's intent, nor do I see EH doing anything different from Shaf's baiting.

^Bora, my point still stands.

This YouGov poll does not say that the 30 respondents celebrated the bombings, but rather they answered yes to the question about whether the bombings were justified. Even if we don't discount the possibility some didn't understand the question, it is still only 30 people!

My main point is that the Norwegian Terrorist attack and how it is viewed by non-right-wing-terrorist-supporters is exactly the same as the 7/7 terrorist attack and how it is viewed by Muslims in general and public in general. No difference.

You seem to remember Muslims celebrating or condoning the bombings. I was there, I didn't meet or read of anyone celebrating - except for the usual extremist numpties.

Eh's baiting was transparent - but it also served a point that loons and stats rarely make a happy couple!

Cheers,
Shafique

Bora Bora wrote:So, it did serve a purpose other than baiting, if that indeed was EH's intent.

I seriously doubt it. Seeing past peformances its more of a case of what about-ery. I'm pretty sure you know what that means right. Oh look at that, that is much worse, lets talk about that instead, taking focus away from the issue at hand.

I'm sure there were a crop of idiots who celebrated the 7/7 attacks like Anjum Chaudary and his ilk and calling them nutters I think is being extremely polite, but thats not the issue at hand now, is it.