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Well, EH, you seem to think you are the most intelligent person on this forum. I wish you the best of luck in world domination. Make lots of babies!

MCL - interesting that you quoted eh's wiki links. It includes an unequivocable statement by the

American Association of Physical Anthropologists:

As scientists who study human evolution and variation, we believe that we have an obligation to share with other scientists and the general public our current understanding of the structure of human variation from a biological perspective. Popular conceptualizations of race are derived from 19th and early 20th century scientific formulations.
...
Although heredity influences the behavioral variability of individuals within a given population, it does not affect the ability of any such population to function in a given social setting.

The genetic capacity for intellectual development is one of the biological traits of our species essential for its survival. This genetic capacity is known to differ among individuals. The peoples of the world today appear to possess equal biological potential for assimilating any human culture. Racist political doctrines find no foundation in scientific knowledge concerning modern or past human populations.

http://www.physanth.org/association/pos ... ts-of-race
(My emphasis)

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:MCL - interesting that you quoted eh's wiki links. It includes an unequivocable statement by the

American Association of Physical Anthropologists:

As scientists who study human evolution and variation, we believe that we have an obligation to share with other scientists and the general public our current understanding of the structure of human variation from a biological perspective. Popular conceptualizations of race are derived from 19th and early 20th century scientific formulations.
...
Although heredity influences the behavioral variability of individuals within a given population, it does not affect the ability of any such population to function in a given social setting.

The genetic capacity for intellectual development is one of the biological traits of our species essential for its survival. This genetic capacity is known to differ among individuals. The peoples of the world today appear to possess equal biological potential for assimilating any human culture. Racist political doctrines find no foundation in scientific knowledge concerning modern or past human populations.

http://www.physanth.org/association/pos ... ts-of-race
(My emphasis)

Cheers,
Shafique

How do you explain that Jews, regardless of social / environment show the most advanced intellects of the human species.
Look at the ration on the nobel lists.
Look also what race is the less represented, so you will not have to call me names if i say it.

I'm not a member of American Association of Physical Anthropologists

Are you?

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:I'm not a member of American Association of Physical Anthropologists

Are you?

Cheers,
Shafique

no me neither but you are good in stats....anyways you always evade the question when it does not fit you, it bothers you that Jews have a superior intellect. simple.. just read the stats. This time it is not about irish bombing post offices.

There were no stats in the conclusion of these scientists:

The genetic capacity for intellectual development is one of the biological traits of our species essential for its survival. This genetic capacity is known to differ among individuals. The peoples of the world today appear to possess equal biological potential for assimilating any human culture. Racist political doctrines find no foundation in scientific knowledge concerning modern or past human populations.

Why would I question their conclusions? Why are you insisting they are wrong? Surely, they are the experts?

Cheers,
Shafique

Notice what shafique doesn't highlight or seem to notice from the quote he cherry-picked:

The genetic capacity for intellectual development is one of the biological traits of our species essential for its survival. This genetic capacity is known to differ among individuals. The peoples of the world today appear to possess equal biological potential for assimilating any human culture. Racist political doctrines find no foundation in scientific knowledge concerning modern or past human populations.

shafique wrote:Seems pretty clear to me, the anthropologists are saying that intelligence is influenced by heredity, pretty much contradicting shafique's earlier statements that intelligence is environmental.

There are also studies which show that culture and environment (rather than genes) affect performance on IQ tests (and arguably measure one form of intelligence).

But looking specifically at whether genetic differences between races explains differences in social development (or intelligence, per se) has shown that the drivers for differences are not genetics, but rather the environment.

Nope, the quote you desperately cling to even disputes that.

Another epic failure of comprehension (worth unhiding your comment, young one).

Genetic differences between individuals hasn't been disputed by anyone here - not least me. What has been disputed is the myth of racial/genetic explanations for cultural/technological differences.

However, good manners does dictate that I thank you for providing the link to this clear statement from experts.

The peoples of the world today appear to possess equal biological potential for assimilating any human culture. Racist political doctrines find no foundation in scientific knowledge concerning modern or past human populations.

You do understand what 'no foundation in scientific knowledge' means, don't you?

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:There were no stats in the conclusion of these scientists:
Why would I question their conclusions? Why are you insisting they are wrong? Surely, they are the experts?

Cheers,
Shafique

Because they dont explain why Jews are the most advanced intellects, no need to be an expert, just read who are on the noble prize lists , do you have an explanation ?

shafique wrote:MCL - interesting that you quoted eh's wiki links. It includes an unequivocable statement by the

American Association of Physical Anthropologists:

As scientists who study human evolution and variation, we believe that we have an obligation to share with other scientists and the general public our current understanding of the structure of human variation from a biological perspective. Popular conceptualizations of race are derived from 19th and early 20th century scientific formulations.
...
Although heredity influences the behavioral variability of individuals within a given population, it does not affect the ability of any such population to function in a given social setting.

The genetic capacity for intellectual development is one of the biological traits of our species essential for its survival. This genetic capacity is known to differ among individuals. The peoples of the world today appear to possess equal biological potential for assimilating any human culture. Racist political doctrines find no foundation in scientific knowledge concerning modern or past human populations.

http://www.physanth.org/association/pos ... ts-of-race
(My emphasis)

Cheers,
Shafique

My error Shafique, I quoted EH to merely to continue the conversation not in agreement with wikipedia. I have no part in any debate between intelligace and races. What I'm interested in, is some understanding of biological differences between humans of different races and it's impact on health conditions, illneses etc.
Intelligance? Inherently how can you respect of dispute one's intelligance because of his/her race? That's pointless. Educations and upbringing defines a man...although at times there are exceptions, I dnt think these exceptions are soo widespread that u can trophy or malign entire races altogether.

shafique wrote:Another epic failure of comprehension (worth unhiding your comment, young one).

Genetic differences between individuals hasn't been disputed by anyone here - not least me. What has been disputed is the myth of racial/genetic explanations for cultural/technological differences.

However, good manners does dictate that I thank you for providing the link to this clear statement from experts.

The peoples of the world today appear to possess equal biological potential for assimilating any human culture. Racist political doctrines find no foundation in scientific knowledge concerning modern or past human populations.

You do understand what 'no foundation in scientific knowledge' means, don't you?

Cheers,
Shafique

Strangely, you seem more interested in 'winning' an argument than exploring the evidence. For you, finding a PC statement from anthropologists gave you the reason to ignore a rather lengthy page chalk full of evidence that there are indeed genetic differences between races and ethnic groups.

You can dress your quote up however you like but it doesn't say that all races, on average, are of equal intelligence nor is the hard science in favor of that view.

Misery Called wrote: What I'm interested in, is some understanding of biological differences between humans of different races and it's impact on health conditions, illneses etc.

I think this is an interesting topic too - also the genetic variation within races too.

Misery Called wrote:Intelligance? Inherently how can you respect of dispute one's intelligance because of his/her race? That's pointless. Educations and upbringing defines a man...although at times there are exceptions, I dnt think these exceptions are soo widespread that u can trophy or malign entire races altogether.

Agreed.

What is nice,though, is that the scientific conclusion of those scientists who study this material concludes that despite the individual genetic variation within and between races, intelligence/technological/cultural progress etc all are not down to genetic differences.

I thought the conclusion quoted above made this very clear. However, there will always be those who believe they know more than the experts!

Cheers,
Shafique

Hard evidence of differences between ethnic groups. Interesting to say the least:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_i ... Brain_size

<h1>

Race differences in average IQ are largely genetic</h1>

The Worldwide Pattern of IQ Scores. East Asians average higher on IQ tests than Whites, both in the U. S. and in Asia, even though IQ tests were developed for use in the Euro-American culture. Around the world, the average IQ for East Asians centers around 106; for Whites, about 100; and for Blacks about 85 in the U.S. and 70 in sub-Saharan Africa.

Race Differences are Most Pronounced on Tests that Best Measure the General Intelligence Factor (g). Black-White differences, for example, are larger on the Backward Digit Span test than on the less g loaded Forward Digit Span test.

The Gene-Environment Architecture of IQ is the Same in all Races, and Race Differences are Most Pronounced on More Heritable Abilities. Studies of Black, White, and East Asian twins, for example, show the heritability of IQ is 50% or higher in all races.

Brain Size Differences. Studies using magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) find a correlation of brain size with IQ of about 0.40. Larger brains contain more neurons and synapses and process information faster. Race differences in brain size are present at birth. By adulthood, East Asians average 1 cubic inch more cranial capacity than Whites who average 5 cubic inches more than Blacks.

Trans-Racial Adoption Studies. Race differences in IQ remain following adoption by White middle class parents. East Asians grow to average higher IQs than Whites while Blacks score lower. The Minnesota Trans-Racial Adoption Study followed children to age 17 and found race differences were even greater than at age 7: White children, 106; Mixed-Race children, 99; and Black children, 89.

Racial Admixture Studies. Black children with lighter skin, for example, average higher IQ scores. In South Africa, the IQ of the mixed-race "Colored" population averages 85, intermediate to the African 70 and White 100.

IQ Scores of Blacks and Whites Regress toward the Averages of Their Race. Parents pass on only some exceptional genes to offspring so parents with very high IQs tend to have more average children. Black and White children with parents of IQ 115 move to different averages--Blacks toward 85 and Whites to 100.

Race Differences in Other "Life-History" Traits. East Asians and Blacks consistently fall at two ends of a continuum with Whites intermediate on 60 measures of maturation, personality, reproduction, and social organization. For example, Black children sit, crawl, walk, and put on their clothes earlier than Whites or East Asians.

Race Differences and the Out-of-Africa theory of Human Origins. East Asian-White-Black differences fit the theory that modern humans arose in Africa about 100,000 years ago and expanded northward. During prolonged winters there was evolutionary selection for higher IQ created by problems of raising children, gathering and storing food, gaining shelter, and making clothes.

Do Culture-Only Theories Explain the Data? Culture-only theories do not explain the highly consistent pattern of race differences in IQ, especially the East Asian data. No interventions such as ending segregation, introducing school busing, or "Head Start" programs have reduced the gaps as culture-only theory would predict.

http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/04/26/9530.aspx

"The Worldwide Pattern of IQ Scores. East Asians average higher on IQ tests than Whites, both in the U. S. and in Asia, even though IQ tests were developed for use in the Euro-American culture. Around the world, the average IQ for East Asians centers around 106; for Whites, about 100; and for Blacks about 85 in the U.S. and 70 in sub-Saharan Africa."
Looks more to me about education than race.

Nucleus wrote:"The Worldwide Pattern of IQ Scores. East Asians average higher on IQ tests than Whites, both in the U. S. and in Asia, even though IQ tests were developed for use in the Euro-American culture. Around the world, the average IQ for East Asians centers around 106; for Whites, about 100; and for Blacks about 85 in the U.S. and 70 in sub-Saharan Africa."
Looks more to me about education than race.

Err, how exactly did you come to that conclusion?

East Asians - regardless of culture - have higher IQ than Whites, whether in East Asia or the West, including adopted East Asian children raised in White households.

The Black Africa/American Black IQ differences can have several explanations, including mixed heritage raising the IQ for Black Americans.

Asians put lot of emphasis on education and their children start to learn advance material from early age. Take for example math in India, China, and Singapore in grade 1 which is much more advance than grade 1 in western countries. Afria and esp Sub Sahra has very low level of formal education.

Blacks in US on average less educational standard due to poverty than their white counter parts. So looks to me it is more about standard of formal education than race.

Nucleus wrote:Asians put lot of emphasis on education and their children start to learn advance material from early age. Take for example math in India, China, and Singapore in grade 1 which is much more advance than grade 1 in western countries. Afria and esp Sub Sahra has very low level of formal education.

Blacks in US on average less educational standard due to poverty than their white counter parts. So looks to me it is more about standard of formal education than race.

As the article mentions, and as I know from studies, East Asians have similar IQ regardless of being raised in East Asia, the West or being adopted as infants and raised by White parents.

The IQ gap doesn't narrow between Whites and Blacks as a function of poverty. In fact, the IQ gap is closest for the very poor and widens between the races as income increases.

I should also point out the Minnesota Adoption study shows that Blacks and mulattos raised by White middle class households have lower IQ than adopted White children. Interestingly, mulattos (half black/half white) have an IQ at the midpoint between the adopted White and Black IQ's.

It is 8 year old article somebody already has debunked this non-sense. But I'm not gonna waste my time on this googling or discussing this.

--- Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:05 am ---

Looking at that chart it does looks to me it is education because there is steep rise for blacks near the end, which would probably correlate with change in education level and standard.

There is a steep rise in Black IQ as a function of family wealth. However, White IQ increases even steeper, so the IQ gap between Whites and Blacks is even greater at higher economic background, as the graph shows: a 10 point gap at the lowest economic level and a 16 point gap at the highest.

As far as what has been 'debunked', have adoption studies of Black, White and Asian children been 'debunked'? What about brain volume differences between racial groups?

This page offers comprehensive data on race, IQ and brain size - could you find just one example where a group w/ smaller brain volume had higher IQ than one w/ larger?

http://www.velesova-sloboda.org/antrop/ ... gence.html

What about reaction time or reciting numbers backwards? What do either of these tasks have to do w/ level of education, and why are there distinct differences between performance on these two tests and the race to which you belong?

my last post on this topic....

In his monograph on Asian Americans and IQ, Flynn claims that Chinese Americans' occupational achievements well exceed their IQ. He argues that the best explanation for this is environmental, and is due to such things as education, work ethic, and family values.... These people [who talk about race and intelligence] don't know evolutionary genetics. [ and need to get a life] They talk about interesting issues in race and biology. And since, I think, there are no real races, I wonder what these issues are. It makes me angry that I have to take time from my research (on the genetics of aging) to argue about something that shouldn't even need to be discussed (Blum).

C. Loring Brace, an anthropologist at the University of Michigan, claims that "race is a four-letter word with no basis in biological reality" (Blum). Others claim that the assertion that race is biologically meaningless is politically motivated.

http://www.skepdic.com/iqrace.html

So average East Asian and West African brain size is the same, right?