Dubai Forums Dubai Discussions Dubai Politics Talk

If someone doesn't agree with me, they just have a different opinion.

When it comes to issues that can be verified with stats, and I'm presented with stats that back up their view - I look at the stats and critique the stats.

In this case, the number of 'honor killings' in the USA is either above or below 0.5% of the total number of murders in the USA each year. My contention and guess is that the one murder in the OP is one of only a few that occur each year. I asked herve what the % was - I don't have the figure, but was guessing it would be a minute percentage.

We are talking specifically about one 'honor killing' in the USA - this is the thread title and OP.

Now, given you decided to post a quote saying that each year there are 5000 honor killings in America alone - and then asked me to take note - I think it is fair of me to comment and challenge what is clear to me a fabricated figure. I did my bit and looked the available stats - and I still maintain it is a fantastical figure that can't be supported.

You asked me to take note. I did.

I think it is fair that I give my opinion and it is certainly fair that I gave you actual government stats on homicides.

I don't buy the argument that you can't identify the honour killings in the USA (for example given the racial breakdown of the stats, we can see that fewer than 130 non-white and non-black females were murdered in 2009). I also think that the various news sites do and will record the honour killings - certainly JihadWatch etc aren't shy when it comes up.

Someone invented the 5000 figure - some people may be inclined to believe it. I merely point out it is not credible given the other verifiable stats.

Cheers,
Shafique

Well what goes on the US is certainly something you don't know anything about. And who is to say that YOUR stats are accurate and should be relied upon? and everyone else who doesn't agree with you, any quotes/stats provided should be discounted as fabricated or inaccurate.

I give up.

Over and out.

You quote a blogger, I quote the Government stats.

This isn't a contest to see who thinks their stats are more reliable - or am I missing something. Surely the onus is on the person presenting the evidence to back up that evidence. 5000 looks enormous when considering that the total numbers of murders each year is around 13000.

What did you expect me to do when you presented your 5000 figure and asked me to 'take note'?

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:You quote a blogger, I quote the Government stats.

This isn't a contest to see who thinks their stats are more reliable - or am I missing something. Surely the onus is on the person presenting the evidence to back up that evidence. 5000 looks enormous when considering that the total numbers of murders each year is around 13000.

What did you expect me to do when you presented your 5000 figure and asked me to 'take note'?

Cheers,
Shafique

If you are going to accuse me of something, please get it right. I did not quote a blogger. What I did was to take an article from the blog - Pikes is not a blogger. - I pointed out previously, he is a highly educated man with 11 books to his credit!!!

I would put more value into what he has to say than I would someone who selectively cuts and pastes and uses stats to prove a point, and cannot establish any credentials to prove their expertise on said subject, not to mention someone who doesn't know diddly about America or Americans on the whole. America to you is as foreign to me as is Somalia. I don't know diddly about the laws, how the people think, culture, etc.

Do you still believe that 5000 honour killings occur in America alone each year, even though in 2009 fewer than 130 non-white and non-black women were murdered in the whole USA (out of a total of 13,600 murders)?

Daniel Pipes is a blogger.

(oh, and your assumptions about what I know about the USA and stats are quite wide of the mark. But the stats I quoted speak for themselves.. they don't have anything to do with my knowledge of the USA or familiarity with the statistics. I really don't understand why quoting the homicide figures for the USA is 'selective quoting'?)

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Do you still believe that 5000 honour killings occur in America alone each year, even though in 2009 fewer than 130 non-white and non-black women were murdered in the whole USA (out of a total of 13,600 murders)?

Daniel Pipes is a blogger.

Cheers,
Shafique

Everybody blogs today. I bet you even blog!!

Who said all Muslims are one color?? I know many white Muslims. I also know some very black Muslims. Muslims come in all shapes, sizes, and color. Take me for instance - white and blue eyes. To look at me you would not know I'm Muslim (except when I'm wearing my Afghani burka ). There are many women, non-Muslim who are married to Muslims and there are cases of Muslim women married to non-Muslims - yes it does happen. Breaking down murder by race is not a determining factor.

Edit: Bora - aren't we talking at crossed purposes here. The quote you gave only says Daniel Pipes said that there were 7 million muslims in the USA 'was high'.

The quote of 5000 honor killings is from a 'J Grant Swank' - who's a Pastor as far as I can make out.

The link to the article quoting Swank is broken in the link you gave.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Edit: Bora - aren't we talking at crossed purposes here. The quote you gave only says Daniel Pipes said that there were 7 million muslims in the USA 'was high'.

The quote of 5000 honor killings is from a 'J Grant Swank' - who's a Pastor as far as I can make out.

The link to the article quoting Swank is broken in the link you gave.

Cheers,
Shafique

You know what, I really don't care. I think we have exhausted this and can't go any further anyway. So might as well put this one in the cupboard.

But you were talking about Pipes being a published scholar weren't you? ( I thought you were )

This Swank fellow and his quote doesn't seem to be based on any stats that I can find - and the article doesn't seem to be on the news website any more either (I searched the site for various combinations).

Oh well. Just another rogue statistic I guess - but it goes to show, just because someone cites a figure, it is easy to take it as gospel if one doesn't investigate.

Pipes had nothing to do with this figure of 5000 honor killings!

Cheers,
Shafique

rogue statistic ...LOOOL !

kanelli wrote:How do some of you from other religions besides Islam feel about the nasty quotes about how women should be treated in your religious texts?

Lots of killing has been done under the guise of true religion because conveniently people can interpret a lot from the texts.

You are right, in this sick video the cleric explains that killing a cheating wife on the spot is not murder, just a misdemeanor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9OoejF-U9w&NR=1