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Bethsmum wrote:Sym, While I appreciate the new Sym, I haven't forgotten your past stance of 'Lets kill all Israelis'.
Please don't talk to me about ethics and contradictions and being harsh.

I'm not following a time line for you to let got your grudges. I have literally battled the ego in me, and declared my new change in thoughts in front of everyone. I did mention that I'm not doing it to please anyone, because I know there will always be people who'll never be satisfied, thus I chose to dedicate this change to myself and for the sake of peace of humanity.

I don't hate Israelis anymore, nor I wish to see any of them get killed, or any other human being. I was inspired by Ghandi and not sure if you watched his movie, but I'm (with no exaggeration) willing to sponsor an Israeli orphan as much as I'm willing to sponsor a Palestinian orphan, and that's Ghandi's approach of peace.

Perhaps you don't use terms such as "let's kill all Muslims" , or "let's kill all Palestinians", but you can't help not expressing your hatred towards Muslims and some other group of people, and everyone knows that already.
if you refuse to change your views, and refuse to let go your grudges, then what makes you different than any other hateful person? I feel so pitiful for you, and perhaps its due time YOU change, instead of making others feel bad about their mistakes in the past.

You are contradicting yourself. You're asking others to change, yet you refuse to change.
You are lecturing others in ethics and morals, while you need one yourself.

Excellent post bro ! Wallahi, mia fil mia.

Sym, I don't hold grudges and I certainly don't hold any grudge against you, I'm pleased you saw the error of your ways and don't hate Israelis anymore.
You are right, I have never said death to anyone, on this forum, nor in real life. I don't hate Muslims nor anyone (except my daughter's husband), I just have a problem seeing where you all come from sometimes.
I have a particularly good friend who is a Muslim, I don't hate him, quite the opposite actually.

sym, I know you are beginning to change some of your views. I was merely pointing out that Herve's comments are as hateful as the ones you used to write. It is easy for so many to crap on you for those previous posts, but Herve gets a free pass from certain posters.

Ummm I don't know what's goin on here, but thank you MCL and Sym for your nice words about persians!

Eftikhare ma be entiha ast
Persian and proud of every bit of it!

-- Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:49 pm --

desertdudeshj wrote:Excellent post bro ! Wallahi, mia fil mia.

Shukran habibi

kanelli wrote:sym, I know you are beginning to change some of your views. I was merely pointing out that Herve's comments are as hateful as the ones you used to write. It is easy for so many to crap on you for those previous posts, but Herve gets a free pass from certain posters.

not hatred kanelli, facts, supported by hundreds of links, just quoting a few

Arab countries have the highest prevalence of birth defects in the world, according to the March of Dimes Birth Defects Foundation Report in 2006.
http://www.ehow.com/about_5700301_arabic-diseases.html

disproportionately high level of genetic disease, at least partly due to the prevalence of first cousin marriages.
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/ ... sequenced/

To avoid the negative impact of the project, Arab states must establish adequate legal measures and ethical guidelines as well as analysing the social impact of the availability of personal genetic information before delivering them to the public and medical communities."
http://www.scidev.net/en/news/scientist ... enome.html

Arab world- High consanguinity rates—25-60% of all marriages are consanguineous, and the rate of first cousin marriages is high
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1618440/

Genetic disorders are common in Arab countries and account for a substantial proportion of physical and mental handicap
Oxford Monographs on Medical Genetics on Genetic Disorders among Arab Populations

Arab nations have some of the highest rates of genetic disorders in the world, according to the Centre for Arab Genomic Studies (CAGS).

On another note, I can only imagine the fury and calls for racism if it had been a western organization to study the arab race gene, but because arabs did it, it cannot create a controversy regarding race as a method for classifying humans.
It is a risky business anyways, and it should be strickly controlled, one who studies genetic dispositions and weaknesses to certain diseases in a certain group could very well engineer a "vaccine" that kills only this group of people leaving the others unharmed, very dangerous studies indeed which could easily be corrupt.
However I wonder how arab scientist are able to study genetic at all, do you know that Pigs are chosen over primates for several reasons. First, Pigs breed rapidly and are easy and cost effective to raise. Second, they are free of all known diseases. yup no diseases , Genetic engineering in pigs would allow pig cells to produce human proteins that prevent the pig organ from being rejected. Of course xenotransplantation from pigs is not going to happen with arabs.

-- Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:55 pm --

shafique wrote: So, are these* Ashkenazi Jews who carry the 'Arab Gene' - are they Jewish Arabs or Arab Jews?

(*the ones with the J Haplogroup. wiki says it is about 20%, but I couldn't immediately see an exact figure - it says '1 in 5')

Cheers,
Shafique

Looking for controversy over jews again, not information. so I will not debate this further with you, just read this
http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts-jews.html

@Kanelli .. As long as you keep me away from your examples, then that enough for me.
@Herve .. You're a freak

symmetric wrote:@Kanelli .. As long as you keep me away from your examples, then that enough for me.
@Herve .. You're a freak

how s that sym, I made you realize that you qualify to be on the CAGS list?

What's a CAGS list Mr. Nostradamos

Still better than being on the FAG list like hervy poo !

symmetric wrote:@Kanelli .. As long as you keep me away from your examples, then that enough for me.
@Herve .. You're a freak

I see you haven't addressed my reply Sym, and still name calling I see.

Herve isn't a freak sym. He's a hero.

herve is still dodging the question about what to call the 20+% of Ashkenazi Jews (incidentally, these are the ones who are 'white') who carry what he is calling the 'Arab Gene'.

Are they Jewish Arabs or Arab Jews?

It isn't a facetious or controversial question. It is asking whether an Ashkenazi Jew who carries what herve calls the 'Arab Gene' is. If they aren't Arab - then how can it be called an 'Arab Gene'?

I suspect it is nothing more than a shared Semitic Haplogroup and not an 'Arab Gene'. Jews and Arabs are related, after all.

Cheers,
Shafique

shaf, you dont beleive there is an arab gene?

^I'm willing to be agnostic about it - as I'm not a geneticist. Perhaps there is an 'Arab gene' - but so far herve is the one that claims there is one, but what he's defined as the 'Arab gene' happens to occur in a good proportion of Ashkenazi Jews (or 'European Jews').

I do know that there are semitic genes that are shared by 'Israelites' (descendants of Israel/Jacob - son of Isaac, grandson of Abraham) and the Arabs (descendants of Abraham via his son Ishmael).

I do know that Cohens share genetic markers - but I wasn't aware of an 'Arab gene' as such.

Cheers,
Shafique

herve wrote:Second, they are free of all known diseases. yup no diseases

Well, there is Foot and Mouth disease...

http://www.thepigsite.com/articles/?ARE ... isplay=305

as well as Swine Vesicular Disease

The pig is chosen as it is closest in mammalian size and structure to a human when it comes to certain organs or parts of organs. At best they would be a stop gap, not a solution.



Knight

^IIRC there are also concerns with porcine retroviruses which are harmless to pigs but may be harmful to humans (either as are, or after mutation). This is a concern for xeno-transplants - but for Muslims and Jews it is another reason to avoid the pork.

cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:^I'm willing to be agnostic about it - as I'm not a geneticist. Perhaps there is an 'Arab gene' - but so far herve is the one that claims there is one, but what he's defined as the 'Arab gene' happens to occur in a good proportion of Ashkenazi Jews (or 'European Jews').

I do know that there are semitic genes that are shared by 'Israelites' (descendants of Israel/Jacob - son of Isaac, grandson of Abraham) and the Arabs (descendants of Abraham via his son Ishmael).

I do know that Cohens share genetic markers - but I wasn't aware of an 'Arab gene' as such.

Cheers,
Shafique

Is that difficult to accept al shafique? anyways , again you dont read my posts, I am not the one who said there is an arab gene, it s the arabs themselves, starting with Sheikh hamdan. He created the Center for Arab genome study, dont you read english? if he created an center to study the arab genome, on his own admission there is one, otherwise why study it?
Then the Saudi Biosciences is also studying the arab genome. are they in denial too? studying something that does not exist ?:lol:

-- Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:43 am --

shafique wrote:herve is still dodging the question about what to call the 20+% of Ashkenazi Jews (incidentally, these are the ones who are 'white') who carry what he is calling the 'Arab Gene'.

Are they Jewish Arabs or Arab Jews?

It isn't a facetious or controversial question. It is asking whether an Ashkenazi Jew who carries what herve calls the 'Arab Gene' is. If they aren't Arab - then how can it be called an 'Arab Gene'?

I suspect it is nothing more than a shared Semitic Haplogroup and not an 'Arab Gene'. Jews and Arabs are related, after all.

Cheers,
Shafique

I am not dodging your questions, you are dodging my responses, unless you too qualify to be on the CAGS list.....I told you in a previous post that you will find your response about the Ashkenazi Jews here http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts-jews.html
For you and sym, the CAGS lists 900 genetic disorders, birth defect and other mental retardation , that are transmitted by arabs. again I dont say it, it is said on the CAGS website.
http://www.cags.org.ae/index.html

herve, I did click through to your link. I could not see the answer to the (simple) question.

What are the Ashkenazi Jews with what YOU call the 'Arab Gene' - are they Arabs or not?

If they are not Arabs, but have the 'Arab Gene' - how can YOU call it an 'Arab Gene'. Or are they indeed, Ashkenazi Jews who are Arab too?

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:herve, I did click through to your link. I could not see the answer to the (simple) question.

What are the Ashkenazi Jews with what YOU call the 'Arab Gene' - are they Arabs or not?

If they are not Arabs, but have the 'Arab Gene' - how can YOU call it an 'Arab Gene'. Or are they indeed, Ashkenazi Jews who are Arab too?

Cheers,
Shafique

Like I expected it, you did not understand the article, yet it is very clear on this link, go back to school, you have indeed absolutely no understanding what soever how genetic works
And Sheikh Hamdan acknowldeged there is an arab gene by creating an institution to study it, not ME, it is called the CAGS http://www.cags.org.ae/index.html

I think all this "White Race" hype is just a non-issue. Scientifically speaking, there is no such thing as a White Race, or white genes or Arab or Jewish genes. Human populations in the present day and age is too mobile for any race to remain pure and pristine. We all have some good genes and some that we wish we never had. There is no doubt that the human race originated in Central Africa, whether you believe in evolution or creationism. This neuroses about the white race becoming extinct reached quite ridiculous proportions with Hitler and his Nazis, and more recently in apartheid in S Africa.
However, there is definitely a danger of the whole human race becoming extinct, collapsing under the weight of its multiple anxieties and neuroses leading to strife and war, rather than concentrating on the more pressing problems of a burgeoning population, poverty, disease. My 0.02 cents worth.

So are we all blue?
But then there is light blue and dark blue

herve wrote:

shafique wrote:herve, I did click through to your link. I could not see the answer to the (simple) question.

What are the Ashkenazi Jews with what YOU call the 'Arab Gene' - are they Arabs or not?

If they are not Arabs, but have the 'Arab Gene' - how can YOU call it an 'Arab Gene'. Or are they indeed, Ashkenazi Jews who are Arab too?

Cheers,
Shafique

Like I expected it, you did not understand the article, yet it is very clear on this link, go back to school, you have indeed absolutely no understanding what soever how genetic works

And Sheikh Hamdan acknowldeged there is an arab gene by creating an institution to study it, not ME, it is called the CAGS http://www.cags.org.ae/index.html

It was a simple question - what are the Ashkenazi Jews who have what YOU call the 'Arab gene'? I did understand the article, as it happens.

I'm just challenging you to back up YET ANOTHER of your fantastic pronouncements.

Are Ashkenazi Jews with the 'Arab Gene' Arabs or are they Jews? If they are Jews - then haven't you mis-represented this 'Arab Gene' - isn't it actually a 'Semitic Gene'??

Cheers,
Shafique

zonker wrote:I think all this "White Race" hype is just a non-issue. Scientifically speaking, there is no such thing as a White Race, or white genes or Arab or Jewish genes. Human populations in the present day and age is too mobile for any race to remain pure and pristine. We all have some good genes and some that we wish we never had. There is no doubt that the human race originated in Central Africa, whether you believe in evolution or creationism. This neuroses about the white race becoming extinct reached quite ridiculous proportions with Hitler and his Nazis, and more recently in apartheid in S Africa.
However, there is definitely a danger of the whole human race becoming extinct, collapsing under the weight of its multiple anxieties and neuroses leading to strife and war, rather than concentrating on the more pressing problems of a burgeoning population, poverty, disease. My 0.02 cents worth.

Well this was heading towards the most sensible post in the thread I have read so far! I would just add that Hitler’s goal was Aryan, a Caucasian sub-race, rather than ‘White’ and he in fact considered the Iranian peoples as a good example, Apartheid in SA was about white supremacy rather than a fear of extinction of the white peoples.

In my schooldays, in physical anthropology, there were four ‘races’ clearly identifiable major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics who walked this Earth, Caucasoid, Negroid, Mongoloid and Australoid was added as a master race by Huxley in the 19th century. The races were not identified by skin colour but specific cranial features and dimensions, Darwin and Huxley were the early publishers.

For reasons unknown to me, our colonial cousins across the pond in America define Caucasoid as ‘White Skinned’, this contravenes everything I ever learned and defies all logic, for Caucasians, as defined by Darwin and his bulldog, can be found from the Arctic circle to the Sub Saharan deserts and as far East as Chennai with skin colours varying from positively anaemic to the darker hues of reddish brown!

So what is the OP all about? Are ‘White’ and ‘Non-Hispanic white’ clearly defined as specific ethnic groups in America? Who the hell are ‘Minorities’ can’t they be ‘white’ as well or are all ‘minorities’ black? I think the Author is adding a little more confusion than necessary to the statistics, as is the MO of another DF contributor perhaps he is an actuary as well?

How we get from “Majority of Babies in US are Minorities” the title of the OP, to “Do you think the white race is heading for extinction?” The thread title, is bizarre, to say the least! There is no such thing as a white race as Zonker has already pointed out, there are white ethnic groups and white peoples, races are something completely different.

Interesting to note though, most of the people who prescribe to the theory that one day all white’s will become beige, are mainly brown? I wonder why that is?

Never mind Bora, if it gets that difficult for you in the US, we European Caucasians will always be able to muster a few more ‘Mayflowers’ to assist you in the repopulation of the Americas after the next World War, White peoples become extinct? Dream on brothers.

At least you brought the thread back on track Dillon!! Reference to the word Caucasian has been replaced by white - politically correct or to cover the masses? The term "black" when referring to race covers a spectrum of races as well. Almost all forms of any sort in the US (employment, medical, etc) will have a "What is your race" column. I don't know if they have now included "Brown" as it would certainly be warranted. Would be pretty hard to list every nationality, so to narrow it down it became skin color.

As for you European Caucasians, I think your numbers are dwindling as well Dillon. so best to hold on to what is left!!!!

BTW, welcome back!!!!

Bora Bora wrote:At least you brought the thread back on track Dillon!! Reference to the word Caucasian has been replaced by white - politically correct or to cover the masses? The term "black" when referring to race covers a spectrum of races as well. Almost all forms of any sort in the US (employment, medical, etc) will have a "What is your race" column. I don't know if they have now included "Brown" as it would certainly be warranted. Would be pretty hard to list every nationality, so to narrow it down it became skin color.

As for you European Caucasians, I think your numbers are dwindling as well Dillon. so best to hold on to what is left!!!!

BTW, welcome back!!!!

Dwindling? maybe in the eyes of some brown supremacists Bora, just because some ethnic groups of peoples are breeding like an uncontrolled rabbit population doesn't mean that others are dwindling? rather they are simply maintaining their numbers!

I personally, am a firm believer in the M&S policy "The business is in good shape and we have strong foundations on which to build through evolution not revolution" we're focusing on Quality, not Quantity.



Thanks for the WB!

Hey Dillon - WB from me too.

Great post too - agree with it all. The reports of the extinction of the 'white race' have been over-stated..

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:The reports of the extinction of the 'white race' have been over-stated..
Cheers,
Shafique

Says who, you?? Have you done extensive research on the white race?? Do you have any charts or facts to support your statement? Is that a fact orr is that just your opinion? If so, what is that opinion based on (provide proof please)?

^Well, why don't we start with the two book references I gave above (which I have read and understood).. as well as the articles which herve linked to - and above all the points which Dillon makes.

But hey, don't let my views on the subject influence what you want to conclude/believe. I can't see the white race going extinct any time soon, nor any other major Caucasian sub-race either.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:^Well, why don't we start with the two book references I gave above (which I have read and understood).. as well as the articles which herve linked to - and above all the points which Dillon makes.

But hey, don't let my views on the subject influence what you want to conclude/believe. I can't see the white race going extinct any time soon, nor any other major Caucasian sub-race either.

Cheers,
Shafique

So, reading 2 books compared to, errrr how many books out there talking pro/con....a few links, and someone elses opinion makes you an expert and your opinion rules over and above whatever else someone who may have actually researched the subject may say? Gotcha!!!!

Does your agreement with Dillon also include his statement about all those non-whites multiplying like rabbits in Merry Ole England???

The fact is: there is no hardcore proof that the white race will become extinct. In all probability, based on research, at the very least the "white" race, as we know it, will become the minority and the "brown" race will be the majority.