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The 3 bloggers appeared in court today.
I am reluctant to post any details for fear of suffering the same fate.
The local press has been banned from reporting on it.

It's a bit scary really to see people hauled up, just for writing about what they believe in. Another thing that sets this region back a gazillion years.

As the saying goes, 'I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it!'.

They wanted to be arrested anyway for the publicity.
But I don't think they are going to get much support for their cause in UAE.
In fact, there were people protesting against them outside the court. Now there's freedom of speech for you!

Chocoholic wrote:It's a bit scary really to see people hauled up, just for writing about what they believe in. Another thing that sets this region back a gazillion years.

As the saying goes, 'I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it!'.

no need to set it "back" a gazillion years, it was there already, never moved forward.

herve wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:It's a bit scary really to see people hauled up, just for writing about what they believe in. Another thing that sets this region back a gazillion years.

As the saying goes, 'I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it!'.

no need to set it "back" a gazillion years, it was there already, never moved forward.

LOL you do have a point. But it's a crying shame when people actually stand up for their cause and get treated this way. And they wonder why things don't change.

they asked for it, did they honestly think that they could lead a protest against the government like what was going in some other nations nearby?
besides you dont go out calling the leaders names and describe them as thiefs and bribes after everything they have done for us and the da#N country they built and are running sleepless nights to make sure it runs as the best way they can. not here.
besides, every tribe of the UAE has filed a case against them for treason and plotting an anti gov. demonstration or something like that, which could only mean that we are not having that kind of crap over here. most of you wouldnt understand this from a cultural point of view because of the cultural differences.

general_A wrote:they asked for it, did they honestly think that they could lead a protest against the government like what was going in some other nations nearby?
besides you dont go out calling the leaders names and describe them as thiefs and bribes after everything they have done for us and the da#N country they built and are running sleepless nights to make sure it runs as the best way they can. not here.
besides, every tribe of the UAE has filed a case against them for treason and plotting an anti gov. demonstration or something like that, which could only mean that we are not having that kind of crap over here. most of you wouldnt understand this from a cultural point of view because of the cultural differences.

erm I'm sorry WHO has built this country? I think that would be the millions of expats! And yes some of us do understand, the authorities have been pretty smart in keeping their people happy for the most part, basically to ensure that what has happened elsewhere doesn't happen here. I think they do a pretty good job of it to be honest.

Chocoholic wrote:

general_A wrote:they asked for it, did they honestly think that they could lead a protest against the government like what was going in some other nations nearby?
besides you dont go out calling the leaders names and describe them as thiefs and bribes after everything they have done for us and the da#N country they built and are running sleepless nights to make sure it runs as the best way they can. not here.
besides, every tribe of the UAE has filed a case against them for treason and plotting an anti gov. demonstration or something like that, which could only mean that we are not having that kind of crap over here. most of you wouldnt understand this from a cultural point of view because of the cultural differences.

erm I'm sorry WHO has built this country? I think that would be the millions of expats! And yes some of us do understand, the authorities have been pretty smart in keeping their people happy for the most part, basically to ensure that what has happened elsewhere doesn't happen here. I think they do a pretty good job of it to be honest.

those millions of expats where paid, PAID to do task assigned to them, they didnt come here to build all they built as in form of charity, expats she said. why didnt they build there own countries then. there is more to building a country than just your lame excuses like: the builders who came from india and pakistan built it, yes they did, coz the were paid to do so, with our money and the help of foriegn engineers, who also were paid to do a job.

our rulers have been good to us even in the days when there was nothing but sand here, long before any of what has happend today in some countries, what you say is offending, disrespectful and ungreatful miss.

our rulers have been good to us even in the days when there was nothing but sand here, long before any of what has happend today in some countries, what you say is offending, disrespectful and ungreatful miss.

I agree! How rude is that?

I hate it when immigrants come to a country and totally disrespect it. Like I say to those in my country, if you don't like it, go home.

Sad, but true. What about all the people who were 'tricked' with the promise of good office jobs and ended up as construction workers, with their passports taken away etc? Yes, the fault of the ruthless companies that would abuse people like that, but true non-the-less. Did you forget that the workers used to be carted about in cattle trucks, until the King of Jordan said it was completely inhumane? Hmmm

Oh you're another one of those with the rose tinted glasses, who never sees the bad side

Sorry to break it to you, but people aren't all sweetness and light, and there has been the fair share of controversy, court cases and nasty stuff to come out of this place. No different to anywhere else, but please don't be so naive to think that's it's all good.

BM, stop sticking your oar in as usual - you're just a 'visitor'. Oh let's watch now as you suck up to this guy as well - predictable as ever!

Chocoholic wrote:Sad, but true. What about all the people who were 'tricked' with the promise of good office jobs and ended up as construction workers, with their passports taken away etc? Yes, the fault of the ruthless companies that would abuse people like that, but true non-the-less. Did you forget that the workers used to be carted about in cattle trucks, until the King of Jordan said it was completely inhumane? Hmmm

Oh you're another one of those with the rose tinted glasses, who never sees the bad side

Sorry to break it to you, but people aren't all sweetness and light, and there has been the fair share of controversy, court cases and nasty stuff to come out of this place. No different to anywhere else, but please don't be so naive to think that's it's all good.

BM, stop sticking your oar in as usual - you're just a 'visitor'. Oh let's watch now as you suck up to this guy as well - predictable as ever!

Yes Chocs, I'm a visitor and so are you. You would do well to remember that.

You're a suck up is what you are! Don't play the whole pious thing either. You have zero and I mean zero idea of what it's like really in the UAE, you come once in a blue moon to your 'holiday' home. Well some of us have lived and worked our socks off for years.

Bethsmum wrote:

our rulers have been good to us even in the days when there was nothing but sand here, long before any of what has happend today in some countries, what you say is offending, disrespectful and ungreatful miss.

I agree! How rude is that?

I hate it when immigrants come to a country and totally disrespect it. Like I say to those in my country, if you don't like it, go home.

But BM, aren't you telling that to the immigrants that get free housing and paid to do nothing by the UK government???? which is pretty much the opposite here where only locals are entitled to that kind of "compensation". There is nothing free in Dubai for expats.

Chocoholic wrote:You're a suck up is what you are! Don't play the whole pious thing either. You have zero and I mean zero idea of what it's like really in the UAE, you come once in a blue moon to your 'holiday' home. Well some of us have lived and worked our socks off for years.

errrm, I AM emiraty

general_A wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:You're a suck up is what you are! Don't play the whole pious thing either. You have zero and I mean zero idea of what it's like really in the UAE, you come once in a blue moon to your 'holiday' home. Well some of us have lived and worked our socks off for years.

errrm, I AM emiraty

eeerm I wasn't talking to you! That was aimed at BM! Come on, get the hang of this

But back to the original topic, I do understand your point of view and yes what they did was wrong. I don't see any reason for it here at all. As I have said before the UAE runs on a pretty good equilibrium that seems to work for it. The problem comes - and I'll link this to the "Do you believe everything you read' thread - is that when people are banned from saying what they feel (all the press are heavily edited and there is a 5 million dollar fine to any journo speaking out or writing anything bad about the rulers) is that it can and does breed contention, because it's obvious that not everything is going to be perfect all the time. The strangle hold on the media, does seem to have relaxed in recent years, so much more is being reported now, that even 2 years ago, would be hushed up.

For me the bloggers I think were pretty much jumping on the band-wagon of what's happened elsewhere, which is a tragedy. Yes, in certain countries it needed to be done as the people were suffering, especially in places like Egypt. But here? Not necessary.

bad news travel quick, i wouldnt go to a place were i have heard all those negativities about it, and risk being stuck there for life with a sh1tty job, but hey, they still keep commoing, so i would only assume that there must be something good here for them, you, and everybody else whop came here to make a BETTER living.

general_A wrote:bad news travel quick, i wouldnt go to a place were i have heard all those negativities about it, and risk being stuck there for life with a sh1tty job, but hey, they still keep commoing, so i would only assume that there must be something good here for them, you, and everybody else whop came here to make a BETTER living.

The weather lol But in all seriousness, a place is what you make it. My parents were here for many years before me. Some people do well, others totally mess it up. But others don't get the chance to even see the place.

Chocoholic wrote:

general_A wrote:bad news travel quick, i wouldnt go to a place were i have heard all those negativities about it, and risk being stuck there for life with a sh1tty job, but hey, they still keep commoing, so i would only assume that there must be something good here for them, you, and everybody else whop came here to make a BETTER living.

The weather lol But in all seriousness, a place is what you make it. My parents were here for many years before me. Some people do well, others totally mess it up. But others don't get the chance to even see the place.

people migrate to other countries, and dont even get there alive, no ones blaming anyone for that, you do need a bit of luck to go with hard work

This is true. Te thing that I feel sad mostly about, is the people that came here with the aim of making a fast buck, took it for all it was worth then disappeared. Like all the ruthless developers, who took honest investors cash and then ran, after all that only now are regulations put in place to stop it. But it's a learning curve on both sides really.

I would say the positives far outweigh the negatives or many people would have left along time ago.

I do feel sorry for many of you locals though and here's a question for you, are you happy with the way things are going and have progressed? I know many aren't and feel that the culture is gradually being eroded away. I always remember the 60 minutes program with interviews with the likes of Sheikh Mohd and other high people who came across extremely well, but the one segment that stuck in my mind, was an interview with a well respected Emirati female professor who was a little upset that 'they' had never asked for what was happening to the country. She put her point across very well and it did make people stop and think - where does it all end?

Just asking.

Chocoholic wrote:You're a suck up is what you are! Don't play the whole pious thing either. You have zero and I mean zero idea of what it's like really in the UAE, you come once in a blue moon to your 'holiday' home. Well some of us have lived and worked our socks off for years.

Keep your hair on Chocs! You'll be giving yourself a coronary at this rate

I have been coming to Dubai for years and your claim that I know zero about what is going on is wearing a little bit thin now.

You slagging off the UAE is nothing better than the Pakistanis who come to England and bad mouth the British. I say to you what I say to them, if you don't like it, sod off back to where you came from. Just because you've been here a while doesn't give you any special rights. It's not your country and never will be. You are a visitor here and no better than me. I just don't bad mouth the place at every opportunity and it that's being a suck up, well I'm a suck up, I can live with that. I'll just add it to the long list of names you have called me, It's a slight improvement on Nazi.

Bethsmum wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:You're a suck up is what you are! Don't play the whole pious thing either. You have zero and I mean zero idea of what it's like really in the UAE, you come once in a blue moon to your 'holiday' home. Well some of us have lived and worked our socks off for years.

Keep your hair on Chocs! You'll be giving yourself a coronary at this rate

I have been coming to Dubai for years and your claim that I know zero about what is going on is wearing a little bit thin now.

You slagging off the UAE is nothing better than the Pakistanis who come to England and bad mouth the British. I say to you what I say to them, if you don't like it, sod off back to where you came from. Just because you've been here a while doesn't give you any special rights. It's not your country and never will be. You are a visitor here and no better than me. I just don't bad mouth the place at every opportunity and it that's being a suck up, well I'm a suck up, I can live with that. I'll just add it to the long list of names you have called me, It's a slight improvement on Nazi.

erm I didn't make that comment to you! Bora did, so please don't take THAT out on me! BM, you're the one constantly throwing your toys out the pram. FYI, if I was living in the UK, I be pulling all the issues I have with that place, which I hasten to add I am never EVER going back to!

Chocoholic wrote:This is true. Te thing that I feel sad mostly about, is the people that came here with the aim of making a fast buck, took it for all it was worth then disappeared. Like all the ruthless developers, who took honest investors cash and then ran, after all that only now are regulations put in place to stop it. But it's a learning curve on both sides really.

I would say the positives far outweigh the negatives or many people would have left along time ago.

I do feel sorry for many of you locals though and here's a question for you, are you happy with the way things are going and have progressed? I know many aren't and feel that the culture is gradually being eroded away. I always remember the 60 minutes program with interviews with the likes of Sheikh Mohd and other high people who came across extremely well, but the one segment that stuck in my mind, was an interview with a well respected Emirati female professor who was a little upset that 'they' had never asked for what was happening to the country. She put her point across very well and it did make people stop and think - where does it all end?

Just asking.

the culture is gradually being eroded away, yes, but there are a lot of attempts by the government to keep it alive and going. i may not be a rich person, i have a job protecting my country and who ever lives on its soil and it is more than rewarding and hounoring to me. as for the rest of the emiraties (i hate the word local by the way), the majority of them and thats comming from an emiraty, the majority of them even if they dont have the best standards of living are more than happy that they live a decent life because they know that there are people around the world who are even much more less fortunate with the way they live. they also blame themselves for not trying to make a better life for themselves when they had the chance. and most of us love our leaders including many expats do, there might a few negativities here and there, but they dont take it for granted, we know how hard they work for the sake of us and the country and who ever lives here. believe me someone like me knows, and knows a lot.

-- Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:46 am --

and shall i add, that it's not the culture that erodes on it's own, it's some people who are letting go of it, they have the choice to do so or do otherwise.

Chocoholic wrote:

Bethsmum wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:You're a suck up is what you are! Don't play the whole pious thing either. You have zero and I mean zero idea of what it's like really in the UAE, you come once in a blue moon to your 'holiday' home. Well some of us have lived and worked our socks off for years.

Keep your hair on Chocs! You'll be giving yourself a coronary at this rate

I have been coming to Dubai for years and your claim that I know zero about what is going on is wearing a little bit thin now.

You slagging off the UAE is nothing better than the Pakistanis who come to England and bad mouth the British. I say to you what I say to them, if you don't like it, sod off back to where you came from. Just because you've been here a while doesn't give you any special rights. It's not your country and never will be. You are a visitor here and no better than me. I just don't bad mouth the place at every opportunity and it that's being a suck up, well I'm a suck up, I can live with that. I'll just add it to the long list of names you have called me, It's a slight improvement on Nazi.

erm I didn't make that comment to you! Bora did, so please don't take THAT out on me! BM, you're the one constantly throwing your toys out the pram. FYI, if I was living in the UK, I be pulling all the issues I have with that place, which I hasten to add I am never EVER going back to!

Ermmm, I think that is your quote Chocs.

-- Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:13 pm --

general_A wrote:those millions of expats where paid, PAID to do task assigned to them, they didnt come here to build all they built as in form of charity, expats she said. why didnt they build there own countries then. there is more to building a country than just your lame excuses like: the builders who came from india and pakistan built it, yes they did, coz the were paid to do so, with our money and the help of foriegn engineers, who also were paid to do a job.

our rulers have been good to us even in the days when there was nothing but sand here, long before any of what has happend today in some countries, what you say is offending, disrespectful and ungreatful miss.

General there is not argument that expats came here and got paid to build Dubai, in particular. But isn't that you do when you hire someone to do a job - pay them?? Let's be honest here, expats - on all levels - did the job that Emiratis couldn't or wouldn't do. How many Emiratis drive taxis, are in construction - the labor end? I see alot of locals working in sales positions, and I give them alot of credit. I also know quite a few that are highly intelligent and know how to run a business and do business, but they are the minority, not the majority.

Money, housing, etc. was given to the first generation during the process of modernization, but then wealth that was gained by them was handed over to the second generation without any lessons for value. There are many locals who weren't the beneficiaries of what was provided and who are so deep in debt because they had to "keep up". People learn from their mistakes and I'm sure if the powers that be could do it all over again, they would definitely do it differently. What is more important here is money, not knowledge. When you have knowledge, you are rich because you can't put a price on it. You can also take pride in knowing that you made a contribution to your country. Paying people to build your country is not a contribution.

I know there is a tribal/cultural mentality of taking care of your own, which is a good thing. That's tribal "politics". It's no different that any democratic country where politicians try to please their contingency to buy loyalty.

Even if all the Emiratis were employed there would still be a dependency on expats.

I watched the University of Sharjah graduation and noticed that there were more female locals than male locals who obtained degrees - including Master Degrees. On the whole the majority of graduates were expats. Why are the young girls more ambitious that the young men in this country? These educated women are not going to settle for marrying some guy who thinks playing games, riding around in his 4X4, hanging with his buddies - who basically are stunted where maturity and development are concerned and have no ambition. And I'm sure the parents of these girls want more for them. Young educated women are going to have a very hard time finding, at the very least, their equal.

Here here Bora

General I mean no disrespect to you or your country but I do feel that people should be able to speak out if they are not happy with the way things run. Maybe it is because I was brought up in the West that I feel this way, maybe if I was an Emirati I would feel differently, but there are obviously Emiratis who feel the same and feel the need to speak out. Surely talking about things should not be a crime. Pointing out flaws should not be a crime, asking for change should not be a crime. After all it is only by standing up for what you believe in that brings about change and clearly these people feel that change is needed. The saying is that you cannot please all the people all the time and maybe the government are doing a great job of pleasing most of the people most of the time but unless the fear of speaking out is taken away we will never really know the truth. If as you say the majority of Emirati's are satisfied that things are running fine there should be nothing to fear from a small minority asking for change. But maybe, just maybe if you did have a situation where people were allowed to choose you would find that people would welcome change. The trouble is under a dictatorship you do not get the chance to choose and as long as people are scared of the consequences you never will. As for the treatment of certain sectors of the expat community, well the conditions that some of them live in are appalling and the argument that they live in worse conditions back home maybe true but these people are leaving their countries for a better life, to try and improve their situations after all nobody would want to live in these conditions and as a fellow human being I fail to see how making such an argument allows those in power to sleep at night.

Bora Bora wrote:
General there is not argument that expats came here and got paid to build Dubai, in particular. But isn't that you do when you hire someone to do a job - pay them?? Let's be honest here, expats - on all levels - did the job that Emiratis couldn't or wouldn't do. How many Emiratis drive taxis, are in construction - the labor end? I see alot of locals working in sales positions, and I give them alot of credit. I also know quite a few that are highly intelligent and know how to run a business and do business, but they are the minority, not the majority.

Money, housing, etc. was given to the first generation during the process of modernization, but then wealth that was gained by them was handed over to the second generation without any lessons for value. There are many locals who weren't the beneficiaries of what was provided and who are so deep in debt because they had to "keep up". People learn from their mistakes and I'm sure if the powers that be could do it all over again, they would definitely do it differently. What is more important here is money, not knowledge. When you have knowledge, you are rich because you can't put a price on it. You can also take pride in knowing that you made a contribution to your country. Paying people to build your country is not a contribution.

I know there is a tribal/cultural mentality of taking care of your own, which is a good thing. That's tribal "politics". It's no different that any democratic country where politicians try to please their contingency to buy loyalty.

Even if all the Emiratis were employed there would still be a dependency on expats.

I watched the University of Sharjah graduation and noticed that there were more female locals than male locals who obtained degrees - including Master Degrees. On the whole the majority of graduates were expats. Why are the young girls more ambitious that the young men in this country? These educated women are not going to settle for marrying some guy who thinks playing games, riding around in his 4X4, hanging with his buddies - who basically are stunted where maturity and development are concerned and have no ambition. And I'm sure the parents of these girls want more for them. Young educated women are going to have a very hard time finding, at the very least, their equal.

if they werent "paid" then how come more and more kept comming? besides isn't it the construction's company's role to do that? doesnt the government put laws for that? a high percentage of construction company owners tend to take off once they grab the money of building a project, and you all know that, also dont forget that the UAE is a young country, so day by day or year by year new laws are being enforced, to best fit the workers in harsh conditions.

and hear this, my grandfather slaughterd cattle for a living after before he worked on a farm and then worked as a store keeper, my friend's father used to be a taxi driver and a construction worker (kooly), my other friend's uncle was a worker for an american oil company in abu dhabi and then as a fisherman, even i used to work in sales and worked as an aircraft fueling operator, so get the idea of locals not being able to do that kind of work, we are men after all. they worked hard before the emirates were united.

most of you dont know how many of our people gave thier lifes fighting for dubai in the days were no one heard of the place, that you didnt know i bet.

and just because someone is a good buisnessman, it doesnt mean that he or they are more intelligent than other people, they are intelligent in what they know best which is how to do good buisness, someone else will be more intelligent in another line of work or career.

so why would i do a much more physical job now with minimum pay when i can do better? right? i and others like me just happen to be so fortunate. correct?
i also never deny the fact the the UAE will still rely on foriegn labor, just like many many other countries.

if there were more female graduates than males then thats just because that statistics has shown that there are more females than males ALL AROUND THE WORLD and not just the UAE, i guess why there are more EXPAT gradutes overall? because in a country of a population of over 5 million, we are only about 800,000. to make it more simple, there are way more expats here than us, and the numbers keep rising, and the local guys that you protrait as being unambitious, have you sat with some of them to actualy know what was going on with thier lifes? or is it just an assumption? i will take that as a stereotypical assumption, i happen to know guys who look and act just the same, but are doctors, lawyers, law inforcing officers and take thier jobs very seriously. if some happen to take thier valuable time for granted, then thats thier problem, isnt it, nothing youn nor i should worry about, reality will slap them in the face and will might just reilize it a bit too late or just in time, right?

if life was bad here, how come there are millions and millions of expats work and live here? everyone can go back if they wanted to, but would they?

-- Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:15 pm --

patience wrote:Here here Bora

General I mean no disrespect to you or your country but I do feel that people should be able to speak out if they are not happy with the way things run. Maybe it is because I was brought up in the West that I feel this way, maybe if I was an Emirati I would feel differently, but there are obviously Emiratis who feel the same and feel the need to speak out. Surely talking about things should not be a crime. Pointing out flaws should not be a crime, asking for change should not be a crime. After all it is only by standing up for what you believe in that brings about change and clearly these people feel that change is needed. The saying is that you cannot please all the people all the time and maybe the government are doing a great job of pleasing most of the people most of the time but unless the fear of speaking out is taken away we will never really know the truth. If as you say the majority of Emirati's are satisfied that things are running fine there should be nothing to fear from a small minority asking for change. But maybe, just maybe if you did have a situation where people were allowed to choose you would find that people would welcome change. The trouble is under a dictatorship you do not get the chance to choose and as long as people are scared of the consequences you never will. As for the treatment of certain sectors of the expat community, well the conditions that some of them live in are appalling and the argument that they live in worse conditions back home maybe true but these people are leaving their countries for a better life, to try and improve their situations after all nobody would want to live in these conditions and as a fellow human being I fail to see how making such an argument allows those in power to sleep at night.

like you said, the majorty of people here are more than happy with how things are going, it was only these 3 guys who are demanding changes, with out the right of representing the whole country, and if you want to express how unhappy you are about how many things are going do so without having to insult the royal family and call them names.

from what I understood this guys is an emarati with an Iranian back ground and was linked to the group of people who started trouble in Bahrain which was linked and supported by iran ... iran is a big NO now in the region since the UAE islands case and what happened in Bahrain. the guy picked the worst timing to " practice his freedom of speech " and accusing government officials of many things and had no ground to stand on..

to top all of this thousands of emirates signed a law suite against him including me for accusing us of accepting bribes from the government .. he thought that he could manipulate emaraties to against their country, that was a very bad judgment.

Unfortunately I do not know what was said about the royal family as I believe the blog was in Arabic. I do feel that if you allow freedom of speech you may find that more than 3 guys feel this way and as I said if it is only 3 guys there really is nothing to worry about. Agreed that their case if weakened by insults as it is with everybody, but from the English reports I get the sense that they were unhappy with things and asking for reform and as long as there are laws in place which deny this freedom to people you will never really get a true representation of how happy/unhappy people are as they will be afraid to tell the truth.

@ UAE Kid am I right in saying there are alot of Emirati families with Iranian backgrounds?

Surely not corruption in politics?????? I would tend to believe this accusation and before you start it has its basis in the fact that so many politicians around the world have been caught with their fingers in the cookie jar, not just in the UAE (Take the FIFA scandal.) The point is that in a democratic country we do have a free press which tends to eventually root out bad apples and sometimes deter others from this practice. As you do not have a free press how does one go about uncovering these abuses and reporting them.

-- Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:01 pm --

As an example I give you the recent MP expense scandal here in the UK. If this had gone unreported it could have gone on much longer than it did. By the by for your own example I site Mohd Karbash I believe I am correct in saying that it was an open secret that he was not shall we say whiter than white for a long while before his arrest!!!!

you are entitled to free speech here, there are even radio stations that air some programs regarding that, as long as you can proof what you say, and some high ranking people do listen to what people have to complain about, and action does get taken. but if you like to stir up problems and start pointing fingers and insulting others without substantial proof, then you only going to hurt yourself, like uaekid said he has been linked to bahrain protests with the support of iran, then damn, he in deep sh1t. showing signs of loyalty to an unfriendly Niebuhr is a BIG no no.

I'm sorry General but we have to agree to disagree. Free speech is not practiced in the UAE and even with proof certain high ranking people will look the other way. And if the judiciary was so fair and impartial how come we all know what the outcome of cases are before they are even heard. A number of journalists in the UAE have been detained for one thing or another so therefore I would have to disagree that free speech exists in its true form. Whether or not these men are guilty of stirring up trouble on behalf of Iran I cannot say. Can you say for sure that they are????? If your press was free to report all sides of a story maybe you would have to think twice. I am not saying they are right or wrong I am just saying that when you only hear one side of an argument it is easy to make assumptions.

if they werent "paid" then how come more and more kept comming? besides isn't it the construction's company's role to do that? doesnt the government put laws for that? a high percentage of construction company owners tend to take off once they grab the money of building a project, and you all know that, also dont forget that the UAE is a young country, so day by day or year by year new laws are being enforced, to best fit the workers in harsh conditions.

I am not talking about laborers General, I'm talking about ALL expats. Initially expats they were brought in for their knowledge to lay the groundwork for the development of Dubai as it is today. There is nothing wrong with paying an expert for their knowledge and experience and that was necessary as it was not available locally. You know as well as I that locals don't want to work for private enterprise - it's all about working for the government. And because there aren't enough government jobs, which I understand more are going to be created, they don't want, or better yet, have to, work for private enterprise.

Now private enterprise is, once again, being "forced" to hire locals; to maintain a certain percentage of locals in their employ. Now, I ask you: if you own a company and were "forced" to hire people who have no experience/inadequate education,/limited communication skills/no work ethics and demand high salaries how would that sit with you? Companies are going to pull out if they are going to be forced to take on unqualified people. These people become liabilities, which means loss of revenue and companies are out to make money not lose it. These people have a huge negative impact on staff and business itself. It's one thing to lose money due to poor economy, bad business, but to lose it to people that they were made to hire is another story indeed.

and hear this, my grandfather slaughterd cattle for a living after before he worked on a farm and then worked as a store keeper, my friend's father used to be a taxi driver and a construction worker (kooly), my other friend's uncle was a worker for an american oil company in abu dhabi and then as a fisherman, even i used to work in sales and worked as an aircraft fueling operator, so get the idea of locals not being able to do that kind of work, we are men after all. they worked hard before the emirates were united.

I know quite a few locals who have come from very humble backgrounds. And when they talk of their parents their eyes shine and they are so proud of their heritage. The government didn't send them outside to get a higher education, their parents did. Those parents who came from humble backgrounds and provided their children with the education that those children so desired. All to return to Dubai and give back to their country.

most of you dont know how many of our people gave thier lifes fighting for dubai in the days were no one heard of the place, that you didnt know i bet.

I can't speak for others, but I read. I find the history of the region very interesting. It is no different form what any other country went through prior to its development. Dubai is not unique in that regard.

and just because someone is a good buisnessman, it doesnt mean that he or they are more intelligent than other people, they are intelligent in what they know best which is how to do good buisness, someone else will be more intelligent in another line of work or career.

You can have an individual who has no higher education, or maybe limited education, doesn't mean they can't create a business. It is about getting the right people to build it with/for you. Make a vision become a reality. That is exactly what happened with Dubai. It was a vision that became a reality through the application of other peoples knowledge and experience.

so why would i do a much more physical job now with minimum pay when i can do better? right? i and others like me just happen to be so fortunate. correct?

Fortunate in what way? (1) You come from a family that is financially comfortable therefore you don't have to work? Or (2) you worked your way up in a company and proven yourself? If it's (2), that's the way it generally works.

i also never deny the fact the the UAE will still rely on foriegn labor, just like many many other countries.

You must be referring to developing countries. I can't think of any western country that rely on foreign labor.

if there were more female graduates than males then thats just because that statistics has shown that there are more females than males ALL AROUND THE WORLD and not just the UAE, i guess why there are more EXPAT gradutes overall? because in a country of a population of over 5 million, we are only about 800,000. to make it more simple, there are way more expats here than us, and the numbers keep rising, and the local guys that you protrait as being unambitious, have you sat with some of them to actualy know what was going on with thier lifes? or is it just an assumption? i will take that as a stereotypical assumption, i happen to know guys who look and act just the same, but are doctors, lawyers, law inforcing officers and take thier jobs very seriously. if some happen to take thier valuable time for granted, then thats thier problem, isnt it, nothing youn nor i should worry about, reality will slap them in the face and will might just reilize it a bit too late or just in time, right?

Your explanation for female vs. male graduates is, with all due respect, rubbish. Most expats children go back "home" for higher education, which is by far more superior than they would get here, and probably cheaper as well. They obtain degrees from internationally recognized universities. For example: a degree from Cornell University goes alot farther in the world than a degree from the University of Sharjah. I'm sure those doctors, lawyers, etc. that you know have strived for higher education and more likely outside of the UAE.

if life was bad here, how come there are millions and millions of expats work and live here? everyone can go back if they wanted to, but would they?

I'm so tired of hearing that "go back home" talk. If half the expats left, Dubai would crash faster than a New York minute.
-- Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:15 pm --

patience wrote:Here here Bora

General I mean no disrespect to you or your country but I do feel that people should be able to speak out if they are not happy with the way things run. Maybe it is because I was brought up in the West that I feel this way, maybe if I was an Emirati I would feel differently, but there are obviously Emiratis who feel the same and feel the need to speak out. Surely talking about things should not be a crime. Pointing out flaws should not be a crime, asking for change should not be a crime. After all it is only by standing up for what you believe in that brings about change and clearly these people feel that change is needed. The saying is that you cannot please all the people all the time and maybe the government are doing a great job of pleasing most of the people most of the time but unless the fear of speaking out is taken away we will never really know the truth. If as you say the majority of Emirati's are satisfied that things are running fine there should be nothing to fear from a small minority asking for change. But maybe, just maybe if you did have a situation where people were allowed to choose you would find that people would welcome change. The trouble is under a dictatorship you do not get the chance to choose and as long as people are scared of the consequences you never will. As for the treatment of certain sectors of the expat community, well the conditions that some of them live in are appalling and the argument that they live in worse conditions back home maybe true but these people are leaving their countries for a better life, to try and improve their situations after all nobody would want to live in these conditions and as a fellow human being I fail to see how making such an argument allows those in power to sleep at night.

like you said, the majorty of people here are more than happy with how things are going, it was only these 3 guys who are demanding changes, with out the right of representing the whole country, and if you want to express how unhappy you are about how many things are going do so without having to insult the royal family and call them names.

Well said Patience.