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Yes Dear

Let's balance out DDS's very funny youtube of Peters with this one for the 'phobes - (note folks, it isn't a documentary about real terrorists..):



Cheers,
Shafique

It's also interesting that even in the Ricin plot shafique hypes up as showing how Muslims are unfairly targeted resulted in one of the suspects stabbing four police officers, one of them to death, during the raid.



Even then, that suspect was convicted with plotting to poison the public along with killing a law enforcement official.

Wow.

And being released hardly proves anything, all the suspects of the Easter holiday bomb plot were released - and the alleged ringleader still lives in the UK - but the plot has been confirmed as real following the intelligence from the OBL raid.

Posting off topic again when you run out of content Shaf tut, tut, and now we have an Islamophobic dummy!

... no that's worth four ....

Hey, might as well have some humour whilst we wait for some facts/statistics.


Cheers,
Shafique

Yes and you'll be waiting a very long time if you expect me to provide them for you!

shafique wrote::D

Let's balance out DDS's very funny youtube of Peters with this one for the 'phobes - (note folks, it isn't a documentary about real terrorists..):

Cheers,
Shafique

Er I think you've posted that before Shafique. I know you're into repeats but even the BBC doesn't repeat so soon.

Humour aside, I should correct my previous posts which talk about 99 terrorist attacks by non-Muslims in the UK in the year to March 2011.

I should have been more precise, the statistic is actually 99 viable bombs. There were also 72 shootings and 81 'paramilitary style assaults' in addition. That's 252 incidents in the UK in the year to March 2011 (assuming that the 72 shootings aren't included in the 81 assaults - if they are, then the figure is 180 separate incidents).


Source:

The Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) said 99 viable bombs either exploded or were defused by army experts in the year to the end of March, compared with 50 a year ago.
..
As well as bombings there were 72 shooting incidents, 33 casualties resulting from paramilitary style shootings and 81 paramilitary style assaults.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUST ... 2?irpc=932

My bad.

Cheers,
Shafique

No need to apologise, the stats have been there for all to see, and are in fact the reason why the terrorist threat from sectarianism, in Northern Ireland is severe.

Thanks - but I think it best we set the record straight with the numbers and nature of the terrorism by these non-Muslim terrorists.

The various reasons given by terrorists for their terrorism is important in the counter terrorism initiatives. That is why I support the initiatives to tackle the issue within the Muslim community.

I'm just grateful that we don't see the same level of competence or scale of attacks from this group (of Muslim terrorists) as we from the increasing attacks by these other UK terrorists (even increasingly targeting fellow Catholics as highlighted in the article!).

I'm certain that we will eventually get another successful terrorist attack perpetrated by a Muslim - so efforts to thwart these are indeed welcome. However, we shouldn't lose fact that these aren't the only terrorists operating in the UK - not by a long shot.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Thanks - but I think it best we set the record straight with the numbers and nature of the terrorism by these non-Muslim terrorists.

The various reasons given by terrorists for their terrorism is important in the counter terrorism initiatives. That is why I support the initiatives to tackle the issue within the Muslim community.

I'm just grateful that we don't see the same level of competence or scale of attacks from this group (of Muslim terrorists) as we from the increasing attacks by these other UK terrorists (even increasingly targeting fellow Catholics as highlighted in the article!).

I'm certain that we will eventually get another successful terrorist attack perpetrated by a Muslim - so efforts to thwart these are indeed welcome. However, we shouldn't lose fact that these aren't the only terrorists operating in the UK - not by a long shot.

Cheers,
Shafique

And with the published advice on the Home Office website, it would appear that they have considered the threat of sectarian terrorism from NI and set the threat levels to the separate entities of the UK accordingly.

So I'm glad we now agree that the terrorist threat related to NI is ‘Severe’ in NI and ‘Substantial’ in the UK, and the threat from Islamic Extremism is the most significant terrorist threat to the UK.

I've never denied that the 99 viable bombs and other terrorist acts took place in one part of the UK.

My point that when we looked at the UK as a whole, these terrorist acts swamped the others by a considerable margin.

I've not sought to downplay the real threat from Muslim terrorists - but to put it in context. Incidence rates may be very low, but so is the overall threat to individuals from terrorism.

I.e. what does the 'severe' threat actually mean. In NI it demonstrably applies to a situation where terrorists produce 99 viable bombs. In the rest of the UK it seems to mean 'we expect some Muslims who are inspired by Al Qaeda to carry out a terrorist attack' - but thankfully none occured in the same period that the non-Muslim terrorists doubled the number of viable bombs.

Statistics are very useful to put narratives into context.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:I've never denied that the 99 viable bombs and other terrorist acts took place in one part of the UK.

My point that when we looked at the UK as a whole, these terrorist acts swamped the others by a considerable margin.

I've not sought to downplay the real threat from Muslim terrorists - but to put it in context. Incidence rates may be very low, but so is the overall threat to individuals from terrorism.

I.e. what does the 'severe' threat actually mean. In NI it demonstrably applies to a situation where terrorists produce 99 viable bombs. In the rest of the UK it seems to mean 'we expect some Muslims who are inspired by Al Qaeda to carry out a terrorist attack' - but thankfully none occured in the same period that the non-Muslim terrorists doubled the number of viable bombs.

Statistics are very useful to put narratives into context.

Cheers,
Shafique

Well I’m not even going to validate your claims by formulating a response, your peers will decide for themselves whether they agree or disagree with what you claim.

The threat levels are detailed explicitly on the HO website, I’m surprised you need to ask since you’ve been discussing them for the last 5 days and 10 pages!

The statistics you have which are so dear to you are historical and of what is already in the public domain, there is no information or statistics from either the NI office for Anti-Terrorism or the Home Office, it’s sensitive information. Terrorism is about more than exploding bombs as I have repeated so many times now, I’ve even tried sarcasm, suggesting I send an RFI on your behalf to Jonathan Evans in MI5 which also fell on deaf ears.

Do you seriously consider MI5 or any other Government agency will release sensitive intelligence into the public domain for your personal evaluation? Think about what you’re attempting to argue?

Statistics are very useful to put narratives into context.

I agree, but they are not exclusive and you don’t have all of them.

I agree with the last comment - I certainly don't have all the statistics, and am basing my current views on the available statistics.

I'm not asking the intelligence services to give me anything - I'm commenting on publically available information about real terrorist attacks.

In the past, the police and intelligence community have not had to be prompted to release information about terror plots -indeed, perhaps they should have been more restrained - given the proportion that turned out to be more hype than reality. (Yes, the non-existent ricin plot was one of these, but just one of a few).

It seems to be a bit of a leap of logic to now believe that there are more hidden terrorist plots by Muslims than the 200+ actual terror events carried out and listed by the police. But hey - I concede that perhaps the intelligence community is hiding this evidence. Seems a bit remote to me, hence why I'm sticking to the actual evidence that is out there, rather than supposition of what 'could' be hidden away.

Cheers,
Shafique

Then you must realise your argument is flawed due to the admitted lack of data in the public domain.

I disagree with some of your language, 'hiding evidence' is not the same as 'protecting intelligence and it's sources', and the only statistics you are in possession of are specifically relative to NI and have been taken into consideration in the threat levels to the UK and advice on the HO website.

I'm not attempting to change anyone's opinions, I'm pointing to the facts and the specific advice from the British Government, so anyone reading this thread will not be misinformed or misguided by personal interpretation of incomplete data by others.

Au contraire - my point is that the publically available data more than illustrates the relative scale of the terrorist problems in the UK.

I'm sure there are many non-Muslim terrorist plots that are being covertly monitored by the intelligence services - for years there were moles in the IRA, for example.

When comparing, we should compare like with like. The 200+ actual terror threats are in the public domain. This should be compared with the equivalent number that were carried out by Muslims. On that measure, we can assess the 'belief' that Muslim terrorists pose a greater threat than non-Muslim terrorists (noting that this is not something that the HO actually says).

I'm all in favour of people making up their own minds and not being mislead or misinformed. Statistics of actual terror events is just one part of the story, but a pretty basic one IMO. I'm totally ok with people having different interpretations of the available evidence.

Cheers,
Shafique

Speaking of monitoring....

BRITISH police and security agencies are monitoring 30 terrorism plots, Home Secretary Jacqui Smith said in extracts of a newspaper interview released today.

"We now face a threat level that is severe. It's not getting any less, it's actually growing,'' she said in an interview to be published tomorrow in News of the World.

"We task the police and the security agencies with protecting us ... There are 2,000 individuals they are monitoring. There are 200 networks. There are 30 active plots,'' she said.

...

"Since the beginning of 2007, 57 people have been convicted on terrorist plots,'' said Smith.

"Nearly half of those pleaded guilty so this is not some figment of the imagination. It is a real risk and a real issue we need to respond to.''

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/br ... 1116047789

2,000 individuals seems like a lot to me....and I believe they are all Muslim, though I could be wrong about that.

Still, I have not seen any attempt by those presenting 'stats' to explain how small scale bombings pose a threat to national security as mass casualty bomb plots would.

Hence, providing a reason why British authorities view Islamic terrorism as a greater threat than even the Irish.