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sym has no courage, he would hide behind a dumpster, he shoe shines Israeli shoes all day, with a smile, then he goes on DF, anonymous, to spew his venom.

Egyptions, Arameans, Assyrians, Romans, Iranians, Spaniards, Germans and nationalist Europeans/nazis, and today the whole Middle East and Muslim World. This chain of hatred never stopped, in fact it keeps on growing and passing through nations and generations.

If only you know Arabic language, this link above is about a recent open survey titled as "Do you support peace with Israel?" http://www.aljazeera.net/nr/exeres/fe04 ... 183f3e.htm ,,
If you go through the comments, you can see people are drunk of hatred and hostility against the Jewish state of Israel.

Another survery with the title of "How do you think the Israeli/Palestinian conflict end?"
http://www.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/98CB ... voteID=475
Only 4.8% think there might be peace, where as the vast majority (+90%) believe in war against Israel.

Cowards are those who refuse to accept these facts.
Cowards are Jews hiding behind the Zionist lobby in the US, and justify their crimes as self-defence.

Yes, our nations are weak today, but we are gradually rising up, starting by overthrowing the corrupted regimes, and next to wipe out the Jewish state of Israel, just like it has been terminated in the past for 2000 years!

I dare you all to answer my earlier question to Dillon:

What nations (ONLY nations, WITHOUT any political regime invovled) will volunteer to go fight for Israel?
And what nations will volunteer to go fight for Palestine?

Will individuals from France, England, Germany, Russia will ever bother to go sacrifice their lives for Jews? lol

Will individuals from Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Indonesia, Pakistan, Saudi, Morocco, etc. will ever bother sacrifice their lives for the Palestinians?

symmetric wrote:Egyptions, Arameans, Assyrians, Romans, Iranians, Spaniards, Germans and nationalist Europeans/nazis, and today the whole Middle East and Muslim World. This chain of hatred never stopped, in fact it keeps on growing and passing through nations and generations.

If only you know Arabic language, this link above is about a recent open survey titled as "Do you support peace with Israel?" http://www.aljazeera.net/nr/exeres/fe04 ... 183f3e.htm ,,
If you go through the comments, you can see people are drunk of hatred and hostility against the Jewish state of Israel.

Another survery with the title of "How do you think the Israeli/Palestinian conflict end?"
http://www.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/98CB ... voteID=475
Only 4.8% think there might be peace, where as the vast majority (+90%) believe in war against Israel.

Cowards are those who refuse to accept these facts.

I don’t think anyone on this forum is disputing any of the above! No-one is in denial over the views of some, in the Arab world of their Israeli neighbours, what is the common consensus of opinion is that those views are wrong, on every level, and have to change if you want genuine peace in Palestine, and as long as this hatred remains in the hearts of the peoples of the Arab/Muslim world, In my considered opinion, peace will NEVER prevail in the region.

Cowards are Jews hiding behind the Zionist lobby in the US, and justify their crimes as self-defence.

Cowards, are the bigots and hypocrites who spew their hatred from the comfort of their homes outside the troubled region, expecting others to fight for their lost cause.

Yes, our nations are weak today, but we are gradually rising up, starting by overthrowing the corrupted regimes, and next to wipe out the Jewish state of Israel, just like it has been terminated in the past for 2000 years!

I dare you all to answer my earlier question to Dillon:

What nations (ONLY nations, WITHOUT any political regime invovled) will volunteer to go fight for Israel?
And what nations will volunteer to go fight for Palestine?

Will individuals from France, England, Germany, Russia will ever bother to go sacrifice their lives for Jews? lol

Will individuals from Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Indonesia, Pakistan, Saudi, Morocco, etc. will ever bother sacrifice their lives for the Palestinians?

Unfortunately Symm, your question is flawed, that’s why it will never be answered, for as I am sure you are more than aware, politicians rule our everyday lives and the simple fact is, whether you want to accept this or not, Israel IS protected by UN mandate. Interesting though, in your question I believe you will get more Palestinian clandestine, underground support from England and France, than you will supporting Israel!

I actually agree with what Dillon said above except for the last part.

I think that the West has become quite anti-Muslim thanks to the Islamic terrorists and fear-mongering by the conservatives who try to paint all of Islam as extreme. If citizens from ME countries formed an army to wipe out Israel you can be guaranteed that citizens from the West would sign up for military action to protect Israel and prevent the genocide.

The West has become aware of the threat from Islamic Extremists, as I posted recently in the Terrorism in NI thread, contrary to Shaf’s conclusions, there is a bigger threat from Islamist Extremism in Great Britain than there is from NI. This is not fear-mongering, it’s a real threat backed up by real intelligence. The threat status is the same today.

dubai-politics-talk/bombings-terrorists-double-t46318-45.html#p375752

I understand the belief that the thread from Jihadist numpties is the most serious terrorist threat in the UK. I just point out that the stats tell a different story.

This is not to minimise the good efforts to stamp out the numpties and wannabe numpties - more power to these efforts. In a way, I'm glad that the 'jihadists' by and large seem to be numpties - God help us if they get to be as proficient at killing as the guys in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq etc (or indeed, as proficient in bombmaking as the ones who made the 99 real bombs in NI last year!)

Cheers,
Shafique

What do your stats say when you consider NI as a separate entity to Great Britain, as the Home Office of the Government of the United Kingdom rightfully do for terrorist threat purposes?

The official statistics have really nothing to do with me - so I wouldn't call them 'my statistics'.

My point is that there were 99 real bombs made by UK terrorists last year who were not Muslim - but the perception is that Islamic terrorists pose the greatest threat.

Has the United Kingdom kicked out Northern Ireland recently??

(BTW - I actually started with FBI stats which showed Islamic terrorism was a minute fraction of all terrorism over in the USA, then moved to Europol stats which showed the equivalent stats for the EU as a whole - same message).

But let me repeat - I have no issue with measures aimed at tackling Muslim terrorism. Just don't ask me to blindly believe rhetoric that is not supported by some verifiable stats.

Cheers,
Shafique

So after succesfully avoiding my earlier question, I''ll repeat it

What do your stats say when you consider NI as a separate entity to Great Britain, as the Home Office of the Government of the United Kingdom rightfully do for terrorist threat purposes?

I guess I was too subtle.

NI is part of the UK. I referred to the threat of terrorism in the UK. Your question is moot.

Why change the goal posts? I've been referring to terrorism threat in the UK (and previously Europe and USA) - and quoting stats relating to these incidence rates.

(And besides, we seem to be totally off the topic of UN recognition of Palestine now)

Cheers,
Shafique

So after avoiding my question for a second time, and responding with more smoke and mirrors, I guess I’ll leave the thread now, with evidence of Shaf calling a ‘spade a spade’, a quality he has recently been attributed with, it would appear he has his own particular brand of spade and interpretation of official Government statistics.

Back on topic, unless there is a significant change in the mindset of the Palestinian Arabs, and the ignorant supremacist peoples who keep pushing their buttons, Palestine will never be recognised by the UN.

Well, there's a clear prediction from Dillon - Palestine won't be recognised by the UN unless there is a significant change in the mindset of Palestinian Arabs. Perhaps you're right - but the momentum seems to be behind the Palestinian diplomatic efforts, with only Israel and the USA it appears who are afraid of this recognition.

As for statistics relating to terror threats in the UK, Europe, USA etc - that belongs to another thread.

Cheers,
Shafique

Dillon wrote:
I don’t think anyone on this forum is disputing any of the above! No-one is in denial over the views of some, in the Arab world of their Israeli neighbours, what is the common consensus of opinion is that those views are wrong, on every level, and have to change if you want genuine peace in Palestine, and as long as this hatred remains in the hearts of the peoples of the Arab/Muslim world, In my considered opinion, peace will NEVER prevail in the region.

Peace was NEVER a genuine option, for both sides.

Dillon wrote:
Cowards, are the bigots and hypocrites who spew their hatred from the comfort of their homes outside the troubled region, expecting others to fight for their lost cause.

We don't need to justify our ways of supporting our brothers in Palestine. Our nations are rising up, the Arab spring has already inspired people in Spain. Thats how affective the are.
Cowards are fully armed Jews shooting unarmed Palestinians, refusing to let refugees (natives) come back to their homeland fearing the dramatic demographic change that will occur.
Cowards are those building walls around their boarders. Cowards are those who massacred innocent civilians in Lebanese villages such as Qana. Cowards are Jews who fear from justice

Dillon wrote:Unfortunately Symm, your question is flawed, that’s why it will never be answered, for as I am sure you are more than aware, politicians rule our everyday lives and the simple fact is, whether you want to accept this or not, Israel IS protected by UN mandate. Interesting though, in your question I believe you will get more Palestinian clandestine, underground support from England and France, than you will supporting Israel!

My question is very valid, and you failed to answer because you know it already.
Why would a German or a Spaniard ever scarifice his short life to go fight for Israel? No good reason.
Where as on the other hand, we've already seen a million-man march of Egyptions ready to liberate Palestine!
And you already know there are millions around the entire Middle East and Muslim World that are willing to volunteer to fight Israel, for nationalistic purposes, and atleast for religious duty to stop Jews from attacking Beit al maqdes.

-- Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:34 pm --

kanelli wrote:I actually agree with what Dillon said above except for the last part.

I think that the West has become quite anti-Muslim thanks to the Islamic terrorists and fear-mongering by the conservatives who try to paint all of Islam as extreme. If citizens from ME countries formed an army to wipe out Israel you can be guaranteed that citizens from the West would sign up for military action to protect Israel and prevent the genocide.

Protect a genocide? LOOOOL !!!
Christian Europeans, specially Catholics and along with the nationalist ones, and the Nazis contributed the most in the genocide against the Jews in Europe! 5 million Jews were burned/slaughtered !!

The Middle East, and Muslim World has become anti-West due to the era of colonalism and its brutality.
For instance, one million martyrs in Algeria under the French colonalism. What do you really expect from Algerians to have in mind?

Europeans will never sign in to go fight the Middle East for the sake of Jews, not on a million years.
The only time Europeans volunteered by individuals to fight in the Middle East against Muslims was during the crusader period, and it was due to the church's strong influence promising people heaven.

But today, Europe is secular, and very less respect to the church, as per the new concept of "freedom of speech" and "democracy" that lacks manners. Why would any damn German for instance go fight for the sake of the Jews in the Middle East? What will that German benefit?

A Muslim on the other hand, strongly believe in his religious duty to keep Beit almaqdes secure, even the non-conservative ones will have strong nationalistic feeling, due to the religous backgrounds that will always be present.

symmetric wrote:Why would a German or a Spaniard ever scarifice his short life to go fight for Israel? No good reason.

Well I'd guess it would be for the same reason why British, French, Italian, Qatari, UAE, American, Spanish, and Greek amongst others, are fighting for Libya today? what do you think?

symmetric wrote: Our nations are rising up

Yep, in the mean time Arabs are too busy killing Arabs. As always.

Dillon wrote:

symmetric wrote:Why would a German or a Spaniard ever scarifice his short life to go fight for Israel? No good reason.

Well I'd guess it would be for the same reason why British, French, Italian, Qatari, UAE, American, Spanish, and Greek amongst others, are fighting for Libya today? what do you think?

You got a problem understanding questions dear? Wear your glasses Mr. I'm too young to die.

Q: What nations (ONLY nations, WITHOUT any political regime invovled) will volunteer to go fight for Israel?

The current situation in Libya does not fall into the rule of my question.

Try again : )

-- Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:03 pm --

Flying Dutchman wrote:

symmetric wrote: Our nations are rising up

Yep, in the mean time Arabs are too busy killing Arabs. As always.

Just like how Europeans killed each other to re-shape themselves to the current situation that you're proud of.
The Middle East is going through a similar procedure. Logic

Just like how Europeans killed each other to re-shape themselves to the current situation that you're proud of.

take him easy Symm, FD didn't read much in history, beyond 2000....

-- Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:29 pm --

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f23RWm3m25k&feature

Mahmoud04 wrote:

Just like how Europeans killed each other to re-shape themselves to the current situation that you're proud of.

take him easy Symm, FD didn't read much in history, beyond 2000....

-- Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:29 pm --

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f23RWm3m25k&feature

We will always find Jews who support the Palestinians against Israel's continuous brutal crimes, but you'll never see Arabs protesting to support Israel at any case. This makes the obvious more obvious, that the Palestinians have been going through a continuous holocaust by the zionist Jewish state of Israel.
Even this Jewi was touched and rejected the crocodile tears, still some dogs here bark towards the wrong direction.

All respect to Dr. Norman for rejecting this ugly form of injustice.

Haaretz has released 'secret cables' which detail Israel's plan of attack to the diplomatic efforts at the UN. They seem a bit paranoid to me.. but you be the judge.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/ne ... d-1.366852


The comments are quite interesting too, eg:

Marcus Silverman:

I've never really understood the Israeli objection to Palestinian statehood. If a unilateral declaration of independence was the right path for Israel, then there should be no objections if the Palestinians do the same. Perhaps the Israelis fear a Palestinian state based on 1967 borders would require them to withdraw the settlers from the illegal settlements in occupied Palestinian territory. That might be the price tag the Israelis will ultimately have to pay for their arrogance and greed - compliance with International Law.

and


End of story.You know what you get when you take someone's land for no money? 63 years of war! You'd better get this settled while you still can.

MIKE 10.06.1103:21
If someone's land was taken, give it back or pay just compensation. The UN, (the entity that took land from Arabs and gave it to Jews to remedy problems caused by the Germans), needs to to invoke something like the legal Doctrine of Eminent Domain and award Just Compensati­­­­on in exchange for a Release of Claims to those who lost property. At the same time we need to draw some sensible borders enabling the Palestinia­­­­ns to establish a state. As far as the Jewish settlers go, they should be permitted to stay where they are. If they find themselves in Palestine they'll be Palestinia­­n citizens. Jewish Palestinia­­ns. Israel has Arabs. Palestine can have Jews. It's the same thing. No artificial borders for them. The fact is, once the settlers come to grips with this, most of them will leave voluntaril­­y. If some zealots chose to stay and become citizens of Palestine let them. Finally, if in Israel there is land that can be reasonably retaken by formerly displaced occupants then, instead of monetary compensati­on, restore to them. If they take it back they get to live there or sell it or use it in some reasonable way as per their choice.


Indeed.