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Some more positive news in Israel - thousands of Israelis marched in favour of a Palestinian state based on the 1967 borders.

It is a shame that in the occupied Golan Heights the Israeli occupying forces chose to shoot at unarmed protestors.. but that's another story for another thread.

Thousands march in Tel Aviv in support of Palestinian state based on 1967 borders
By Chaim Levinson

Around 5,000 people took part in a march in central Tel Aviv on Saturday evening supporting the establishment of a Palestinian state based on the 1967 borders.
..
Numerous leftist political parties and groups - including Labor, Meretz, Hadash, the Derech faction of Kadima, the National Left, Peace Now and Gush Shalom - participated in the march.

Marchers held signs reading "Palestinian state - An Israeli interest", "Bibi, recognize the Palestinians" and "Yes, we KEN [which means 'yes' in Hebrew]", among others.
..
The leftist march was organized under the title "Netanyahu said no - We say yes to a Palestinian state" following the prime minister's recent visit to the U.S. during which differences of opinion were exposed between Netanyahu and U.S. President Barack Obama on the issue of the borders of a future Palestinian state.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/th ... s-1.365923

Do you think Israelis are catching on to Bibi???

^Unfortunately, I don't think so. From what I'm reading, Israel remains quite polarised - those who support Bibi's stance, those who think he's too right-wing and those who think he's not right-wing enough

I posted this for balance - not all Israelis are interested in continuing the military occupation of land captured in 1967 - Palestinian and Syrian land.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Some more positive news in Israel - thousands of Israelis marched in favour of a Palestinian state based on the 1967 borders.

It is a shame that in the occupied Golan Heights the Israeli occupying forces chose to shoot at unarmed protestors.. but that's another story for another thread.

If protesters dont want to get shot at, why don't they stay on their side of the border, i am sure
if it was the other way around syran forces would shoot even more

Thanks for your views herve.

But you did notice that this thread was about the positive march in Tel Aviv by Israelis in support of ending the military occupation of land captured in 1967 (with some land swaps, I guess)?

The Golan Heights are also part of this military occupation, so it is relevant.

The fact you are ok with the occupation soldiers firing on unarmed protestors is not surprising.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Thanks for your views herve.

But you did notice that this thread was about the positive march in Tel Aviv by Israelis in support of ending the military occupation of land captured in 1967 (with some land swaps, I guess)?

The Golan Heights are also part of this military occupation, so it is relevant.

The fact you are ok with the occupation soldiers firing on unarmed protestors is not surprising.

Cheers,
Shafique

Like I said, we have witnessed Israelis protesting in favor for the Palestinians, but we never saw any Palestinian or other neigbhouring people in the region protesting in favor of the Israelis. Only tells you that those criminals understand nothing but language of force. Those who justify Israeli's crimes don't deserve to live.

A lot of people have no shame following Syrian progandanda I notice. The Syrian regime kills hundreds of protesters at will. When Jews are involved though the rules of the game change.

Flying Dutchman wrote:A lot of people have no shame following Syrian progandanda I notice. The Syrian regime kills hundreds of protesters at will. When Jews are involved though the rules of the game change.

just a general rule, away from the subject, I can hit my kids and I would kill who hit them...

Flying Dutchman wrote:A lot of people have no shame following Syrian progandanda I notice. The Syrian regime kills hundreds of protesters at will. When Jews are involved though the rules of the game change.

Only traitor Shias and hypocrite regimes favour the Syrian regime, those stray dogs of Hizballah and Iranian Shia clergy. Our nations do NOT support the Syrian regime, and we consider them pro-Israelis anyways.

Syrian tycoon Rami Makhlouf warned Israel of instability if the regime of his cousin Bashar Assad falls.
That's for sure, because if the Syrian nation had its real word, then Golan heights wouldn't still be under the Israeli occupation, and Israel will still be involved in a real war. But Rami Makhloof just sumarized it all for us to admitt that the current Assad's regime is just guarding Israel.

Brutality of Syrian regime is no different than the Israelis.
Once the Assad collapse, Israel will be a main target.

-- Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:11 pm --

Mahmoud04 wrote:

Flying Dutchman wrote:A lot of people have no shame following Syrian progandanda I notice. The Syrian regime kills hundreds of protesters at will. When Jews are involved though the rules of the game change.

just a general rule, away from the subject, I can hit my kids and I would kill who hit them...

Mahmood, do you know whats the problem? The problem is that the West will never understand our mentality, and will always come up with assumptions of their own immagination.

We are different than them, our concepts and life principles are just different, and it will never change.
Terms of democracy that we got existed ever since the Shura style with the rise of Islam, and as per today's current situation, still Islam will always be part of our life aspects. Even when Turkey for instance fell for secularsm regimes, it started to approach Islam again, with fresh new generations who strongly refuse to give it up. Even the current elected party has conservative Islamic backgrounds.

Likewise with Tunisia, Hijab and prayers were harshly banned and treated accordingly, and now people after overthrowing BenAli's regime revived the Islamic life style aspects with Hijab and prayers open for all as per the wish of the Tunisian nation.

People are moderate in general, but when someone abuse/mistreat them, they'll react with extrimism.

Western democracy is DIFFERENT than the Eastern democracy.
We don't completely isolate religion from our life-aspects (including politics).
We already are strongly attached to our cultures and we suit oursevles with it.
Nothing is perfect, and there will always be issues to debate and argue about, whether it was our way or their way.

I totally agree with you on this Symm, and thats the difference between culture and believe...
culture changes by time, western culture now is not the same as it was few hundreds years back, and its said the old was dark ages, isn't it?

for believes they don't change by time, could be affected by culture and circumstances, but will always exist and be around, and I guess that what makes Muslims related in a way or another despite of any problems happening between them, but you still find ppl are strongly connected.

and here I will state an example, although Bin Laden had a wrong way of dealing with problems (in my opinion), but still he left his life, money, almost everything behind to help (his way) others... and history is a rich source of such examples,
I guess you guys know nothing about the MENA history, you just mention the crap examples and actions and stick to it...

Aah I see, so unless you’re born there, nobody knows anything about the MENA history or the mindset of the people from the MENA region,

So the argument you’re both now putting forward is that you think differently to everyone else and if you weren’t born in the MENA region you will never understand us?

That is such a pathetically weak argument it’s positively hilarious!

Mahmoud04 wrote:I can hit my kids

In my book hitting kids is a sign of extreme weakness.

Dillon wrote:Aah I see, so unless you’re born there, nobody knows anything about the MENA history or the mindset of the people from the MENA region,

So the argument you’re both now putting forward is that you think differently to everyone else and if you weren’t born in the MENA region you will never understand us?

That is such a pathetically weak argument it’s positively hilarious!

You hate to admit this fact, so you chose to act like a joker instead

shafique wrote:Thanks for your views herve.

But you did notice that this thread was about the positive march in Tel Aviv by Israelis in support of ending the military occupation of land captured in 1967 (with some land swaps, I guess)?

The Golan Heights are also part of this military occupation, so it is relevant.

The fact you are ok with the occupation soldiers firing on unarmed protestors is not surprising.

Cheers,
Shafique

Anywhere in the world, a crowd trying to cross a border, smashing and cutting barbwires would meet with bullets. The UN said Israel had the right to defend its borders.
Try that in the UAE, Saudi, Iran, North Korea, china, even in europe. you get warnings tostop , if you dont; you get shot, a border is a border, it s sovereign, period, you dont like it..... stay home, or better why dont you join them.
Back when i was in the service, i crossed the border between East and West, they had automatic machine guns.
All this is beside the fact that Israel WON the war after Syria's aggression, since when the loser has any rights. And what palestinians are doing in the Golan anyways?
So forget about your 67 borders and get a life, Israel will stay the way it is now.

symmetric wrote:

Dillon wrote:Aah I see, so unless you’re born there, nobody knows anything about the MENA history or the mindset of the people from the MENA region,

So the argument you’re both now putting forward is that you think differently to everyone else and if you weren’t born in the MENA region you will never understand us?

That is such a pathetically weak argument it’s positively hilarious!

You hate to admit this fact, so you chose to act like a joker instead

What hate to admit that we're not living 600 odd years behind everyone else and are more 'evolved'! Oh please! Yes, you think differently, because you're incapable of seeing any other view point, other than your own!

Chocoholic wrote:What hate to admit that we're not living 600 odd years behind everyone else and are more 'evolved'! Oh please! Yes, you think differently, because you're incapable of seeing any other view point, other than your own!

This is exactly what I'm talking about.
Arrogant westerns living in the Middle East but fail to respect the Middle Eastern culture.

Its absolutely rude to judge other's culture so negatively, specially when you're living among them.
I totally dislike it when I see Muslims in the West not respecting the Western culture as they should.

Did I ever judge your western life-style? No. Then shut the fcuk up Chocs.

There are no universal human rights. There is not even an universal dictionary, as innocent, civilian, freedom, justice or terrorism etc. mean completely things to different group of peoples.

Agreed

symmetric wrote:Its absolutely rude to judge other's culture so negatively.

You mean like judging them so harshly you wish them all fed as steaks to your dogs and wiping them off the face of the Earth? you mean that kind of rude Judgement?

symmetric wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:What hate to admit that we're not living 600 odd years behind everyone else and are more 'evolved'! Oh please! Yes, you think differently, because you're incapable of seeing any other view point, other than your own!

This is exactly what I'm talking about.
Arrogant westerns living in the Middle East but fail to respect the Middle Eastern culture.

Its absolutely rude to judge other's culture so negatively, specially when you're living among them.
I totally dislike it when I see Muslims in the West not respecting the Western culture as they should.

Did I ever judge your western life-style? No. Then shut the fcuk up Chocs.

Why don't you give everyone a break and stop spouting your rubbish! I've lived in the ME over a third of my life ta very much, so I get to see both sides of the fence. You only have your one sided biased view.

You're the judgmental one Symm, not us!

Plus not agreeing with you, doesn't make a person judgemental. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but sadly you can't handle anything that doesn't fall in line with your own.

In my book hitting kids is a sign of extreme weakness.

do u get the difference between an example and a fact!!! I was giving an example FD, again its my mistake, I knew no place for IQ here

Aah I see, so unless you’re born there, nobody knows anything about the MENA history or the mindset of the people from the MENA region,

well, of course I didn't say nobody knows anything about MENA history, and of course being from the middle east will give a better understanding of the people and their culture and everything, any 18 years old will know more than most of members who copy & paste from google or other websites, again no place for IQ here... in addition what our media shows us is different from what western media show you, and again I am not generalizing, but its a fact that needs no bla bla bla...

So forget about your 67 borders and get a life, Israel will stay the way it is now.

agree till the power balance change...

There are no universal human rights. There is not even an universal dictionary, as innocent, civilian, freedom, justice or terrorism etc. mean completely things to different group of peoples.

Why didn't you tell this to G W Bush FD, could have saved the world a lot... but what to say, there is OIL...

Why don't you give everyone a break and stop spouting your rubbish! I've lived in the ME over a third of my life ta very much,

and we have to admit that you have a better understanding of the region than those who lived here for few years and only eating & criticizing, right Choco?
and still we can't say you have as good understanding of the ppl as much as someone who's born and lives here, right?

even in each country ppl are kinda different in different cities, and different culture as well....
BTW, MENA= Middle East & NORTH AFRICA..

The point is, certain people seem to be very blinkered in their views and don't look and see another side of the coin.

Pfff don't bring Bush into it, that guy was a prize idiot who made up excuses to cause mass war!

Oh so you have to be BORN somewhere to understand it do you? So what about all these people who were 'born' in one place then moved and grew up in another? Flawed thinking on that front I'm afraid.

I was reading about the Israeli governments plans to move 30,000 bedouin people - shocking and wrong and shouldn't be allowed.

Oh I'm sorry did I shock you with that opinion?

I am not shocked Choco, don't worry
again I am not saying

you have to be BORN somewhere to understand it do you?

but I am saying IF YOU ARE BORN SOMEWHERE and LIVED in it, learnt its language, went to its school, clubs, cities, cafe, met with poor, rich, middle level, etc, you will definitely know it BETTTTTTTTTTTTTTER than any foreigner,..
I was fed up with more than 3 subjects at my school, one is Egyptian history, Islamic history, patriotism, ARABIC nationalism, and more about some parts of MENA and its history, do u want to say that SOMEONE lived here for 30 or 40 years knows this stuff :s, understanding how to live in MENA is not the same as understanding what is ppl in the MENA....

-- Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:16 am --

and someone like you who lived third their life in here will definitely understand people than some visitors, or someone lived here for 10 years...

I don't know, there are many people in this world who have no idea what the heck is going on in their own back yard, let alone the rest of the world. Again, slightly flawed thinking as it's down to what someone 'wants' to learn.

symmetric wrote: Western democracy is DIFFERENT than the Eastern democracy.
We don't completely isolate religion from our life-aspects (including politics).
We already are strongly attached to our cultures and we suit oursevles with it.
Nothing is perfect, and there will always be issues to debate and argue about, whether it was our way or their way.

There is only one definition of Democracy sym, either there is democracy or there is not, you can always cook your own definition with the quality that you fit you best: "hypocrisy" but you fool only your own kind.

the answer is: IRAQ ....