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Bora Bora · Jun 04, 2011

Seven month old baby dies due to the recklessness of both parents. They can afford to live on the Palm, but can't afford to buy a baby seat?? Prestige over safety?

What is interesting is that the father, who caused the child's death is out on bail for humanitarian/compassionate reasons. His driving was reckless: speeding, lost control of his car, could have put other people in danger yet he gets bail and its referred to as an "accidental death"?? Under the circumstances it's called manslaughter by gross negligence.

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/crime ... d-1.817111

The 31-year-old father has been released on bail on humanitarian [further in the article it is referred to as compassion] grounds following the accident which led to the death of the baby girl, who was seated in her 28-year-old mother's lap in the front seat of the vehicle, according to Chief Traffic Prosecutor Salah Bu Farousha, Head of Dubai Traffic Public Prosecution (TPP).

See link for full article.

Chocoholic · Jun 04, 2011

Yes I saw this, when will people ever learn!

I might get flamed for this next comment, but really don't care. Again, I cannot stand the blatant hypocrisy of this place. Not so long ago an Emirati woman killed TWO of her children - exactly the same circumstances, she was speeding, lost control etc etc. She had 7 people in the car, 4 children and 2 maids and yet the authorities 'might' see if she'll face charges.

Until the authorities get serious about imposing fines for not having children strapped in, in car seats etc and enforcing sentences for causing the deaths of youngsters, nothing is going to change.

Bethsmum · Jun 04, 2011

While I totally agree that children must be strapped into child seats and not carried on parents laps in the vehicle, I can't see what benefit locking the father up would achieve. I would think it punishment enough that his child has died and that his wife is injured. What more would be achieved by putting him in prison?

Laws about speeding, using mobile phones when driving and child safety seats should be more strictly enforced in the first place.

Chocoholic · Jun 04, 2011

Well for the fact that he was speeding and driving wrecklessly which was the cause of the accident, then yes he should face a tough penalty. But as I said, this has to be across the board and for everyone.

Bora Bora · Jun 04, 2011

Bethsmum wrote:While I totally agree that children must be strapped into child seats and not carried on parents laps in the vehicle, I can't see what benefit locking the father up would achieve. I would think it punishment enough that his child has died and that his wife is injured. What more would be achieved by putting him in prison?

Laws about speeding, using mobile phones when driving and child safety seats should be more strictly enforced in the first place.

If releasing him because he would have to live with the fact that he killed his child and injured his wife, then you might as well release everyone else who killed someone as a result of (1) carelessness, (2) recklessness and (3) no thought to the safety of passengers, not to mention if he had hit another car and someone died, and let them live with the fact that they caused a death. Why should anyone get a pass for causing a death or deaths base on (1), (2) and (3) above?

Making the use of a childseat and seatbelts is not MANDATORY in the UAE. Even if it were to become law, how effective would that law be seeing as people still drive and talk on mobile phones??, which is dangerous.

What is MANDATORY and selectively enforced is the "kissing in public law", not exactly life threatening, but found to be offensive to the sensibilities of others. If they put as much effort in making society aware of the need for childseats and buckling up and making it mandatory that childseats and seatbelts be used as they do the kissing in public law, there would be fewer accidents and deaths on the road. It would also serve as a reminder to those westerners who once had to obey the law in their own country and can't be bothered to continue the practice in a country that doesn't make it law.

Bethsmum · Jun 04, 2011

Bora, if someone killed a member of my family through reckless driving, then yes, I would want him jailed. But this man killed his own child. Now I'm presuming he is a normal individual here, surely what punishment could be worse? I know I would have difficulty living with mtyself, if it was me. As a normal individual, he will have learnt his lesson and I think releasing him on compassionate grounds is the right thing to do.

The ME needs to play catch up with their driving habits. I'm sure it will come in time. I think the heat plays havoc with people's personalities. They just need to chill out.

Bora Bora · Jun 04, 2011

Bethsmum wrote:Bora, if someone killed a member of my family through reckless driving, then yes, I would want him jailed. But this man killed his own child. Now I'm presuming he is a normal individual here, surely what punishment could be worse? I know I would have difficulty living with mtyself, if it was me. As a normal individual, he will have learnt his lesson and I think releasing him on compassionate grounds is the right thing to do.

The ME needs to play catch up with their driving habits. I'm sure it will come in time. I think the heat plays havoc with people's personalities. They just need to chill out.

Who is to say "he will have learnt his lesson"? How many people go to jail and become repeat offenders?? Let him feel remorse in jail. What kind of message does it send that you can go free only if you kill a member of your family through recklessness and disregard for safety. I'm sure he didn't wake up that morning thinking that was how he was going to start his day, and he obviously wasn't thinking about his family when he got in that car. As far as I'm concerned, the wife will have to take responsibility as well for not seeing that her child was safe.

Are you saying that if a family member was killed by another family member, the famiyl member responsible should get a pass, but if a family member dies as a result of a non-family member causing the death in the same manner, then the non-family member should go to jail?? Who is to say that the non-family member would not feel just as much remorse if it was not intentional??? If you cause the death of someone by accident, either family or not, wouldn't that stay with someone for the rest of their life? I know it is something that I would have to live with every day knowing that I took a life by being thoughtless, reckless and showing a disregard for safety and put people in a precarious situation, at my hand. In addition, there would always be the fact that a family would suffer every day from that loss.

Chocoholic · Jun 04, 2011

Totally agree BB, they should be punished no matter what, but as I said earlier is has to be across the board and not allowing some people to be let off due to their nationality or whatever.

Sadly BM, what you fail to understand is that many of these people go about their lives with an 'Inshallah' attitude or 'it's God's will', which basically means they don't hold themselves responsible for their own actions! Sorry but yes they are accountable and should be punished.

uaekid · Jun 04, 2011

Bora Bora wrote:Seven month old baby dies due to the recklessness of both parents. They can afford to live on the Palm, but can't afford to buy a baby seat?? Prestige over safety?

What is interesting is that the father, who caused the child's death is out on bail for humanitarian/compassionate reasons. His driving was reckless: speeding, lost control of his car, could have put other people in danger yet he gets bail and its referred to as an "accidental death"?? Under the circumstances it's called manslaughter by gross negligence.

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/crime ... d-1.817111

The 31-year-old father has been released on bail on humanitarian [further in the article it is referred to as compassion] grounds following the accident which led to the death of the baby girl, who was seated in her 28-year-old mother's lap in the front seat of the vehicle, according to Chief Traffic Prosecutor Salah Bu Farousha, Head of Dubai Traffic Public Prosecution (TPP).

See link for full article.

have you seen the full article ??????????

it states that he was "released on bail " which means it is not over daaaaa
those are " accidents " , it happens. haven't you done one driving or at home ? or are you one of those flawless ones .
I agree there should be a harsh punishment for such acts , but imagine a father who cant attend his own child funeral , don't be this much heartless bitc... its enough what he is going throw .

Bora Bora · Jun 04, 2011

uaekid wrote:
Bora Bora wrote:Seven month old baby dies due to the recklessness of both parents. They can afford to live on the Palm, but can't afford to buy a baby seat?? Prestige over safety?

What is interesting is that the father, who caused the child's death is out on bail for humanitarian/compassionate reasons. His driving was reckless: speeding, lost control of his car, could have put other people in danger yet he gets bail and its referred to as an "accidental death"?? Under the circumstances it's called manslaughter by gross negligence.

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/crime ... d-1.817111

The 31-year-old father has been released on bail on humanitarian [further in the article it is referred to as compassion] grounds following the accident which led to the death of the baby girl, who was seated in her 28-year-old mother's lap in the front seat of the vehicle, according to Chief Traffic Prosecutor Salah Bu Farousha, Head of Dubai Traffic Public Prosecution (TPP).

See link for full article.

have you seen the full article ??????????

it states that he was "released on bail " which means it is not over daaaaa
those are " accidents " , it happens. haven't you done one driving or at home ? or are you one of those flawless ones .
I agree there should be a harsh punishment for such acts , but imagine a father who cant attend his own child funeral , don't be this much heartless bitc... its enough what he is going throw .

Not being a heartless bitc.......being realistic!!! I have been in accidents, the difference being I was not the cause of them. One was due to a woman who was backing out of a spot, driving a huge 4X4 that she had no right driving!, and wasn't looking in her review or side mirrors - and by her own admission said: "I didn't see you", even tho someone was honking their horn to alert her that she was about to hit someone. Second accident: a "driver" in a lane that was a forced turn to the left, crossed over a solid line because he realized it would take him in the opposite direction that he wanted to go and sideswiped the rear of my car. This was in Satwa. In both instances I was wearing my seatbelt and was given the green slip.

I don't speed, I always buckle up and if there are passengers in my car, my car doesn't move until they are buckled up - not because I worry about my own driving skills, but worry about the other idiots on the road. I could probably outdrive you anyday Kid.

You need to re-read the article to absorb why the accident was fatal. If his child was in a childseat, buckled up in the backseat she would probably be alive. Apparently the child ended up being an "airbag" for his wife. There were two stupid adults in the car, not one.

I know its not over Kid. Why wasn't the same courtesy given to the Australian (I believe he was Australian) when he accidently ran over his daughter?? He went straight to jail, and that was truly an accident.

KeithL · Jun 04, 2011

How do you carry a baby in a taxi?

Child seat?

Bora Bora · Jun 04, 2011

KeithL wrote:How do you carry a baby in a taxi?

Child seat?

There are baby prams designed where the childseat rests in the frame of the pram and is removeable for travel. When removed from the frame, it becomes a proper childseat where the child is strapped in and the safety belt is used to secure the childseat.

uaekid · Jun 04, 2011

[/quote]

have you seen the full article ??????????

it states that he was "released on bail " which means it is not over daaaaa
those are " accidents " , it happens. haven't you done one driving or at home ? or are you one of those flawless ones .
I agree there should be a harsh punishment for such acts , but imagine a father who cant attend his own child funeral , don't be this much heartless bitc... its enough what he is going throw .[/quote]

Not being a heartless bitc.......being realistic!!! I have been in accidents, the difference being I was not the cause of them. One was due to a woman who was backing out of a spot, driving a huge 4X4 that she had no right driving!, and wasn't looking in her review or side mirrors - and by her own admission said: "I didn't see you", even tho someone was honking their horn to alert her that she was about to hit someone. Second accident: a "driver" in a lane that was a forced turn to the left, crossed over a solid line because he realized it would take him in the opposite direction that he wanted to go and sideswiped the rear of my car. This was in Satwa. In both instances I was wearing my seatbelt and was given the green slip.

I don't speed, I always buckle up and if there are passengers in my car, my car doesn't move until they are buckled up - not because I worry about my own driving skills, but worry about the other idiots on the road. I could probably outdrive you anyday Kid.

You need to re-read the article to absorb why the accident was fatal. If his child was in a childseat, buckled up in the backseat she would probably be alive. Apparently the child ended up being an "airbag" for his wife. There were two stupid adults in the car, not one.

I know its not over Kid. Why wasn't the same courtesy given to the Australian (I believe he was Australian) when he accidentally ran over his daughter?? He went straight to jail, and that was truly an accident.[/quote]

so you are a flawless one , its good i finally found one of you .
I'm not talking about him being guilty or not , the issue here is him being out for humanity reasons which is acceptable to ppl who have mercy in the heart, its not like he meant for it to happen.
I don't know about the Australasian guy of your but this one is an Asian guy ... Evey case is diff and judges have diff views .

Bora Bora · Jun 04, 2011

Well then the courts/judges need to get on the same page. Of course he didn't mean it to happen, but if he wasn't speeding there would not have been an accident. If he had a child seat in all likelihood the child would not have died. As a father, do you speed with your children in the car? Do you drive different when you children or wife or mother or father are in the car than you do when you are alone or with one of your buddies? This child's death was senseless and could have been avoided. If anything, he should have been able to attend the funeral of his child, then returned to jail and wait for his case to come up.

sage & onion · Jun 04, 2011

Its Murder, simple as that, a child has no control over what happens with its life in such situations.

Chocoholic · Jun 05, 2011

sage & onion wrote:Its Murder, simple as that, a child has no control over what happens with its life in such situations.

Pretty much. Children rely on adults to keep them safe. As BB says if the child was in a car seat and properly buckled up, she'd probably still be alive. who in their right mind holds a baby on their lap in the front seat? If anything happens the child is basically a human airbag and will sustain terrible injuries and probably death.

My niece is 3 years old and she will refuse to get in the car unless her child seat is there, or refuse to allow the car to go until she is safely strapped in!

kanelli · Jun 05, 2011

Such a sad story

I think there should be a punishment to set an example, but really the death of the child is the deepest punishment. Keith L, lots of people end up travelling in taxis without car seats for the babies and children. Not everyone uses car seats attached to their pram and some did while the babies were young but don't have a car seat always with them for older children. At least children should still be riding in the back in their own spot with a seat belt on. Babies could be worn on the body in a sling so that they don't become projectiles in the event of an accident. Ultimately, everyone driving on the roads should drive responsibly because all lives are valuable.

zubber · Jun 05, 2011

sage & onion wrote:Its Murder, simple as that, a child has no control over what happens with its life in such situations.

Bethsmum · Jun 05, 2011

Murder's a bit harsh. I feel sorry for the family. It was an accident and I'm sure he will be beside himself with guilt in killing his baby. On hindsight how many off us wish we hadn't done something? His mistake had terrible consequences. Poor people.

benwj · Jun 05, 2011

uaekid wrote:
Bora Bora wrote:Seven month old baby dies due to the recklessness of both parents. They can afford to live on the Palm, but can't afford to buy a baby seat?? Prestige over safety?

What is interesting is that the father, who caused the child's death is out on bail for humanitarian/compassionate reasons. His driving was reckless: speeding, lost control of his car, could have put other people in danger yet he gets bail and its referred to as an "accidental death"?? Under the circumstances it's called manslaughter by gross negligence.

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/crime ... d-1.817111

The 31-year-old father has been released on bail on humanitarian [further in the article it is referred to as compassion] grounds following the accident which led to the death of the baby girl, who was seated in her 28-year-old mother's lap in the front seat of the vehicle, according to Chief Traffic Prosecutor Salah Bu Farousha, Head of Dubai Traffic Public Prosecution (TPP).

See link for full article.

have you seen the full article ??????????

it states that he was "released on bail " which means it is not over daaaaa
those are " accidents " , it happens. haven't you done one driving or at home ? or are you one of those flawless ones .
I agree there should be a harsh punishment for such acts , but imagine a father who cant attend his own child funeral , don't be this much heartless bitc... its enough what he is going throw .

What's he going thru kid?
If he really loved his children, he would have gone to every effort to keep them safe. Yet he has failed to employ something as simple as a 400 dirham baby seat.
So, the child is worth, what 300 dirhams to him?
Let me guess, you weren't put in a car seat?, your parents don't love you :lol:

Did you also have a maid looking after you at the mall like the other emirati children, who's parents love them so much they walk 6 yards ahead, whilst someone else deals with their child, feeds them, wipes their arse, puts them to bed.
When you have a child of your one day, I hope that you might realise that loving a child involves sacifices, and not just taking them to magic planet.

Bethsmum · Jun 05, 2011

What's he going through Ben? Well I hope I never get to experience it. Uaekid is just showing some compassion, a thing we could all do with showing more of sometimes. Nobody's saying what the parents did wasn't wrong, it was.

The man in question was said to be Asian, not Emirati.

benwj · Jun 05, 2011

You missed a perfectly good opportunity to acuse Kanelli of not loving her children there BM. :lol:

Bora Bora · Jun 05, 2011

benwj wrote:You missed a perfectly good opportunity to acuse Kanelli of not loving her children there BM.

Benwj, glad to see that a man understands that there are no limits to protecting your child(ren) and taking every protection to do so.

BM still has an opportunity to wish K's little one a happy birthday!!! Hurry BM, head over to the Nice Thread. Oh, wait,................you are on her foe list.

Be the better person BM and send your congrats!!!

Chocoholic · Jun 05, 2011

Really! Are you guys really going to turn a perfectly good discussion thread into yet another bashing one? Come on - stop it! :roll:

Bora Bora · Jun 05, 2011

Bethsmum wrote:What's he going through Ben? Well I hope I never get to experience it. Uaekid is just showing some compassion, a thing we could all do with showing more of sometimes. Nobody's saying what the parents did wasn't wrong, it was.

The man in question was said to be Asian, not Emirati.

BM, I have compassion for this man. The guilt he has to live with everyday is beyond belief. But it doesn't mean he shouldn't be held responsible for endangering his child by being reckless and irresponsible. Because it's his daughter that died, doesn't change the fact that he committed a crime which could have been avoided if he was not driving recklessly and ensured that his daughter was safe while in the car by providing proper protection.

Chocoholic · Jun 05, 2011

With regards to taxi's. Surely the taxi companies should offer child seats if one is requested, not everyone has one of those convertible pram thingies.

Regards the case at hand, absolutely right that just because it's a family member doesn't absolve him of being prosecuted. He still acted wrecklessly.

Bethsmum · Jun 05, 2011

Bora Bora wrote:BM, I have compassion for this man. The guilt he has to live with everyday is beyond belief. But it doesn't mean he shouldn't be held responsible for endangering his child by being reckless and irresponsible. Because it's his daughter that died, doesn't change the fact that he committed a crime which could have been avoided if he was not driving recklessly and ensured that his daughter was safe while in the car by providing proper protection.

I was reading an article in the Sunday papers today Bora. It was about a the family of a man, Dr Ian Noble who was knocked of his scooter and killed by a motorist in London. They ackowledged that their son's death was a tragic accident and couldn't see the point of imprisoning someone for a mistake.

The motorist, pleaded guilty to causing death by dangerous driving.

In a statement read in court, his parents, Roderick and Joan, and his brother, Jamie, said Dr Noble would not have wanted Wright to be jailed.

They said: “Ian was wholly unconvinced about the effectiveness of short custodial sentences. Neither he nor us would advocate a sentence of severity for what we understand was a simple act of stupidity, albeit one with most devastating consequences.

“We would like to think the defendant would do something for the good of society to help alleviate the consequence of his carelessness.”

Wright was sentenced to a community order with 150 hours unpaid work and ordered to pay the £500 cost of the prosecution.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... octor.html

-- Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:33 pm --

benwj wrote:You missed a perfectly good opportunity to acuse Kanelli of not loving her children there BM.

I really need to get a grip Ben, I must be getting soft in my old age

-- Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:35 pm --

Chocoholic wrote:Really! Are you guys really going to turn a perfectly good discussion thread into yet another bashing one? Come on - stop it!

Just a bit of fun Chocs, no harm done eh? :lol:

Chocoholic · Jun 05, 2011

But BM, we live in a country where a pregnant woman can be charged with harming her unborn child, because she shouldn't be driving in case of an accident! :shock:

Bethsmum · Jun 05, 2011

Chocoholic wrote:But BM, we live in a country where a pregnant woman can be charged with harming her unborn child, because she shouldn't be driving in case of an accident!

Well Chocs, If I remember rightly, when I lived in Germany, pregnant women weren't allowed to drive after 7 months.

At the end of the day, it was an accident. I'm sure he didn't set out to kill anyone. He was careless with his family, he's got to live with that. Let's hope he's learnt his lesson and no longer poses a threat to anyone on the roads. And let's hope he doesn't jump of the nearest highrise.

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