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If all pilots did the same, we would not have to stand in line for security checks and take off our shoes.
Good move Delta, I will fly Delta from now on
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20110507/ts_csm/382434

LOL what a bunch of dumb asses. You'd think anybody up to no good would actually dress like that when he was on a "mission".

desertdudeshj wrote:LOL what a bunch of dumb asses. You'd think anybody up to no good would actually dress like that when he was on a "mission".

Yes, I agree DDS, what a bunch of dumb asses to dress like that in the USA in today's times. Truely idiotic to push their luck and they got dumped. Well done Delta Airways. I'll have a word with my mate at BA, may be she can extend that policy to Heathrow.

Yeah I heard you dress in a complete abaya and niqab when visiting the UAE

desertdudeshj wrote:Yeah I heard you dress in a complete abaya and niqab when visiting the UAE

How did you know that? Have you been on my FB?

Why would someone want to draw attention to themselves after news reports about the possibility of retaliation over the death of OBL? Smart thing would be to keep a low profile, not to make an "in your face" statement.

It's not as if they couldn't find western clothing to wear. I'm sure there had to be a Walmart or a Target near where they lived.

Maybe because they thought they were in a "free country" where people were not discriminated against race, religion, creed or how one chooses to dress.

Common sense should dictate Dude!!! People are also free to feel the possibility of a threat, especially when it's in your face!!! Why go high profile when low profile would serve a better purpose, considering the situation?? Would it have been a hardship for them to wear western clothing to AVOID the possibility of being "profiled"? If they were in western clothing I'm sure the situation would have never occurred.

To think that there is NO discrimination in the US, one would have to be out of touch with reality. If you had Americans dressed in combat fatigues boarding a commercial plane would that not raise some eyebrows???? There is a time and a place for everything.

Common sense rules, or perhaps not.

""Racism is a lazy man's substitute for using good judgment... Common sense becomes racism when skin color becomes a formula for figuring out who is a danger to me"

Juan Williams

As many say. Muslim is the new Black in America.

desertdudeshj wrote:Common sense rules, or perhaps not.

""Racism is a lazy man's substitute for using good judgment... Common sense becomes racism when skin color becomes a formula for figuring out who is a danger to me"

Juan Williams

As many say. Muslim is the new Black in America.

Ah, how typical, pull the race card!

Err....Islam or Muslim isn't a race.

desertdudeshj wrote:Err....Islam or Muslim isn't a race.

You said 'As many say. Muslim is the new Black in America'.

Keep up munchkin!

.....and another one screeming allahu akbar, that s why mouzlims are kicked off planes . You never hear a bomber screeming "Our Father who art in heaven"
Best way to get frequent flyers? when airlines offer "no mouzlims on board" flights .
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110509/ap_ ... isturbance

desertdudeshj wrote:Common sense rules, or perhaps not.

""Racism is a lazy man's substitute for using good judgment... Common sense becomes racism when skin color becomes a formula for figuring out who is a danger to me"

Juan Williams

As many say. Muslim is the new Black in America.

They were pulled over for their appearance. If dressed as a westerner they would pretty much look like anyone else and could not be profiled as being Muslim.

As many say? Who is this many and where are they from? Logic would dictate that being Muslim and be equated as black doesn't make sense. But, then again, it would take common sense to figure that one out.

How does a religion translate into a skin color? When people refer to someone as being a "muslim" they are referring to a follower of Islam. No different that referring to someone who is a "jew", follower of Judism, a "christian", follower of Christianity.

Well the buck stops with any Captain, and it's their call if they wish a passenger to be kicked off a flight for whatever reason. I think it was an over reaction and not necessary at all.

It's interesting that the reports the men were kicked off the plane because of their dress is based on what the two imams claim. Hmmm, I'm sure there's never an alternative reason from the pilot that we should hear from before arriving to conclusions.

event horizon wrote:It's interesting that the reports the men were kicked off the plane because of their dress is based on what the two imams claim. Hmmm, I'm sure there's never an alternative reason from the pilot that we should hear from before arriving to conclusions.

Flip flop.

I'm sure there were passengers who were uncomfortable because they associate Islamic dress with radicalism and even terrorism. Apparently the pilot does too. It is pure ignorance and paranoia that people should get over. Examples like this show how tolerance decreases, decreases... and then what next?

It is not paranoia or ignorance, it is a legitimate concern inspired by the fact that terrorists who blow up planes are ALL muslims, and scream allahu akbar.
Airline security should be about security and not political correctness
Elal, the Israeli airline has resolved the problems a long time ago. Muslims who want to fly on their planes are flagged, profiled and thoroughly rubber gloved, if they dont like it they can fly somewhere else or stop highjacking planes, as a result, passengers on El Al can fly with peace of mind.

Herve, how many planes are blown up every year by Muslims, and how many of those bombers were wearing Islamic dress?

Airline security should check passengers for any possible threats, if there is none, they should be allowed to fly. Those two men posed no security risk - they were simply wearing Islamic clothing that the pilot and possibly some passengers didn't feel comfortable with because of their own biases.

It is absolutely paranoia and ignorance.

Kanelli, no it is not, it is security and business.
Lately, none blew up , because the terrorists were caught in time, all of them were Muslims, you can't hide that, that s enought to create some concerns within the other passengers.
This concern with the muslims and islamic dressing was created by the muslim community, because of their support or their lack of condemnation / fight against their owns, a japanese guy in traditional clothing could board a plane, or a budhist in dress, an Indian from Mach Pichu, nobody would give a damn, i Guarantee you, because these people dont highjack planes.
Airlines are commercial companies, they survive if they make profit, the immense majority of PAYING passengers are not muslims, so, if they complain to the company and threaten to fly with another company because they are concerned scary or threatening muslims are allowed on board, what do you do if you are the chairman, he has the choice, either be politically correct and go bankrupt, OR, kick the scary muslims out of the plane. let them fly Emirates, i dont think they will highjack their planes.

Prior to OBL being taken out it is highly unlikely that this event would never have happened. More than likely no one would have given it a thought to the extreme.

It's not about being biased, ignorant, racist, or whatever you want to label it. It's about fear. Through the power of press, radio, television, warning people on a daily basis of possible retaliation on US soil, along with the US being on high alert, creates a sense of fear in people. You don't read about it in Singapore, Dubai, Italy, Spain, in the Middle East, in Europe, because it is confined to the various medias within the US.

If there were constant warnings through press, radio, television in Dubai that there was a strong possibility that malls were going to be "targets", the malls would be empty because of the fear that had been instilled in them. Add to that receiving a notice from your embassy/consulate, would add to that fear.

kanelli wrote:Airline security should check passengers for any possible threats

There are two ways to do that. "Look for the bomb" or "look for the terrorist". The first method appears to be flawed. Bombers can be one step ahead. Think about the shoe-bomber or x-mas bomber, they discovered new methods for their bomb not to be detected. Westerns security, which mainly follow the "look for the bomb" method runs after the facts and is inefficient IMO. The second method, "look for the terrorist" involves profiling amongst others. This is indeed the method of ELAL security. Not PC, but very effective. I can only imagine how many people want to blow up an ELAL plane.

Flying Dutchman wrote: This is indeed the method of ELAL security. Not PC, but very effective. I can only imagine how many people want to blow up an ELAL plane.

I believe that sometimes the fear is exagerated. There was a dispute with EL AL recently in Russia. EL AL insisted on presence of two guards with guns on every flight of the airline but according to Russian regulation, people with firearm on board are not allowed. As a result, Russia canceled flights of EL AL and the dispute goes on. I don't know how EL AL resolves similar issue in other countries.

Well, in that case, don't you think the Russian authorities had an exaggerated 'fear' for armed security personnel?

I also have heard from someone who lived in Russia for a few years - when Chechens were blowing up apartments - that the police in Moscow (or St Petersburg) would 'racially' profile any person with dark hair and eyes.

Red Chief wrote:I believe that sometimes the fear is exagerated

When it comes down to security they do give a cent about other peoples opinion.

Red Chief wrote: There was a dispute with EL AL recently in Russia. EL AL insisted on presence of two guards with guns on every flight of the airline but according to Russian regulation, people with firearm on board are not allowed. As a result, Russia canceled flights of EL AL and the dispute goes on. I don't know how EL AL resolves similar issue in other countries.

Is ELAL the only airliner not allowed to have air marshals in Russia, or are other (foreign) airliners also not allowed?
At Amsterdam airport it seems ELAL is allowed to do EVERYTHING (security wise) what they deem necessary.

event horizon wrote:Well, in that case, don't you think the Russian authorities had an exaggerated 'fear' for armed security personnel?

I also have heard from someone who lived in Russia for a few years - when Chechens were blowing up apartments - that the police in Moscow (or St Petersburg) would 'racially' profile any person with dark hair and eyes.

You heard... Two of those 20-storey appartment buildings, which were totaly distroyed at night without any single survived person, are located in one or two kilometers from my flat and nobody in the World had cared untill 9/11. There have been more appartment buildings and aircrafts blown than in the rest of the World for the last 15 years but Americans had treated Chechens as freedom fighters, not terrorists.

And yes, Russian police profiles and discreminates all "blacks" regardless of their real nationality and I personaly don't count this hysteria as an effective way. In Dubai, I met a guy from Syria, who graduated from university in Russia, then married Russian woman and still loves Russia but is forced to work in Dubai due to the security bigotry.

-- Wed May 11, 2011 10:20 am --

Flying Dutchman wrote:Is ELAL the only airliner not allowed to have air marshals in Russia, or are other (foreign) airliners also not allowed?
At Amsterdam airport it seems ELAL is allowed to do EVERYTHING (security wise) what they deem necessary.

Russian laws and regulations are not selective at least on paper. All foreign and LOCAL airlines are not allowed to have people with firearm on board. So there was no political ground under that. Actualy Russia has rather good relationship with Israel: a few years ago Israel and Russia mutually cancelled entry visas for their citizens.

As for airport it's the same in Russia. EL AL has own counters and "barbed wire", which surrounded the 50 meters perimeter around them.

It is about bias, people are becoming biased about anything Islam with all the extremist propaganda out there. America thrives off of being scared of everything - the media hypes up so many topics just for headlines. News broadcasts from the US drive me nuts!

By the same logic some of you are using, people walking down the street should cross to the other side if they see a black or hispanic person, because lots of crimes are committed by gangs comprised of blacks and hispanics. All blacks and hispanics should be treated suspiciously because they could be a danger to others. But that wouldn't be bias would it...

kanelli wrote:By the same logic some of you are using, people walking down the street should cross to the other side if they see a black or hispanic person, because lots of crimes are committed by gangs comprised of blacks and hispanics. All blacks and hispanics should be treated suspiciously because they could be a danger to others. But that wouldn't be bias would it...

I'm referring to the power of suggestion Kanelli. If you hear/read enough you can create the fear that is intended. No different that if raising a child and telling a child the sky is pink, that child will believe it until they learn otherwise. Hardly logic as that is not something drummed into peoples minds through the news media it's the power of suggestion that creates fear as well as other emotions.

Logic would be: do you have areas in Canada that are considered unsafe for "white" people to go to? We have them in the US and I'm sure every country has such areas. These are generally poor neighborhoods where there is a level of "gang mentality" and the "outsider" would have the fear level. Would you casually walk through these neighborhoods with your children? Highly unlikely. And why would that be? Because you have read or heard about them.

Are you talking about Bronx?