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OBL was found 35 miles from Islamabad in a large compound less than a mile from some military academy.

Wikileaks reveals American officials 'know' that the Pakistanis would tip OBL off if US forces told the Pakistanis they were moving in on him.

And Pakistan's connections with the Afghan Taliban and Islamic terror groups operating in Kashmir and against India are well known.

So, at this point, is it beyond obvious that OBL was a guest or being held under house arrest by the Pakistanis?

The compound OBL was staying in was built in 2005 and my guess is that OBL moved in soon afterward. Terrorist leaders know to move to a different location every night or so. So why did OBL stay at one location for so long? Who built the mansion? And why live 3/4 of a mile from a Pakistani military complex?

Needless to say, OBL would not have been found if we tipped the Pakistanis off ahead of time. I think it's about time to start exacting some payback with Pakistan.

For once I agree with you EH. He was basically hiding in plain sight and probably under the protection of the Pakistani military that was right next door. Why would the US look at a military complex and the surrounding area? Because they trusted Pakistan was helping them???

Of course Pakistan was protecting him. How many times in the past there were "raids" on places that he was suppose to be and when they got there he was gone - in Afghanistan and in Pakistan? He was getting a heads up from our so-called allies!!

Pakistan was collecting from both sides - the US and OBL. Now that there is no more payoff from OBL, hopefully the US will stop the "aid"(?) that they have been giving to Pakistan.

NATO should barricade the borders of Afghanistan, withdraw all the troops, and let them all overdose on their heroine and kill each other. As for Pakistan - leave them to India.

Yup, they knew he was there - there's no doubt about it. As BB says, where better than to hide, than in plain site and close to a military base.

Not sure if you guys saw it, but the reports of the neighbour of OBL tweeting about a US helicopter hovering overhead at stupid o'clock nearly messed the whole thing up!

If Pakistan did know, then the US needs to do something drastic to show Pakistan that they cannot play both sides. Pull out all aid and stop using them as an "ally", because clearly they are not.

I highly doubt there is an "if". Apparently the US knew of his whereabouts since last September. There certainly has to be a reason it was never shared with Pakistan.

Pakistan receives Foreign aid from several different countries and the International community. Much of this money goes to the development of stability and civil development within the country.

Between 2002-2010, Pakistan received approximately $18 billion in military and economic aid from the United States. In February 2010, the Obama administration requested an additional 3 billion in aid, for a total of 20.7 billion.

Western officials have claimed nearly 70% ( roughly $3.4 billion) of the aid given to the Pakistani military has been misspent in 2002-2007. However U.S-Pakistani relationship has been a transactional based and U.S military aid to Pakistan has been shrouded in secrecy for several years until recently .

United Kingdom has pledged £665 million to Pakistan from 2009-2013.

Saudi Arabia has also been big in donating to Pakistan when it came to the flood relief. I'm sure the US through in some extra as well, along with other countries.

So with all this money why hasn't Pakistan moved an inch forward in making progress in any area. If anything, it's become worse in every way, as well as becoming a breeding ground for terrorists.

I love the latest news coming out of Pakistan. Pakistan is saying that the intelligence agencies should share the responsibility with them for not finding OBL?? HUH?? Maybe it's because Pakistan kept telling OBL when to expect company?? FFS's he was living 3/4 miles away from on of the largest military complexes in Pakistan. All he had to do was trot down to the base, hold up for a while, until he was given the all clear.

So typical, it's not my fault, it's theirs!!!! One thing Pakistan can take responsibility for is being traitors!!! I guess they breed not only terrorists but traitors as well??

So why did OBL stay at one location for so long? Who built the mansion? And why live 3/4 of a mile from a Pakistani military complex?

May be cause the fairy tale fantacy had to end in the same style to close the whole chapter in history..
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO109C.html

I heard he was quietly watching the Manchester United vs Arsenal match on satellite and when Arsenal scored, he ran outside and shouted "Come on you Gunners!"

Thats how they got him!

Honest!

A Pakistani general told me!



Knight

Dubai Knight wrote:I heard he was quietly watching the Manchester United vs Arsenal match on satellite and when Arsenal scored, he ran outside and shouted "Come on you Gunners!"

Thats how they got him!

Honest!

A Pakistani general told me!



Knight

Did Chocs tell you that?

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/co ... 78028.html

Robert Fisk seems to think that Pakistan knew of OBL's location all along.

Robert Fisk is a serious nut-job. He manages to contort facts to his own little reality. I also notice he's still parroting the long discredited (the figure was never taken seriously by non-loons) casualty figure of over half a million dead in Iraq. He's even managed to repeat the lie that the US government supplied Saddam with chemical weapons or that OBL was trained by the CIA. This guy's a loon in his own fantasy world. I just wonder why newspapers give his rantings the light of day.

Fisk also doesn't explain how OBL was betrayed by the Pakistanis. Does he seriously not do enough basic reading before he writes his rants to know the Pakistanis were not involved in any phase of this operation?

kanelli wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-was-he-betrayed-of-course-pakistan-knew-bin-ladens-hiding-place-all-along-2278028.html

Robert Fisk seems to think that Pakistan knew of OBL's location all along.

Anyone with any common sense and can think outside the box would conclude that Pakistan not only knew of OBL's location, but was living under the protection of Pakistan for at least the past 5 years. Unfortunately it took that long for the US to figure out the part that Pakistan was giving OBL protection. I guess after so many US planned raids, working with Pakistan on those raids, turned up nothing was a clue?

event horizon wrote:Robert Fisk is a serious nut-job. He manages to contort facts to his own little reality. I also notice he's still parroting the long discredited (the figure was never taken seriously by non-loons) casualty figure of over half a million dead in Iraq. He's even managed to repeat the lie that the US government supplied Saddam with chemical weapons or that OBL was trained by the CIA. This guy's a loon in his own fantasy world. I just wonder why newspapers give his rantings the light of day.

Fisk also doesn't explain how OBL was betrayed by the Pakistanis. Does he seriously not do enough basic reading before he writes his rants to know the Pakistanis were not involved in any phase of this operation?

I thought all of that was true. A recent documentary even said that OBL was trained by the CIA. I don't think Fisk is a nut-job.

kanelli wrote:A recent documentary even said that OBL was trained by the CIA.

CIA trained him to do what? Come on Kanelli, are you entertaining that there is a remote possibility of that being true?

Presidents Carter and Reagan supported the Mujahideen in Afghanistan, fighting against the Soviet and DRA troops during the Soviet war, late 70’s early 80’s, OBL was fighting with the Mujahideen at that time. Funding, munitions and training was provided by the CIA, MI5-6, Iran and several other western governments through Pakistan’s ISI in an attempt to keep the sources anonymous.

Mujahideen factions evolved into Al-Qaida.

Under Reagan, U.S. support for the mujahideen evolved into an official U.S. foreign policy, known as the Reagan Doctrine, which included U.S. support for anti-Soviet movements in Afghanistan, Angola, and Nicaragua. Ronald Reagan praised the mujahideen as "freedom fighters".

I don't think Robert Fisk is a nut job either.

Dillon wrote:Presidents Carter and Reagan supported the Mujahideen in Afghanistan, fighting against the Soviet and DRA troops during the Soviet war, late 70’s early 80’s, OBL was fighting with the Mujahideen at that time.

He was one from the mutitude and did not play any significant role at that time. As far as I know he established own organization only in 1988 on the eve of the withdrawal of Soviet Army. At least, Talliban, who later were alegedly the best friend of him , fought with former "Mujahideen" up to the last ditch and solely US intervention saved the latter from full annihilation.

Red Chief wrote:He was one from the mutitude and did not play any significant role at that time.

The BBC tells a very different story;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/155236.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/cta/progs ... _16sep.ram

Dillon wrote:

Red Chief wrote:He was one from the mutitude and did not play any significant role at that time.

The BBC tells a very different story;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/155236.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/cta/progs ... _16sep.ram

In the first link I found rather shellow descripion of OBL's activity in Afghanistan before withdrawal Soviet troops. There is neither details nor digits in the article. Sorry I could not open the second link.

Wiki is more comprehensive:

By 1984, bin Laden and Azzam established Maktab al-Khidamat, which funneled money, arms and fighters from around the Arab world into Afghanistan. Through al-Khadamat, bin Laden's inherited family fortune paid for air tickets and accommodation, paid for paperwork with Pakistani authorities and provided other such services for the jihadi fighters.

I guess Afghanistan at that time was a huge training camp both for Jihadists and Soviet troops. So we can easily find such a shot from the past as OBL. Anyway I don't think that the hired servants played significant role on the battlefield. Even in the article they speak about thousand people of diverse background but there were millions of pashto, tajiks and uzbeks and member of another Afghani tribes, who fought against Soviet and goverment troops.

1) The Taliban didn't exist until the war in Afghanistan ended

2) The US never supported the Afghan Arabs, of which OBL was obviously part of

3) The Afghan Arabs never played a significant role in the Afghan insurgency. During the height of the war, there were some 200,000 individuals involved in the insurgency in Afghanistan - only hundreds of Arabs would have been in Afghanistan at any one time

4) The United States supported groups that would go on to form the Northern Alliance. Pakistan was involved with insurgent movements with primarily Pashtun ethnic background. Many of these fighters would later form the Taliban.

Re: Osama and the CIA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA-Osama_ ... ontroversy

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO109C.html

Just two links, am still reading to find out more info but am short on time today. Will write again.

-- Sat May 07, 2011 10:34 am --

Re: Chemical weapons used by Iraq http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack

The know-how and material for developing chemical weapons were obtained by Saddam's regime from foreign firms.[22] The largest suppliers of precursors for chemical weapons production were in Singapore (4,515 tons), the Netherlands (4,261 tons), Egypt (2,400 tons), India (2,343 tons), and West Germany (1,027 tons). One Indian company, Exomet Plastics (now part of EPC Industrie Ltd.) sent 2,292 tons of precursor chemicals to Iraq. The Kim Al-Khaleej firm, located in Singapore and affiliated to United Arab Emirates, supplied more than 4,500 tons of VX, sarin, and mustard gas precursors and production equipment to Iraq.[23]

The provision of chemical precursors from United States companies to Iraq was enabled by a Ronald Reagan administration policy that removed Iraq from the State Department's list of State Sponsors of Terrorism. Leaked portions of Iraq's "Full, Final and Complete" disclosure of the sources for its weapons programs shows that thiodiglycol, a substance needed to manufacture mustard gas, was among the chemical precursors provided to Iraq from US companies such as Alcolac International and Phillips. Both companies have since undergone reorganization and Phillips, once a subsidiary of Phillips Petroleum is now part of ConocoPhillips, an American oil and discount fossil fuel company, while Alcolac International has since dissolved and reformed as Alcolac Inc.[24] Alcolac was named as a defendant in the Aziz v. Iraq case presently pending in the United States District Court (Case No. 1:09-cv-00869-MJG).[citation needed]

kanelli wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA-Osama_bin_Laden_controversy

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO109C.html

Just two links, am still reading to find out more info but am short on time today. Will write again.

kanelli wrote:A recent documentary even said that OBL was trained by the CIA.

That statement was very broad.

Apparently he was a volunteer from the group known as the Afghan Arabs - muhijadeen, and was on the "right side of the fence" and who later jumped to the other side of the fence, forming Al Qaeda. I''m sure there are alot of people who are now the enemy were trained by governments when they were perceived to be helping the cause.

A number of commentators have described Al-Qaeda attacks as blowback or an unintended consequence of American aid to the mujahideen. In response, the American government, American and Pakistani intelligence officials involved in the operation, and at least one journalist (Peter Bergen) have denied this theory. They maintain the aid was given out by the Pakistan government, that it went to Afghan not foreign mujahideen, and that there was no contact between the Afghan Arabs and the CIA or other American officials, let alone arming, training, coaching or indoctrination.

Of course the CIA and other American officials are going to deny any training, if indeed there was any. I'm sure knowing that they trained the most wanted man in the world, not knowing that was what would become of him, would prove to be embarassing.

event horizon wrote:1) The Taliban didn't exist until the war in Afghanistan ended

2) The US never supported the Afghan Arabs, of which OBL was obviously part of

3) The Afghan Arabs never played a significant role in the Afghan insurgency. During the height of the war, there were some 200,000 individuals involved in the insurgency in Afghanistan - only hundreds of Arabs would have been in Afghanistan at any one time

4) The United States supported groups that would go on to form the Northern Alliance. Pakistan was involved with insurgent movements with primarily Pashtun ethnic background. Many of these fighters would later form the Taliban.

You’ve just jumped from the Soviet War in Afghanistan to the Afghan Civil War of which the Taliban were one of the opposing forces. No one is suggesting the CIA supported the Taliban, they did however support the Mujahideen against the Soviet and DRA troops during the Soviet war. The Afghan Arabs were a force of 1,000’s of Arabs, recruited by OBL through the Pakistani ISI, (Inter Services Intelligence) and integrated within the Mujahideen.

The Mujahideen, of which OBL and the 1,000’s of Afghan Arabs were members, received funding, munitions and training provided by the CIA amongst others.

It is also worth noting that OBL was actively working with the Pakistani ISI as early as 1980, and Ramzi Yousef, the 1993 WTC bomber was in fact arrested by the ISI in Islamabad in a guest house owned by OBL.

You know what I don't get?? There are just as many pakistani terrorists who are the enemy of the US as there are Arabs, yet Arabs are the ones that suffer more so in the US.

In the same vein, majority of the so called 9/11 bombers were Saudi and none were Afghani or Iraqi. Yet the US is best buds with the Saudi's and sell them billions of dollars worth of arms and invaded Afghanistan and Iraq instead.

desertdudeshj wrote:In the same vein, majority of the so called 9/11 bombers were Saudi and none were Afghani or Iraqi. Yet the US is best buds with the Saudi's and sell them billions of dollars worth of arms and invaded Afghanistan and Iraq instead.

I think you'll find our excuse for invading Iraq was because of WOMD and not OBL.

The invasion of Afghanistan was launched to capture OBL who was accused of the 9/11 attacks. The Taliban government was thought to be giving him shelter and supporting his Al Qaeda network.

The 7/7 bombers were supposed to be British (LOL!), so from what you are infering, we Brits should just invade ourselves then?

kanelli wrote:Re: Osama and the CIA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA-Osama_ ... ontroversy

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO109C.html

Just two links, am still reading to find out more info but am short on time today. Will write again.

-- Sat May 07, 2011 10:34 am --

Re: Chemical weapons used by Iraq http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack

The know-how and material for developing chemical weapons were obtained by Saddam's regime from foreign firms.[22] The largest suppliers of precursors for chemical weapons production were in Singapore (4,515 tons), the Netherlands (4,261 tons), Egypt (2,400 tons), India (2,343 tons), and West Germany (1,027 tons). One Indian company, Exomet Plastics (now part of EPC Industrie Ltd.) sent 2,292 tons of precursor chemicals to Iraq. The Kim Al-Khaleej firm, located in Singapore and affiliated to United Arab Emirates, supplied more than 4,500 tons of VX, sarin, and mustard gas precursors and production equipment to Iraq.[23]

The provision of chemical precursors from United States companies to Iraq was enabled by a Ronald Reagan administration policy that removed Iraq from the State Department's list of State Sponsors of Terrorism. Leaked portions of Iraq's "Full, Final and Complete" disclosure of the sources for its weapons programs shows that thiodiglycol, a substance needed to manufacture mustard gas, was among the chemical precursors provided to Iraq from US companies such as Alcolac International and Phillips. Both companies have since undergone reorganization and Phillips, once a subsidiary of Phillips Petroleum is now part of ConocoPhillips, an American oil and discount fossil fuel company, while Alcolac International has since dissolved and reformed as Alcolac Inc.[24] Alcolac was named as a defendant in the Aziz v. Iraq case presently pending in the United States District Court (Case No. 1:09-cv-00869-MJG).[citation needed]

What your article is saying is that private US firms supplied a miniscule fraction of chemical precursors to Saddam's regime compared to the thousands of tons of chemical weapon precursors sent to Iraq from elsewhere. Alcolac International was later fined by the US government for supplying Iraq with chemical weapons precursos. Your article lists 14,500 tons of chemical weapons precursors sent to Iraq from India, Singapore, Egypt and the Netherlands. An American company supplied 300 tons. So, based on the total quantities sent to Iraq from abroud and the fact that private company was later fined by the US government for breaking the law, it is inaccurate to say the US armed Iraq with chemical weapons, as Robert Fisk has claimed for the umpteenth time.

-- Sat May 07, 2011 6:24 pm --

Dillon wrote:You’ve just jumped from the Soviet War in Afghanistan to the Afghan Civil War of which the Taliban were one of the opposing forces. No one is suggesting the CIA supported the Taliban, they did however support the Mujahideen against the Soviet and DRA troops during the Soviet war. The Afghan Arabs were a force of 1,000’s of Arabs, recruited by OBL through the Pakistani ISI, (Inter Services Intelligence) and integrated within the Mujahideen.

The Mujahideen, of which OBL and the 1,000’s of Afghan Arabs were members, received funding, munitions and training provided by the CIA amongst others.

It is also worth noting that OBL was actively working with the Pakistani ISI as early as 1980, and Ramzi Yousef, the 1993 WTC bomber was in fact arrested by the ISI in Islamabad in a guest house owned by OBL.

I mentioned the Taliban based on what someone else said. There's no evidence I'm aware of that the CIA or any Western agency directly worked with the Afghan Arabs. Our allies in the Soviet war were the same ones who later joined the Northern Alliance and we reconnected with during the invasion of Afghanistan.

desertdudeshj wrote:In the same vein, majority of the so called 9/11 bombers were Saudi and none were Afghani or Iraqi. Yet the US is best buds with the Saudi's and sell them billions of dollars worth of arms and invaded Afghanistan and Iraq instead.

"So called" 9/11 bombers?? If they weren't 9/11 bombers, then what else would you call them? Or is that to say that you don't believe 9/11 didn't happen?

Yes, they were Saudi - groomed and trained in Afghanistan and Pakistan, both countries being breeding grounds for terrorists. OBL got thrown out of Saudi Arabia for trying to set up camp there and Afghanistan and Pakistan welcomed him. I just saw a report that the Bali bomber (who is Indonesian) was found not far from where OBL was living, and the arrested 25 people suspicion of being terrorists. WOW Pakistan, you are really on the ball now!!!!

This list was updated May 1, 2011, which is a list of domestic, trans-national and extremist terrorist (total of 47) groups in Pakistan.

http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries ... p_list.htm

Here's something else from the same website.

http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries ... index.html

Various shades of radical political Islam colour, indeed define, the Pakistani identity and nation, even as the country is positioned at the heart of contemporary Islamist terrorism. Extremist Islam is, and has long been, the state’s principal tool of internal political mobilisation and of external projection in an extraordinary and audacious enterprise of strategic overextension. Crucially, the footprint of almost every major act of international Islamist terrorism, for some time before 9/11 and continuously thereafter, invariably passes through Pakistan. After 9/11, the U.S. campaign in Afghanistan, and the stark choice given to the Pakistani leadership, the dynamics of the Islamist terrorist enterprise in South Asia have undergone dramatic adaptive adjustments and modifications. Essentially, however, this dynamic, its underlying ideologies, and its motivational and institutional structures, remain intact.

There is strong and cumulative evidence that the Pakistani power elite, located in the regressive military-mullah-feudal combine, is yet to abandon terrorism as a tactical and strategic tool to secure what it perceives as the country’s quest for ‘strategic depth’ in the region. This remains the case despite the increasing ‘blowback’ of Islamist terrorist violence within the country, and the progressive erosion of the Army’s status and control in expanding areas of the country. While the Pakistani Army has taken selective action against particular groups of Islamist terrorists – particularly those who have turned against the state, who have attacked President Musharraf and senior Army and Government functionaries, who have engaged in sectarian terrorism within the country, or who are targeted specifically on behalf of, and under pressure from, the US – it is the case that Pakistan continues to support and encourage the activities of a wide range of terrorist and Islamist extremist organisations. This is particularly the case with organisations that are active in Afghanistan – including remnants of the Taliban – and in India.

Despite cosmetic policy changes and some tokenism – including formal bans on a number of terrorist organisations – many prominent Islamist terrorist organisations continue to operate with a high measure of freedom in and from Pakistan.

So is the US making another case for another invasion ?

desertdudeshj wrote:So is the US making another case for another invasion ?

Lord I hope not!! The US should clear out of both crapholes and pull the chain when the last military man leaves!!!!

Someone said that besides OBL going down, the best part is that the last thing OBL saw was an American blow him away.