Dubai Forums Dubai Discussions Dubai Politics Talk Philosophy and Religion Forums

I've been researching reincarnation for the last 5 years. Alhamdulillah I'm muslim, but I'm surprised at most muslim brothers' attitude to the real facts. Quite interesting case happened with a toddler
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EWwzFwUOxA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5965wcH2Kx0&feature=related

I've seen some cases among muslims as well.

Share your thoughts in a civilized manner.

Reincarnation is a superstitious belief that stems from the humane fear of death, reincarnation thus pacifies this fear by professing that death is a temporary state, the commonly misunderstood term "Karma" arises from the reincarnation ideology, Only those who obstinately insist on continuing to follow their animal desires accept reincarnation as the only feasible and convenient religion.

Hedonism and reincarnation are mutually compatible, since the former dictates a life of unrestrained pursuit of pleasure and the latter provides incentive to continue in such behavior

zubber wrote:Reincarnation is a superstitious belief that stems from the humane fear of death, reincarnation thus pacifies this fear by professing that death is a temporary state, the commonly misunderstood term "Karma" arises from the reincarnation ideology, Only those who obstinately insist on continuing to follow their animal desires accept reincarnation as the only feasible and convenient religion.

Hedonism and reincarnation are mutually compatible, since the former dictates a life of unrestrained pursuit of pleasure and the latter provides incentive to continue in such behavior

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO you're talking complete and utter tripe Zubber! Do you not understand basic biology, chemistry and physics? Everything in the universe is made up of energy, even YOU. Every cell in your body resonates to different frequencies, your body is NOT you, it is merely the vessel that contains your soul, aura, energy - whatever you want to call it. This does not die, then the body dies. Energy cannot die, nor disipate, it merely changes from one form to another.

Reincarnation is absolutely for real, I know many old souls, I'm pretty ancient myself. I have met people who've regressed through several past lives. It's the invention of Heaven and the afterlife that appeases peoples fear of death - not the other way around.

zubber wrote:Reincarnation is a superstitious belief that stems from the humane fear of death, reincarnation thus pacifies this fear by professing that death is a temporary state, the commonly misunderstood term "Karma" arises from the reincarnation ideology, Only those who obstinately insist on continuing to follow their animal desires accept reincarnation as the only feasible and convenient religion.

Hedonism and reincarnation are mutually compatible, since the former dictates a life of unrestrained pursuit of pleasure and the latter provides incentive to continue in such behavior

The facts speak for themselves. Being muslim I admit reincarnation is real, for there's no contradiction between Islam and reincarnation. Our essence is SOUL! We are SOULs, not physical bodies. We reincarnate in 3Dimension through physical body. From chemical point of view there's no difference between dead body and alive body, but what makes them different? - The SOUL. In Koran God made the shape of man from clay and gave it his breath - never dying life or SOUL! Anything material (physical) is doomed to perish or to be worn out. But not the Energy- our SOULs! We reincarnate in different body because physical body perishes for certain reason, but the SOUL must grow up towards Janna (Heaven) towards Allah, thus comes back to a different body to continue his mission of spiritual growth towards Allah in order to be worth of Janna.

Those who refute reincarnation prefer "belief" for facts. By belief I mean their interpretation of religion. Whereas it should be the opposite. One should change his theory if it contradicts the facts, not the other way around.

Moreover, these are the toddlers and I doubt that they can concoct some elaborate hoax. And it's happening among muslims as well.

Well I'd refute the difference between and alive and dead body, in a dead body there are no more electrical impulses to drive the physical being. But if you've ever seen a dead body, it's weird because you can see exactly what is missing - the soul.

Chocoholic wrote:Well I'd refute the difference between and alive and dead body, in a dead body there are no more electrical impulses to drive the physical being. But if you've ever seen a dead body, it's weird because you can see exactly what is missing - the soul.

What causes electrical impulses? - the SOUL for it is ENERGY! Scientists connected human brain of a deceased man to electrodes and put low voltage through it. The dead body jolted. It means the brains is just a conductor that connects soul and body to intelligently control it in 3D.

Shuhrat wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:Well I'd refute the difference between and alive and dead body, in a dead body there are no more electrical impulses to drive the physical being. But if you've ever seen a dead body, it's weird because you can see exactly what is missing - the soul.

What causes electrical impulses? - the SOUL for it is ENERGY! Scientists connected human brain of a deceased man to electrodes and put low voltage through it. The dead body jolted. It means the brains is just a conductor that connects soul and body to intelligently control it in 3D.

Yes agree. The whole 3D thing is just weird - stop that. But to say a living body and a dead one are the same is not correct.

Chocoholic wrote:

Shuhrat wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:Well I'd refute the difference between and alive and dead body, in a dead body there are no more electrical impulses to drive the physical being. But if you've ever seen a dead body, it's weird because you can see exactly what is missing - the soul.

What causes electrical impulses? - the SOUL for it is ENERGY! Scientists connected human brain of a deceased man to electrodes and put low voltage through it. The dead body jolted. It means the brains is just a conductor that connects soul and body to intelligently control it in 3D.

Yes agree. The whole 3D thing is just weird - stop that. But to say a living body and a dead one are the same is not correct.

I didn't say they are the same, I said the chemical composition is the same, but one is alive, the other dead. If chemical composition is the same, then from materialistic point of view they both should be alive. Thus what makes them different is SOUL!

er yes I think we've already agreed on that. But an interesting thing, not everyone becomes reincarnated immediately, so who knows how long the time line is and how some people get to come back and others don't.

Chocoholic wrote:er yes I think we've already agreed on that. But an interesting thing, not everyone becomes reincarnated immediately, so who knows how long the time line is and how some people get to come back and others don't.

I've read Michael Newton's book (a renowned parapsychologist in California who regressed more than 10 000 patience under hypnosis), according to him (who as he says was an ardent sceptic at first but then his patients literally brought him into believing the phenomenon) it depends on the type pf souls and karma.

Here you can watch his excellent interview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QDT58Q6Zxo
Look up for other parts of the video there.

Chocoholic wrote: Energy cannot die, nor disipate, it merely changes from one form to another.

Agreed the first law of thermodynamics is applicable to all available quanta of energy in the universe. However the reincarnation occurs on the souls , The soul which is poorly understood is being generalized as another form of "energy", even though it can't be manipulated. Energy is defined as the capacity to do work, The soul cannot be categorized as "energy" vibration or otherwise.

Now I wouldnt want to get into the validity of reincarnation theory, because then the scope of this conversation will leave the scientific realm and become a discussion about the validity of sources of information

Chocoholic wrote:Reincarnation is absolutely for real, I know many old souls, I'm pretty ancient myself. I have met people who've regressed through several past lives. It's the invention of Heaven and the afterlife that appeases peoples fear of death - not the other way around.

For a thing to be absolute it has to be throughly and clearly understood and reincarnation certainly doesnt fit the bill. Your belief system is your right so I wont comment on that. I suggest that the source of reincarnation theory should be further examined, since its description is a mixture of ideas from more than one religion

-

-- Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:36 pm --

Shuhrat wrote:The facts speak for themselves. Being muslim I admit reincarnation is real, for there's no contradiction between Islam and reincarnation.

the reincarnation you have mentioned here is not understood in the same manner by the the nonmuslims. Endeavor to be more clear in your arguments

-- Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:38 pm --

Shuhrat wrote:I've read Michael Newton's book (a renowned parapsychologist in California who regressed more than 10 000 patience under hypnosis), according to him (who as he says was an ardent sceptic at first but then his patients literally brought him into believing the phenomenon) it depends on the type pf souls and karma.

Here you can watch his excellent interview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QDT58Q6Zxo
Look up for other parts of the video there.

Karma is not an islamic concept.

zubber wrote:
the reincarnation you have mentioned here is not understood in the same manner by the the nonmuslims. Endeavor to be more clear in your arguments

Karma is not an islamic concept.

Well, let me ask you, what manner is it understood? I'd like to ask you to clear your own arguments

Reincarnation is understood by nonmuslims as a spiritual growth towards God and Janna through incarnating in different lives while Islam teaches through life and then resurrection (return to life in the "same" body) which is in a way reincarnation (return to life in a different body.) You might say it's a return to life in the same body, but according to Islam, people won't go into Paradise in this body, they would have different bodies as it's clearly taught in Islam.

As to karma, of course THERE IS such notion as karma. "What you saw that you mow" - whatever you do, you get the punishment or praise that you deserve. Rejecting karma is rejecting that we are souls. And let's not talk about speaking within scientific realm, just because out Earthly science, even though we think it is advancing, is still in its infancy even rejecting the existence of souls.
It's just that the word karma us not used in Islam, but there is such a notion.

Shuhrat wrote:Well, let me ask you, what manner is it understood? I'd like to ask you to clear your own arguments

I suggest looking into definition of reincarnation theory, their is much material on this subject matter

Shuhrat wrote:Reincarnation is understood by nonmuslims as a spiritual growth towards God and Janna through incarnating in different lives while Islam teaches through life and then resurrection (return to life in the "same" body) which is in a way reincarnation (return to life in a different body.) You might say it's a return to life in the same body, but according to Islam, people won't go into Paradise in this body, they would have different bodies as it's clearly taught in Islam.

Your understanding of islam is not based on established understanding, i suggest you correct your definition of tawhid

People who believe in reincarnation deny god , they are atheists.

Shuhrat wrote:As to karma, of course THERE IS such notion as karma. "What you saw that you mow" - whatever you do, you get the punishment or praise that you deserve.

Karma is not understood in the way you defined by the nonmuslims. I urge you again to investigate this matter before making misleading claims

zubber wrote:I suggest looking into definition of reincarnation theory, their is much material on this subject matter


Your understanding of islam is not based on established understanding, i suggest you correct your definition of tawhid

People who believe in reincarnation deny god , they are atheists.

Karma is not understood in the way you defined by the nonmuslims. I urge you again to investigate this matter before making misleading claims

I've probably researched into reincarnation more than you think, and I'm well aware of its definition.
Established understanding?! Do you know that for Buddists, Christians and people pf other confessions, their teaching are established understandings. I guess you didn't express your thoughts quite well. I guess you meant established facts. But see, what facts can be in religions when their core is made of belief ?!

And Karma is indeed understood the way I described it. Don't believe it, then ask.

I bet today the reason Islam has such negative image in the world is because muslims (mostly arabs) got into literal teaching of Islam, it went astray from spiritual teachings that flourished once in the middle ages, that lead to extreme understanding of Islam. It's even evident in your unsupported claims like above.
I would advise you to see the world in a broader sense, not the way it is described in books.