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Bora, Zonker has done what you advised, he has lived in Canada for years. BM's in the know

Then he should count his blessings, or does he want to go "home"???

Bora Bora wrote:Then he should count his blessings, or does he want to go "home"???

I'm sure Zonker can speak for himself, Bora, although he will be fast asleep presently! I would say he is a very patriotic man who appears to love his home country and Canada. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he returned home one day and good for him, I say.

Bethsmum wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:Then he should count his blessings, or does he want to go "home"???

I'm sure Zonker can speak for himself, Bora, although he will be fast asleep presently! I would say he is a very patriotic man who appears to love his home country and Canada. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he returned home one day and good for him, I say.

But................where is home???

Pakistan, Bora. I'm not giving away any secrets here BTW, Zonker has stated it on the forum quite a few times.

finally the answer to the thread, will regional unrest affect the UAE is .... nobody knows...

Mahmoud04 wrote:finally the answer to the thread, will regional unrest affect the UAE is .... nobody knows...

Nobody knows?

I don't know about others but I know for sure that regional unrest will not have any affect on UAE.

The reasons are very obvious and many have already mentioned them in this thread itself.

well, I agree with you Zaq, but I can't be sure, specially if KSA got unrest...
not many people believed that Iceland volcano would have the effect it had...

Bethsmum wrote:Pakistan, Bora. I'm not giving away any secrets here BTW, Zonker has stated it on the forum quite a few times.

So - Pakistan to UAE. or came to UAE very young/born in UAE. UAE to Canada. Proves that you can change those things in your life that you have no control over. So, where is "home"??

Bora, we have gone around in some circles here on this discussion, and lost our way. I was not talking about myself, I was just stating the facts as they appeared to me. I used to live in the UAE, and loved it, EXCEPT for some of its glaring injustices which always troubled me. And so, when the opportunity arose, I left. I might add, that I was literally begged not to go by many locals in high places, but I extricated myself with some tactful maneuvering, and we all parted as friends.I knew I couldnt change the things I didnt like, and left well enough alone.
As for where is 'Home', I have always beleived in the saying 'Home is where the heart is'. My heart, fortunately or not, is not always in one place. Yes, I do love Pakistan, and really start to LIVE in the true sense of the word when I am there. There is a lot wrong with that place I realize, and I am not going to defend the undefensible.
And yes, I love it here in Canada. I think, for me, it is the perfect country.
But where is my heart currently? .......Thats the million dollar question....

zonker wrote:Bora, we have gone around in some circles here on this discussion, and lost our way. I was not talking about myself, I was just stating the facts as they appeared to me. I used to live in the UAE, and loved it, EXCEPT for some of its glaring injustices which always troubled me. And so, when the opportunity arose, I left. I might add, that I was literally begged not to go by many locals in high places, but I extricated myself with some tactful maneuvering, and we all parted as friends.I knew I couldnt change the things I didnt like, and left well enough alone.
As for where is 'Home', I have always beleived in the saying 'Home is where the heart is'. My heart, fortunately or not, is not always in one place. Yes, I do love Pakistan, and really start to LIVE in the true sense of the word when I am there. There is a lot wrong with that place I realize, and I am not going to defend the undefensible.
And yes, I love it here in Canada. I think, for me, it is the perfect country.
But where is my heart currently? .......Thats the million dollar question....

Got cha!!! For all the years that I've been in Dubai, the best I can say is that it is my second home - home away from home. My home is the US and always will be.

Your heart belongs to the one you love.

So the "rights" that you seek is not to be treated like a foreigner by virtue of not having to renew your visa. Do you think having a visa that doesn't have to be renewed, gives you the right to live in the UAE indefinitely would disqualify you from being a foreigner? If you aren't a foreigner, and you aren't a national, then what category would you fall into? What countries allow an expat a visa that allows them to live in that country on a long term basis and not consider them as "foreigners"?

When I was telling you about UAE citizenship that we deserve, you stated that why don't I go somewhere else and get a passport like I was dying to get hold of any passport out there. I was born and raised in UAE, UAE is my home. My family migrated to UAE from Pakistan on foot in the late 1950's.

South Asian muslims can immigrate the same way Arab muslims can. Granted it is tougher today, but it's still possible. Have you tried??

I did applied for a student Visa once for Australia, but got rejected for not having enough funds in my bank account.

Who is to say that you wouldn't be happier somewhere else in a country that gives you the opportunity to make that country your home?

I totally agree that I do need to move to some other country and I do plan to in the future. I have lived here long enough to know that.

Khalid, you are a FOREIGNER living in the UAE!!! You need to come to terms with that fact. YOU made the UAE your home, but you can't make it your home country.

Look Bora, I don't and will never consider myself a foreigner in UAE no matter what my passport says or what the UAE authorities say. Like you said Your heart belongs to the one you love.

But I am also not holding out for a miracle either. That is why I am studying to become a software engineer. My only intention was to let people know about the expat families living here since when oil wasn't even discovered, not to start a compaign or beg for UAE citizenship. I was just stating what's right.

Khalid021 wrote:My family migrated to UAE from Pakistan on foot in the late 1950's.

Whether they walked on water or all the way around the Persian Gulf, they certainly get my respect!

Thanks. They walked all the way around the Persian gulf . They were part of a caravan.

What was up with the bus?

Bora, NOW you got it!

Actually Zonker, I was referring to getting you!!!, not the issue about "rights". I still want to know exactly what rights are being referred to. A list would certainly help.

I have been turning over this "rights" issue in my head and I'm very curious as to what "rights" a person who grew up in the UAE feels are being denied them. To say one doesn't want to be treated like a "foreigner" and yet is not a citizen, would mean they would fall somewhere in between. How should locals treat an expat who is a foreigner, but doesn't consider himself one, and yet is not a citizen??

Khalid:

Look Bora, I don't and will never consider myself a foreigner in UAE no matter what my passport says or what the UAE authorities say.

Khalid, you can call yourself whatever you want, it isn't going to change a thing. If you aren't a foreigner/expat, and you aren't a citizen, what are you?? You would also be helping me out to understand the whole "rights" thing, if you answered my above post to Zonker.

Khalid, you can call yourself whatever you want, it isn't going to change a thing. If you aren't a foreigner/expat, and you aren't a citizen, what are you??

I know it won't change anything, this is just how I feel. Just like you will always be an American in your heart no matter what, I also will always be an Emirati in my heart. As for the question where do I fall between a citizen and foreigner, well, this problem has been created by the UAE government, not me. I know I am not a citizen but I am also not a foreigner.

As for the rights, My father has worked at his government job for 35 years and never once promoted. He just gets 'Thank you for your hard work' notes. And younger UAE nationals are his superiors even though they don't know shit about their work.
My brother was kicked out of his job to make room for a UAE national. I even have certificates of my brother stating that he was actually great at his job.
One of my friends who is also an old expat like me, is currently studying in UK. Once,While he was about to return to UAE after almost 6 months,he got delayed a bit because of some problems with his paperwork. His father went to immigration authorities and requested them not cancel his UAE visa and to give his a son a few more days. They declined. He even told them that he was born in UAE. To this they said that they don't give a sh.i.t.

Right to not be discriminated against.
Right to Equal pay
Right to Government services which are now provided only to UAE nationals
Right to equal opportunities in Jobs
Right to live here permanently

I know all the expats go through this. But it is very difficult to tolerate and accept, for expats who were born here.

It's very easy for you Bora and BM to be dismissive to people like us because you don't know how we actually feel and what we go through. And like I said, I am planning to move to another country, I am not being stubborn about staying here.

Khalid021 wrote:I know all the expats go through this. But it is very difficult to tolerate and accept, for expats who were born here.

The idealistic world you talk about unfortunately doesnt exist

It exists for UAE nationals. Many of my friends and some relatives are UAE nationals.

You mean a foreigner has been naturalized to a citizen of the emirates ? And how and when did they do this ?

Khalid, I feel sorry for you, I really do, but I can't help but think the UAE government have got it right. If you move to another country do you think you should be treated like one of their own? If you came to the UK and took a job one of my kids could do then I wouldn't like it one bit. You are a Pakistani, what's the problem with going back there if you aren't satisfied in Dubai? If you like Dubai so much then you will just have to accept it, warts and all. There are many many things I don't like about England. I hate the way we give our passport to any Tom, banana or Harry. The perfect country does not exist I'm afraid, you just have to make the most of the deal you are dealt.

Thank you for understanding but I can't go to Pakistan. I can't go there and live there because it's a very dangerous place to live. Don't you hear it in the news; the sectarian violence, Suicide bombings, F^cked up economy. I do love UAE but as much as like, it's very difficult for me accept that I am a foreigner. Look Bm, you shouldn't be hard on your govt giving citizenship to immigrants as long as they are law abiding. You should know that even the British Royal Family have German and French roots. The Britons have also died out long time ago and most of the white british people are actually decendents of Germanic Tribes.

You mean a foreigner has been naturalized to a citizen of the emirates ? And how and when did they do this ?

Check my earlier post how most of the UAE nationals got their citizenship.

Khalid021 wrote:

You mean a foreigner has been naturalized to a citizen of the emirates ? And how and when did they do this ?

Check my earlier post how most of the UAE nationals got their citizenship.

I see, well unfortunately that circumstance doesn't exist in the current moment in time, Therefore naturalization is not possible in the gCC

Khalid021 wrote:Thank you for understanding but I can't go to Pakistan. I can't go there and live there because it's a very dangerous place to live. Don't you hear it in the news; the sectarian violence, Suicide bombings, F^cked up economy. I do love UAE but as much as like, it's very difficult for me accept that I am a foreigner. Look Bm, you shouldn't be hard on your govt giving citizenship to immigrants as long as they are law abiding. You should know that even the British Royal Family have German and French roots. The Britons have also died out long time ago and most of the white british people are actually decendents of Germanic Tribes.

You mean a foreigner has been naturalized to a citizen of the emirates ? And how and when did they do this ?

Check my earlier post how most of the UAE nationals got their citizenship.

I do see the news Khalid and I know Pakistan is not in a good place, al the more reason to try and change things in your own country.
I am hard on my Government, Khalid, England is full, we can't accomodate anyone else, we can't afford it. It is about time we started looking after our own. I don't dispute that our Royal Family have foreign DNA, I don't rate them very highly either, not because to the German roots though, we are all mongrels to a degree.

Khalid, I'm not being dismissive, I'm a realist. Once a person can see the reality of a situation, better decisions can be made. For as progressive as Dubai is, it's still, IMO, borderline 3rd world in the fact that it still operates with a "tribal" mentality. They take care of their own clan. Law and justice don't go hand in hand in the UAE.

I wish you the very best in your efforts to relocate. Hopefully you will make somewhere else home, where you will get all the rights you seek. The legacy of your family, a very rich one, and how they traveled to the UAE will be passed down to your children, and their children, and along with your family's legacy, you will have your own legacy as well: how you travelled to another country to have a better life.

oh man!

i dont get it, if you are a paki you are a paki regardless of wherever you are born or whichever passport you have got!

khalid you are a pakistani! Khalas. As for not going back to pakistan. Sorry but BS! I mean millions of people live in Pakistan so why can't you?

Bora Bora wrote:Actually Zonker, I was referring to getting you!!!, not the issue about "rights". I still want to know exactly what rights are being referred to. A list would certainly help.

I have been turning over this "rights" issue in my head and I'm very curious as to what "rights" a person who grew up in the UAE feels are being denied them. To say one doesn't want to be treated like a "foreigner" and yet is not a citizen, would mean they would fall somewhere in between. How should locals treat an expat who is a foreigner, but doesn't consider himself one, and yet is not a citizen??

Khalid:

Look Bora, I don't and will never consider myself a foreigner in UAE no matter what my passport says or what the UAE authorities say.

Khalid, you can call yourself whatever you want, it isn't going to change a thing. If you aren't a foreigner/expat, and you aren't a citizen, what are you?? You would also be helping me out to understand the whole "rights" thing, if you answered my above post to Zonker.

Bora, how can you "get me", when I haven't got myself, and that after living in the same skin for decades!
Our sticking point seems to be on the issue of "rights". Well, I have done a quick search on the 'net, and there is reams written there about "human rights". Allow me to copy/paste just from one site: Human Rights in British Columbia:

In B.C., it is illegal to discriminate against
or harass a person because of their:
ƒ race;
ƒ colour;
ƒ ancestry;
ƒ place of origin;
ƒ religion;
ƒ marital status;
ƒ family status;
ƒ physical or mental
disability;
ƒ sex (includes pregnancy,
breastfeeding, and
sexual harassment);
ƒ sexual orientation;
ƒ age (19 and over);
ƒ criminal conviction
(in employment only);
ƒ political belief (in
employment only);
ƒ lawful source of income
(in tenancy)

Further more, there is a Human Rights Code of BC, and just one of its tenets reads as follows:

ƒ [b]If you have been singled out and treated differently
and poorly, compared to others;[/b]
ƒ you are being treated differently and poorly
because of a personal characteristic, such as your
race, colour, religious belief, sex, mental or physical
disability, or sexual orientation; and
ƒ the treatment occurred in a public situation, for
example, at work, in a store or restaurant, or
between a landlord and tenant.

This is the LAW here Bora, and I am perfectly satisfied with that.

@Khalid : I hope you will remember one thing: if you dont have self-respect, dont expect others to respect you. If you declare yourself from Pakistan, then proceed to throw dirt on it, dont expect any one else here to come out and sypathise with you.
Your parents left Pakistan decades ago; you were born in the UAE, you are no longer a Pakistani, you should be a citizen of the UAE. If they dont give you citizenship, then you are that most unfortunate of individuals: a "stateless" person. An anomaly very much alive in the UAE, and something that I am moaning about here. PEACE

@Khalid : I hope you will remember one thing: if you dont have self-respect, dont expect others to respect you. If you declare yourself from Pakistan, then proceed to throw dirt on it, dont expect any one else here to come out and sypathise with you.

I apologise, if I have offended other Pakistanis. I was only stating facts. I don't have any problem with other pakistanis, I was just dissing the pakistani Government and the Islamic parties there. Just to let you know, that I am a great admirer of Abdul Sattar Edhi.

I wish you the very best in your efforts to relocate. Hopefully you will make somewhere else home, where you will get all the rights you seek. The legacy of your family, a very rich one, and how they traveled to the UAE will be passed down to your children, and their children, and along with your family's legacy, you will have your own legacy as well: how you travelled to another country to have a better life..

Thanks for the kind words and support. I hate the tribe mentality here as well and I know this country has lot of problems to deal with.

i dont get it, if you are a paki you are a paki regardless of wherever you are born or whichever passport you have got!
khalid you are a pakistani! Khalas. As for not going back to pakistan. Sorry but BS! I mean millions of people live in Pakistan so why can't you?

You do know that paki is an offensive word, don't you?
I personally know a very famous Emirati singer who is actually a Pakistani and this singer is the source of pride for many emiratis. I also know that some very powerful emirati men in the UAE police and the Armed forces are actually not arabs. Stop living in your small bubble, and do realize that many foreigners have become citizens of UAE. As for going back to Pakistan, you know what, it's just useless to tell you, because you will never get it.

Khalid, why do feel that Paki is an offensive word? I never get that! I don't mind being called a Brit and I refer to people as Yanks and Aussies. It's just a word. You shouldn't be offended by it.