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No spin here , Dubai World lost its case

http://sofloreporter.wordpress.com/2011 ... -update-2/

gertrude wrote:No spin here , Dubai World lost its case

http://sofloreporter.wordpress.com/2011 ... -update-2/

Yes - and in the same article, Herve lost on two counts also - failure to provide the submarines and abuse of process.

I think we can all agree that neither side actually came out of this with much of a victory, and as Bora said, the real winners were the lawyers.

But Herve got a lot of publicity for his book, etc, so he will win in the long run.....

benwj wrote:You mean I was being tracked when I took that rental Prado dune bashing?

Most probably and if there was some damage and you denied it, they would pull up the trace..

Dubai World lawsuit was not about money, rather to discredit me and my story.
It does make sense to spend $8Millions Dollars to claim $2M.
The real objective of Dubai World was to stop my book, the publishing of my story, the making of a movie.
All along the lawsuit Dubai World requested "privately" that my book to be destroyed as a "settlement", I told them to 7uck off!
In the end, i may not have won my one and only claim but they failed, I was up against a giant, my reputation is cleared, I will build submarines again, my book is running, my story goes on and it will be featured in a motion picture.
They also proved that Dubai Court is corrupt, how can I be sentenced to 5 years in prison in Dubai, and cleared of all charges in the US. Now you can apply that to the other foreigners in jail and assume that they too, have been wrongfully convicted. Dubai opened a pandora box.
And as of the other judgement is not against me at all, but against a company that does not exist. There is nothing to collect.

BlueOrb wrote:

gertrude wrote:No spin here , Dubai World lost its case

http://sofloreporter.wordpress.com/2011 ... -update-2/

Yes - and in the same article, Herve lost on two counts also - failure to provide the submarines and abuse of process.

I think we can all agree that neither side actually came out of this with much of a victory, and as Bora said, the real winners were the lawyers.

But Herve got a lot of publicity for his book, etc, so he will win in the long run.....

Halleluya! Blueorb! The penny drops. I'm impressed! There is no such thing as bad publicity!
You still don't get it about the failure to provide the submarines tho, do you? Can I spell it out again? Please feel free if my English isn't plain enough for you!
Herve was told to put the delivery of the subs on hold by SBS, With me so far? He failed to have the contract amended. On hindsight, a mistake on Herve's part. The Judge awarded judgement to DW against a company which hasn't existed for over 4 years. Now do you get it?
On the account of abuse of process, I refer you back to VW's post! Please do read it and take time for it to sink in. Take your time, read and digest and come back if you still have a problem understanding it. I have patience, I've done a course in dealing with retards.

Bora Bora wrote:

benwj wrote:No one is defending the actions of DW, but DW is continually attacked, whilst herve is ignored.

Benwa, DW is more than welcome to join DF and give their side of the story.

LOl wouldn't that be something!!

Misery Called Life wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:

benwj wrote:No one is defending the actions of DW, but DW is continually attacked, whilst herve is ignored.

Benwa, DW is more than welcome to join DF and give their side of the story.

LOl wouldn't that be something!!

I think they're already here MCL, in one form or another! Hello DW!

Bethsmum wrote:

BlueOrb wrote:

gertrude wrote:No spin here , Dubai World lost its case

http://sofloreporter.wordpress.com/2011 ... -update-2/

Yes - and in the same article, Herve lost on two counts also - failure to provide the submarines and abuse of process.

I think we can all agree that neither side actually came out of this with much of a victory, and as Bora said, the real winners were the lawyers.

But Herve got a lot of publicity for his book, etc, so he will win in the long run.....

Halleluya! Blueorb! The penny drops. I'm impressed! There is no such thing as bad publicity!
You still don't get it about the failure to provide the submarines tho, do you? Can I spell it out again? Please feel free if my English isn't plain enough for you!
Herve was told to put the delivery of the subs on hold by SBS, With me so far? He failed to have the contract amended. On hindsight, a mistake on Herve's part. The Judge awarded judgement to DW against a company which hasn't existed for over 4 years. Now do you get it?
On the account of abuse of process, I refer you back to VW's post! Please do read it and take time for it to sink in. Take your time, read and digest and come back if you still have a problem understanding it. I have patience, I've done a course in dealing with retards.

Don't patronise me. And don't refer to me as a retard, directly or indirectly.

You can't help yourself....you have to impose your opinion on everyone, and resort to starting fights with your condescending attitude. I thought the rules had changed here? Obviously you haven't quite taken it on board, eh?

I'm not impressed by you, and find people who constantly refer to themselves in the third person as arrogant.

I've no wish to get into fights here, so please try and have the debate without starting one with insults.

Asking the impossible here mate.

herve wrote:Dubai World lawsuit was not about money, rather to discredit me and my story.
It does make sense to spend $8Millions Dollars to claim $2M.

No, it doesn't make sense. But you were first to raise a case, so them attempting to discredit you seems more like a defense plan to me. Or they may have just wanted to avoid giving you any more money... at any cost to themselves.
You know... like when you are asking 100,000 dirham for a car, and a Leb comes along and says "50,000 last price"... and you say "7uck off mate, I'd rather set fire to it".

herve wrote:The real objective of Dubai World was to stop my book, the publishing of my story, the making of a movie.
All along the lawsuit Dubai World requested "privately" that my book to be destroyed as a "settlement", I told them to 7uck off!

Your real objective is also becoming clearer.

herve wrote:In the end, i may not have won my one and only claim but they failed, I was up against a giant, my reputation is cleared, I will build submarines again, my book is running,

One minute you are up against the keystone cops. The next you are up against a giant who you have no chance against. Make your mind up.

Your reputation is no different.
You were paid handsomely for your services by DW and profiteered from selling parts them.
You wrote a book and attempted to claim more money from them via the US court system.
And now "my story goes on and it will be featured in a motion picture."
I honestly don't know what all of your complaining is about.
It seems to me as though you would still be just a quack submarine builder if you didn't bump into DW.

herve wrote:They also proved that Dubai Court is corrupt, how can I be sentenced to 5 years in prison in Dubai, and cleared of all charges in the US. Now you can apply that to the other foreigners in jail and assume that they too, have been wrongfully convicted. Dubai opened a pandora box.

DW was cleared of all charges in the US also. Yes, they certainly do have a laudable justice system don't they?

herve wrote:And as of the other judgement is not against me at all, but against a company that does not exist. There is nothing to collect.

But you yourself said it wasn't about the money. It was about your reputation, which is only confirmed by this comment.

Ben, there was a point a little while ago when you nearly had this debate in the bag ...

The recording made him look a bit silly, you had the moral high ground, enough said;

but now you have reverted to the nonsense about how Herve was profiteering at DW's expense, nah don't think so, in fact I know so. You can't win, DW and their lawyers did not, what makes you think you can ?

The only reasoning that anyone can logically arrive at is that you are on a mission, perhaps even a sponsored one ...

I said nothing about the recording.
As herve said, it was of little value and nothing can be proven either way.
Although I did find it an unusual lapse in judgement to leave it in the phone and not download it to a USB stick to take with him. If only to sell to his grandkids.

Are you trying to tell me that DW broke the contract by not paying herve anything, AND did not pay for any of the equipment and parts purchased via his own buisness?

Oh, in that case herve, I really feel for you man. You must me several million out of pocket, rather than several million up as I had mistakenly thought.

Benjw, actually it s Dubai who raised the case first, by convicting me in absentia , only then I sued them in the US

BlueOrb wrote:
Don't patronise me. And don't refer to me as a retard, directly or indirectly.

You can't help yourself....you have to impose your opinion on everyone, and resort to starting fights with your condescending attitude. I thought the rules had changed here? Obviously you haven't quite taken it on board, eh?

I'm not impressed by you, and find people who constantly refer to themselves in the third person as arrogant.

I've no wish to get into fights here, so please try and have the debate without starting one with insults.

Let's get one thing straight, there are a few people on this forum who's opinion on me matters to me, you aren't one of those. You're not impressed by me? Well seeing as I'm not out to impress anyone, that's hardly surprising, is it?
By your own admission you are an infrequent poster here, yet you choose this topic to jump in on and appear to be on a mission to discredit Herve. Why is that, if I may ask?
You claim to have a story, but you won't give details, that could be 100 times worse than Herves, for all we know, you add. Well, do share! I have to warn you though, you won't get much support from your fellow DFers, who prefer to kick a man when he's down. You will get some random person coming on firing questions at you and when they don't get an answer, they will just presume they know it! How arrogant is THAT? You could write a book! No wait! People will just see that as publicity seeking.

Blueorb, if you have something new to say, I'm interested in hearing but don't repost points that have already been answered by Herve or VW. Is it that you aren't paying attention, don't grasp the answers or just don't believe them? If it's the later, then just say it for clarity, as reposting points that have already been address is just plain tiresome. (And BM is not impressed LOL)

-- Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:44 am --

desertdudeshj wrote:Asking the impossible here mate.

Sit quietly munchkin.......

I have intentionally restricted my comments with reference to the outcome of the trial, to Herve’s claims of innocence and vindication. Isn’t that what this and all previous forum discussions have really all been about? I haven’t commented on Dubai’s legal or Judicial system because I believe it is widely accepted by locals and expatriates alike that it is flawed and discriminatory, I haven’t commented on SBS and DW because again, it is widely accepted that the whole organisation from top to bottom was rotten to the core and riddled with corruption, a corruption that I believe has been proven in Dubai to have spread into several of it’s subsidiaries.

It is known that a case was brought in Dubai where HJ was found guilty in absentia on charges of fraud and theft, HJ can return to Dubai and demand a retrial but we all know that’s unlikely to happen for the same reasons I stated earlier. After the latest case heard recently in Florida, the following was found;

The Jury returned verdicts of not guilty to all the charges brought against DW.

The Jury returned verdicts of not guilty to all the charges brought against HJ.

The Jury awarded no damages claimed by both parties against each other.

The Judge ruled on two counts of breach of contract against a company owned by HJ which ceased trading some Years earlier.

So both parties are winners, Right? HJ can walk away vindicated of all charges brought against him in Florida by DW.

DW can walk away vindicated of all charges brought against them in Florida, and everybody’s happy, right?

Wrong, because both parties also failed miserably in their actions against each other, there was no real closure for anyone in this civil action, and isn’t this the reason for a case such as this, to let a jury of your peers decide who is right and who is wrong in a dispute to provide justice and closure for the victim, and penalty to the guilty?

In politics this would be seen as a hung parliament? so why did the Jury take 6 Hours to say ‘we don’t believe any of them’? well your guess is as good as mine and I would imagine that this discussion will continue with HJ’s supporters providing the answers to his critics who will continue to pose their questions until satisfied.

One question I find myself asking is, why did it all kick off in the first place? New startup company in a Business Incubator, pots of money available, a product designed around an existing matured technology and HJ, a capable individual with a background in leisure submarine manufacturing, and yet, four/five Years later there are no submarines to be seen, even the two prototypes delivered earlier, incomplete! One would have thought that in light of the prevailing political and economic pressures leading up to HJ’s eventual flight, Exomos would have produced at least one tangible product to silence their critics.

And for clarity, I mean a product advertised for sale with guarantees, warranties, operational and maintenance manuals, product support and training, perhaps even in a choice of colours! And not the random youtube videos of prototypes, commissioning and sea trials we have seen as ‘evidence’ of a product.

Still, that’s just my question? for what it’s worth and BM, I may have quoted additional closing statements in my earlier post had I been able to find them and of course agreed with them.

I sincerely hope Herve has found the closure he was seeking from the trial and can move on from his usual vitriolic style of posting and hatred of everything Dubai and contribute more positively in the future.

Regards

I have a question.

If DW was awarded $336,000 for breach of contract against a company that no longer exists, who pays that award? Or is that judgment basically moot?

@ BM.

I dont believe i have been reposting points tht have been answered. I have, though, asked the same question more than once that has yet (even now) to receive an answer direct from the horses mouth. Nothing wrong with that - it is making the point that it would appear that no working submarines exist. Which i think is an important point to note in this whole saga.

I have no agenda when it comes to this. I was merely taking part in the debate, which is, after all, what we are all here for.

Yes, i am an infrequent poster - because i only feel the need to contribute to threads that interest me, rather than get involved in everything. This forum is not the be all and end all of my life.

And given the goings on over the last few months, i really don't want to be a part of that. Watching the forum (almost) implode with all the insults and in fighting does put either new posters or infrequent posters off from contributing anything.

It's OK to have an opinion, whether others like it or not. You have chosen to be a Herve supporter. I prefer to reserve judgement and ask some questions first. I have already stated that i am sure something bad did happen, but just feel that as a business, it (and Herve), failed to deliver, an so there is blame on both sides, which the court verdict in the US effectively recognised.

Easy there fella, don't let the neighsayers phase you, just shrug them off and deny them the attention they desperately seek. Obviously you have intresting things to share and discuss so don't let anybody put you off from it. God knows this place needs more normal people you. You have enough right as anybody to take part in any discussion and don't let anybody tell you any different.

Keep on rolling bro. Hope to see you become more active in the future.

Cheers

BlueOrb wrote:@ BM.

I dont believe i have been reposting points tht have been answered. I have, though, asked the same question more than once that has yet (even now) to receive an answer direct from the horses mouth. Nothing wrong with that - it is making the point that it would appear that no working submarines exist. Which i think is an important point to note in this whole saga.

I have no agenda when it comes to this. I was merely taking part in the debate, which is, after all, what we are all here for.

Yes, i am an infrequent poster - because i only feel the need to contribute to threads that interest me, rather than get involved in everything. This forum is not the be all and end all of my life.

And given the goings on over the last few months, i really don't want to be a part of that. Watching the forum (almost) implode with all the insults and in fighting does put either new posters or infrequent posters off from contributing anything.

It's OK to have an opinion, whether others like it or not. You have chosen to be a Herve supporter. I prefer to reserve judgement and ask some questions first. I have already stated that i am sure something bad did happen, but just feel that as a business, it (and Herve), failed to deliver, an so there is blame on both sides, which the court verdict in the US effectively recognised.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. I think you are reposting points that have been answered. Why did you have to point out that the failure to provide the subs? Herve has already explained what happened. Why have you chosen not to aknowledge his explanation? If you don't think he's telling the truth, just say so.
You asked the question about whether there were any subs in operation. Herve hasn't answered. As he has been bombarded with questions here, it's understandable that he may have missed yours, but instead you take it upon yourself to presume the answer is none. I call that plain arrogance.
I have to say it does look like you have an agenda to me. An agenda to make my friend feel as uncomfortable as possible.
As for your comments about posters being put off from posting, I really don't think that's relevant, it hasn't put you off after all, has it? That's a good thing BTW. As I said previously if you have any new points to bring to the table, I'm more than happy to read them but what I find offensive is you having a go at Herve just for the sake of it. There really is no need. Why can't you just show a fellow forumer a bit of moral support in hard times? It doesn't cost anything to give someone a break.

-- Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:52 pm --

desertdudeshj wrote:Easy there fella, don't let the neighsayers phase you, just shrug them off and deny them the attention they desperately seek. Obviously you have intresting things to share and discuss so don't let anybody put you off from it. God knows this place needs more normal people you. You have enough right as anybody to take part in any discussion and don't let anybody tell you any different.

Keep on rolling bro. Hope to see you become more active in the future.

Cheers

Munchkin, do leave your personal agenda at the door when entering here. I am not trying to phase Blueorb, I'm sure he/she is more than capable in speaking for him/herself. Nobody is trying to put anyone off or tell them not to contribute, I'm not the one who brags about driving people off DF, am I, bro?

-- Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:04 pm --

@Dillon

for what it’s worth and BM, I may have quoted additional closing statements in my earlier post had I been able to find them and of course agreed with them

.

Thanks for the explanation, Dillon.

I have to say I have found all this negativity towards Herve much more upsetting than any of the abuse that I have received at the hands of DFers in all my time here. And that includes being refered to as a whore by someone in particular.

And maybe you could show the same courtesy to someone who is not your "shag list" aswell for a change. Blue asked a valid question which still Herve hasn't answered. I for one would also like to see what Herve has to say in that regards as Blue puts it straight from the horses mouth.

Herve is here with an agenda, no two ways about it and if he keeps on posting in a similar manner, then don't expect to be given a break anytime soon. Expect to be grilled and grilled hard.

As for the rest, not biting, go fish !

desertdudeshj wrote:And maybe you could show the same courtesy to someone who is not your "shag list" aswell for a change. Blue asked a valid question which still Herve hasn't answered. I for one would also like to see what Herve has to say in that regards as Blue puts it straight from the horses mouth.

Herve is here with an agenda, no two ways about it and if he keeps on posting in a similar manner, then don't expect to be given a break anytime soon. Expect to be grilled and grilled hard.

As for the rest, not biting, go fish !

DDS you are a fine one to ask for courtesy. Stop trying to rally support, it really looks rather pathetic. Are you trying to pick a fight?

-- Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:10 pm --

BTW I don't think Herve has anything to be worried about if it's you doing the grilling LOL

Dillon wrote: One question I find myself asking is, why did it all kick off in the first place? New startup company in a Business Incubator, pots of money available, a product designed around an existing matured technology and HJ, a capable individual with a background in leisure submarine manufacturing, and yet, four/five Years later there are no submarines to be seen, even the two prototypes delivered earlier, incomplete! One would have thought that in light of the prevailing political and economic pressures leading up to HJ’s eventual flight, Exomos would have produced at least one tangible product to silence their critics.

And for clarity, I mean a product advertised for sale with guarantees, warranties, operational and maintenance manuals, product support and training, perhaps even in a choice of colours! And not the random youtube videos of prototypes, commissioning and sea trials we have seen as ‘evidence’ of a product.

Still, that’s just my question? for what it’s worth and BM, I may have quoted additional closing statements in my earlier post had I been able to find them and of course agreed with them.

I sincerely hope Herve has found the closure he was seeking from the trial and can move on from his usual vitriolic style of posting and hatred of everything Dubai and contribute more positively in the future.

Regards

Dillon your analyse is accurate but you got the dates wrong. I started beginning 2005, and DW pulled the plug mid 2006, it s far from the 4 5 years you mentionned. And who creates, builds a 100,000 sqft factory with a line of a dozen vessels and generates sales in 1year and half.
I had 5 submarines in operation and even Dw admitted in court that my team performed 400 dives. Four hundred dives!!!!!!
It all quicked off because i stood up in front of them, escaped from a beach while they had my passport, and wrote about it, telling everywhere that Dubai is a fraud.
Yes Bora, that $340,000 judgment is moot because the company does not exist anymore. The judgment is not against me.
My only contribution will be to warn people that investing and traveling to Dubai is a bad decision.

Well I have to say that if the judge awarded DW $340,000 against a company that doesn't exist, that surely isn't much for DW to blow their horns about. I guess while DW was getting their PR spin to the press of their victory, they forgot to mention that minor point. To me, it's rather funny that the judge ruled in their favor knowing that they weren't getting anything. Maybe the judge had a sense of humor.

herve wrote:Yes Bora, that $340,000 judgment is moot because the company does not exist anymore. The judgment is not against me.
My only contribution will be to warn people that investing and traveling to Dubai is a bad decision.

The only reason why YOU don't have to pay $340,000 is because YOU shutdown the company that YOU owned and operated. But you still have the audacity to say that the judgement had nothing to do with you.
Do you not have any morals?
You can warn people, but like yourself and others have in the past, people come to Dubai for GREED and they will keep comeing for this exact reason.

benwj wrote:The only reason why YOU don't have to pay $340,000 is because YOU shutdown the company that YOU owned and operated. But you still have the audacity to say that the judgement had nothing to do with you.
Do you not have any morals?
You can warn people, but like yourself and others have in the past, people come to Dubai for GREED and they will keep comeing for this exact reason.

OUCH!!! First, not ALL people who come to Dubai with greed as a reason for coming. I really don't think most people who get "caught up in the money" come with the intention of doing so. People come here for many different reasons. If coming here because there was an opportunity to make more money, that's not greed. People want to advance in their career and with that advancement comes money. If people are out of work and have a job offer to work in Dubai, that's not greed.

Speaking for myself, the first time we came to the region was for my husband to get experience in his industry, and trust me we scrapped by initially. When we left (he was making decent money, but by no means alot of money) it was due to circumstances beyond our control, and we didn't have much of a choice. My husband returned to the region one year later (2002) because he could not secure a job in the states in the industry he works because he was an Arab, a muslim, and Arab muslims were not exactly the flavor of the month after 9/11. Why did you come to Dubai Bewj?

Many people get tempted because they can see how easy it is to get their hands on "easy" money, and unfortunately too many people fall victim to that temptation and act on it. The other side is that many also become victims and are used as scapegoats even when they did no wrong - they get thrown under the bus by someone who got caught. The fact that there is no transparency in many companies, no checks and balances, no proper accounting, no accountability, and very important, poor management, it leaves those companies open to temptation, people acting on that temptation, and that is where the greed kicks in. GREED doesn't discriminate. It's not an expat "disease".

NO Benjw, not at all.
Seahorse was closed in April 2006, DW was fully aware, no problems then.
Then DW sued Seahorse in September 2009, 3 years and half after it was closed, how stupid is that.

benwj wrote:

herve wrote:Yes Bora, that $340,000 judgment is moot because the company does not exist anymore. The judgment is not against me.
My only contribution will be to warn people that investing and traveling to Dubai is a bad decision.

The only reason why YOU don't have to pay $340,000 is because YOU shutdown the company that YOU owned and operated. But you still have the audacity to say that the judgement had nothing to do with you.
Do you not have any morals?
You can warn people, but like yourself and others have in the past, people come to Dubai for GREED and they will keep comeing for this exact reason.

ben, it's no different in the UK. A person is not personally liable for their companies debts. As Herve says the company was shut down long before DW took any action against it. In my line of work I see people closing businesses all the time when their debts become unmanagable and start a new business the next day. Now that's morally wrong. Herve's business didn't have debts, that's not the reason it was closed.
I would think that the Judge had no option but to award against Seahorse Submarines because the subs weren't delivered. Herve has clarified why not, he was told to put them on hold by SBS. The fact that he was awarding costs against a company that closed years ago is by the by. I'm afraid that's business for you.

I think people are really missing the point of HJs suit. I don't think it was about money more than it was about his reputation. When a man's dignity, honor, and reputation is attacked, you either break him or create an animal.

I can relate very well to HJ in that regard because that was what had been done to my husband. He was not broken because he never lost faith in himself and knew what was done was malicious and false, but he became a sleeping animal and when the opportunity came to return to Dubai it was also his opportunity to reverse the damage that was done to his dignity, honor, pride and reputation. When we left we left behind some very loyal friends who were still our friends when we returned. He accomplished the reversal, it took time but he did it. He is well known, respected, trusted and has a wonderful, solid reputation. He proved that what was done to him was an injustice. Now people know who and what that person is who challenged my husband. That person is still around - talk about the luck of the Irish (and ALL of his puppets have left Dubai) and he knows my husband has "won". For some you can't put a price on their dignity, honor and reputation, all of which are more valuable than money. So for HJ to be exonerated by virtue of DW not winning their case, is satisfaction enough.

Bora, Dubai has always attracted people with money. Whether it’s the Indian laborer or the British financial manager. They all come for the same reason.
Herve himself made money.
Now he is diss'n the people that he made money from. Not only that, but when they are awarded a negligible amount in damages his response is: too bad the company is history, I'll start another one soon enough.

I think its a big case of sour grapes all around.