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Expats, regardless where they are from or the position they hold, would find themselves on a plane in no time should they try uprising. The only "uprising", without any repercussions, I recall was a march attended by quite a few laborers, and had to do mostly with their wages being withheld and they wanted the government to know what was going on and help them to collect they money.

In comparison to other countries, Dubai and AD have take very good care of their own. The locals certainly aren't going to bite the hand that feeds them.

Over the last couple of years the life for the working class labourer's has gotten a lot better in the UAE. You now have the WPS and there has to be a work contract stating hours, rights, flights home, etc for every individual. As a result there are also a lot more cases against employers going on now and also a lot happier employees. Also now you can move between employers without the "stamp" cost after working with one employer for 6 months - before you needed to pay a few thousand dhirrams to achieve that which kept labour tied into an employer and presumably lower wages.

Can't see indians/pakistani's revolting - they come here to work and make more $$. The locals - no way can I see a revolt/protest - they would have to stand in the heat.

If they get paid they don't. I had the luck of almost getting stuck in one here, workers working on that last tower on your right as you head off to abu dhabi basically closed SZR in both directions for an hour or so by standing in the middle of it. This was last year and was a dispute about wages.

As far as I can remember only one radio station reported it in brief just a few times. last I heard they were being called or rather herded into the MOL for talks to clear the matter. Never heard about it again, also the site stood still for around a month after that.

Why do so many people here believe that all the expats are either labourers or/and have just been living in UAE for no more than a decade. There are a lot of Expat families in UAE who have been living here even before United Arab Emirates was formed and they do deserve citizenship and other rights which are given to UAE nationals.

Some of you may respond with "Well, it's not their country". Then I have another news for you, more than half of UAE nationals are not originally from UAE. Some of them are not even Arabs. How they got their citizenship? Either burning or hiding their passports and other documents in the 70's or 80's thus becoming stateless (Very Risky, not all of them succeeded), Getting married to a UAE national or those who were directly under the employment of the rulers of this country.

Khalid021 wrote:Why do so many people here believe that all the expats are either labourers or/and have just been living in UAE for no more than a decade. There are a lot of Expat families in UAE who have been living here even before United Arab Emirates was formed and they do deserve citizenship and other rights which are given to UAE nationals.

Some of you may respond with "Well, it's not their country". Then I have another news for you, more than half of UAE nationals are not originally from UAE. Some of them are not even Arabs. How they got their citizenship? Either getting rid of their passports in the 70's or 80's thus becoming stateless (Very Risky, not all of them succeeded), Getting married to a UAE national or those who were directly under the employment of the rulers of this country.

There are a great many UAE nationals that have Iranian bloodline.
Marry a UAE national and getting the passport would apply to expat women.
Those employed by the rulers - what nationalities would that be?

Those that were here "since the beginning" were Indian and British. The British, as far as I am aware, never sought the passport. On the other hand, it appears that it is Indians, the majority of who are not muslim, and pakistanis who have been here the longest and feel they "deserve" the passport. Maybe if they were ARAB and MUSLIM some consideration would have been given. This is an Arab muslim country and there is nothing wrong with the rulers and the UAE nationals wanting to keep it that way. Do you have any idea the knock off effect it would have over time on the GCC if they gave passports to Indians and Pakistanis?

There are plenty of countries they can migrate to that are willing to give anyone a passport.

"There are plenty of countries they can migrate to that are willing to give anyone a passport."

I agree but the issue is not only passport, it is the place you were born and raised in, a place you consider it to be your home but still treated like a foreigner. A place where you have adopted their culture and language but still it doesn't want to accept you as it's own. Also it's not that easy to migrate to another country as you would like to believe.


"Maybe if they were ARAB and MUSLIM some consideration would have been given."

When did Iranians became Arabs? Yet many of them have UAE citizenship.


"Marry a UAE national and getting the passport would apply to expat women."

Sure now it applies to only expat women but it did applied to expat men 17 years ago.


"There are a great many UAE nationals that have Iranian bloodline."

There are also great many UAE nationals who have Indian/Pakistani Bloodline. Infact some of the most powerful families in UAE have either Indian or Pakistani origins.


"Those employed by the rulers - what nationalities would that be?"

Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis,Iranians,Egyptians, Palestinians etc..

Not only Iranians, which are not Arabs but mostly Aryans, there are quite a few Africans aswell. The no passport for the married forigner rule was not always there also. So there is a lot of mix in there.

Alot of people from hyderabad India, where young brides were married to older men. I even know a few bengalis who have the passport.

Also keep in mind a lot have nationality ( passports ) but not all have citizenship.

Bora Bora wrote:
There are a great many UAE nationals that have Iranian bloodline.
Marry a UAE national and getting the passport would apply to expat women.
Those employed by the rulers - what nationalities would that be?

Those that were here "since the beginning" were Indian and British. The British, as far as I am aware, never sought the passport. On the other hand, it appears that it is Indians, the majority of who are not muslim, and pakistanis who have been here the longest and feel they "deserve" the passport. Maybe if they were ARAB and MUSLIM some consideration would have been given. This is an Arab muslim country and there is nothing wrong with the rulers and the UAE nationals wanting to keep it that way. Do you have any idea the knock off effect it would have over time on the GCC if they gave passports to Indians and Pakistanis?

There are plenty of countries they can migrate to that are willing to give anyone a passport.

I find something rather warped with that argument. However, I had to remind myself that this was coming from a long-term resident of Dubai. All this talk of "blood lines", and Arab Muslims, and keeping the status quo. And then, the Dubai coup de grace about Indians and Pakistanis. Reminds me of Hitler's Nazi Germany, and the sad end it came to.
Then you say "there are plenty of countries that give their passport to ANYONE. Anyone as in just any tom deeck and harry, just nobodies. (BTW, which are the "plenty of countries" that give a passport to ANYONE, care to name a few?) There is an implied arrogance there.
I remember when I was in Dubai, my brother from the US visited me, and we went to a "Pub" in one of the Hotels in Bur Dubai, I forget the name now, but it was besides the Spnneys (the old one). Quite a nice and cosy joint too. And after a few beers, we started chatting with an Englishman there, with a strong North Country accent. He became quite friendly with us, and told us that he was very close to the Amir of Qatar, and looked after most of his affairs. He went around in a Bentley. After about the 6th Beer, he admitted he was a Butcher from Darlington, Co Durham, before he came to Qatar. Just an ordinary butcher, but the Amir loved his white skin, and plucked him from Co Durham. Nothing wrong with a butcher, but here was a nobody who had become a somebody and considered himself very important because the Emir (or Amir) considered him important. Thats what happens in the Middle East.
We are all the Sheikh's creatures who throws the crumbs at us.
PEACE

desertdudeshj wrote:Not only Iranians, which are not Arabs but mostly Aryans, there are quite a few Africans aswell. The no passport for the married forigner rule was not always there also. So there is a lot of mix in there.

Alot of people from hyderabad India, where young brides were married to older men. I even know a few bengalis who have the passport.

Also keep in mind a lot have nationality ( passports ) but not all have citizenship.

I stand corrected. Keep in mind that was then, I was referring to the present.

I guess having the nationality is similar to one having the green card in the US or the "passport" to those to migrate to Canada.

I think its unfortunate that the expat parents who had children who were born and raised in Dubai weren't thinking about what the future held for their offspring, or did so with the hope that they would one day things would change in Dubai and the child(ren) would get the passport since Dubai was for all intents and purposes their "home". Whereas, in the US if you are not a citizen, reside there legally or illegally, at the birth of any child, that child is automatically an American citizen.

-- Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:29 am --

zonker wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:
There are a great many UAE nationals that have Iranian bloodline.
Marry a UAE national and getting the passport would apply to expat women.
Those employed by the rulers - what nationalities would that be?

Those that were here "since the beginning" were Indian and British. The British, as far as I am aware, never sought the passport. On the other hand, it appears that it is Indians, the majority of who are not muslim, and pakistanis who have been here the longest and feel they "deserve" the passport. Maybe if they were ARAB and MUSLIM some consideration would have been given. This is an Arab muslim country and there is nothing wrong with the rulers and the UAE nationals wanting to keep it that way. Do you have any idea the knock off effect it would have over time on the GCC if they gave passports to Indians and Pakistanis?

There are plenty of countries they can migrate to that are willing to give anyone a passport.

Then you say "there are plenty of countries that give their passport to ANYONE. Anyone as in just any tom deeck and harry, just nobodies. (BTW, which are the "plenty of countries" that give a passport to ANYONE, care to name a few?) There is an implied arrogance there.

We are all the Sheikh's creatures who throws the crumbs at us.
PEACE

The US, UK, Australia, Canada, to name a few, will give the passport to most anyone who migrates legally and who meet the requirements, regardless of race/religion/nationality.

Can an American, such as myself, get a passport and citizenship from China, the Phillipines, India, Pakistan even though I have no family connection in those countries? If an American family, and neither hold dual citizenship, is living in any of the countries I mentioned, and have children there, the children are American citizens, but does that child automatically qualify for the passport of the country they are born in?

I don't understand why long term expats who feel that they are being "cheated of certain rights" they believe are due them why don't they leave and migrate to another country or return to the country named on their passport. If you are not being held prisoner you are free to leave. The world is a very big place.

Agree with Bora, that is whats called LOGIC....

Bora Bora wrote:I don't understand why long term expats who feel that they are being "cheated of certain rights" that they believe are due them don't leave and migrate to another country or return to the country named on their passport. If you are not being held prisoner you are free to leave.

Its quite amusing to hear such comments by people from nations that themselves were built on and by immigrants and immigration.

I think the UAE has got it about right. Why should they dish their passport to just anyone?

desertdudeshj wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:Its quite amusing to hear such comments by people from nations that themselves were built on and by immigrants and immigration.

That seems to be the extent of your knowledge about the making of America. By your own admission, you aren't big on reading, so I can't recommend any books for you to educate yourself.

If you are referring to me, I am not "people", I am a "person". If you are referring to America, America is a nation - not nations.

Think of it this way: if America was built on the back of one of your ancestors you would be an American citizen.

I think the point here isn't about nationality more than if you can't adapt with where you live!! right?
So if you are a migrant or a worker abroad and can't adapt with the atmosphere where u r in, LEAVE...

But definitely if you can adapt and like your new home, then everybody is happy... about the passport and nationality discussion I think this needs a separate thread with much more details and opinions..

Mahmoud, it's not about adapting. It's about people thinking that the "deserve" a passport by virtue of the fact that they have lived in a country for most of their life. If one resents the fact that they are not entitled to a passport, based on the decisions of those that rule, that's when they should leave. Why stay in the UAE, or any country where expats will never get a passport, living in hope that one day they may get the passport?

Bethsmum wrote:I think the UAE has got it about right. Why should they dish their passport to just anyone?

BM, I agree with you! Do I have a choice?? The UAE is a small country, and has managed itself very well by CHEAP labour from many countries.

@Bora: Again, the US and Canada definitely are countries built by immigration. Go far enough back in Human history, and you will discover ALL countries are built by immigrants. The Human Race originated in Central Africa, and it was something in the genes that they started to push in all directions to explore. One of the wonderful things about Planet Earth is its amazing diversity. Occasional glitches, like Hitler's Nazi Germany and his ideas of a Nation of pure "Aryan" race did not succeed. Neither did South Africa's apartheid.

I hope you are aware that there are Americans enjoying living in all of those countries that you have mentioned: China, India, Pakistan.
Peace

zonker wrote:

Bethsmum wrote:I think the UAE has got it about right. Why should they dish their passport to just anyone?

BM, I agree with you! Do I have a choice?? The UAE is a small country, and has managed itself very well by CHEAP labour from many countries.

@Bora: Again, the US and Canada definitely are countries built by immigration. Go far enough back in Human history, and you will discover ALL countries are built by immigrants. The Human Race originated in Central Africa, and it was something in the genes that they started to push in all directions to explore. One of the wonderful things about Planet Earth is its amazing diversity. Occasional glitches, like Hitler's Nazi Germany and his ideas of a Nation of pure "Aryan" race did not succeed. Neither did South Africa's apartheid.

I hope you are aware that there are Americans enjoying living in all of those countries that you have mentioned: China, India, Pakistan.
Peace

Gee zonker, where did I say that the US and Canada weren't built by immigrants? I'm well aware of American history. And yes, there are Americans living in those countries that I mentioned - but I think you missed the point: would those Americans - who hold ONLY the American passport - be able to apply and get the passport of those respective countries? If an American is married to someone from that country, the children from that marriage would be able to get the passport, but the American wouldn't.

As for those originating in Central Africa, I don't think the slaves that were introduced to America by the British were exactly looking to explore.

No Zonker, you don't have a choice but to agree with BM!

'It's about people thinking that the "deserve" a passport by virtue of the fact that they have lived in a country for most of their life. If one resents the fact that they are not entitled to a passport, based on the decisions of those that rule, that's when they should leave. Why stay in the UAE, or any country where expats will never get a passport, living in hope that one day they may get the passport?

We are not asking for special treatment? Neither we asking for compensation from the government for not giving us passports. We just want our rights. That is it. These expat families not only lived here but helped build this country as well. And most of these expats come from unstable third world countries, Unlike you, they won't be going back to United states. It's quite easy for westerners to migrate, not so much for others, especially during the 'War on terror'.

Khalid021 wrote:

'It's about people thinking that the "deserve" a passport by virtue of the fact that they have lived in a country for most of their life. If one resents the fact that they are not entitled to a passport, based on the decisions of those that rule, that's when they should leave. Why stay in the UAE, or any country where expats will never get a passport, living in hope that one day they may get the passport?

We are not asking for special treatment? Neither we asking for compensation from the government for not giving us passports. We just want our rights. That is it. These expat families not only lived here but helped build this country as well. And most of these expats come from unstable third world countries, Unlike you, they won't be going back to United states. It's quite easy for westerners to migrate, not so much for others, especially during the 'War on terror'.

When you say "we just want our rights", what "rights" are you being denied? You don't want the passport, but you want your "rights". You make it sound so plain, simple and obvious. I would be interested in knowing exactly what you are referring to.

You and I live under the same rule and law in the UAE. If you feel you are being denied your "rights" why not apply to migrate to another country? Expats from all over the world helped to "build" this country. It takes more than being part of the labor force that built roads and erected buildings and villas to "build" a country.

You don't want the passport, but you want your "rights".

I never said I didn't wanted the passport. I said it's not just about a small book, it's about not being treated like a foreigner and the right to live here without renewing your visa.

It takes more than being part of the labor force

Not all non-western expats work as labourers. You should get out more.

If you feel you are being denied your "rights" why not apply to migrate to another country?

Yeah, it's very easy for a brown middle class muslim to migrate. The world is very different and difficult for a non-westerner especially for South Asian muslims, something you will never understand.

Just to tell you that I am not some lazy person who is just sits around whining about everything or work as a labourer. I am doing Bsc in Creative Computing from University of London as a distant student. And I sincerely do want the very best for this country. I love United Arab Emirates because it's home to me.

You will always be a foreigner in any country that is not your own, no matter how long you live there or whether you get a passport. Why not go back to your own country and try to build a future there?

Bora, for your information, expats dont have ANY rights in the UAE. You just have to renew your Residence Permit there every 3 years, and that is how the years pass , dragging into decades. A freind of mine, a personal Physician to one of the Sheikhs there, was driving on the highway, and was whacked by a local in his Land Cruiser from the rear, sending his car flying into the sand.When the Police arrived, they knew the Local guy, so they fell into a long and deep conversation with him, after prolonged greetings and nose touching and cheek kissing,and back-slapping, while the Physician (an Arab btw) did all he could to attract their attention to his predicament. They accorded him the importance of an insect, according to him.
I very much sympathize (or is it 'empathize'?) with Khalid. I can understand what he is saying.

You will always be a foreigner in any country that is not your own, no matter how long you live there or whether you get a passport.

So according to your logic, everyone in the world should go back to Africa where human beings originated.

Khalid021 wrote:

You will always be a foreigner in any country that is not your own, no matter how long you live there or whether you get a passport.

So according to your logic, everyone in the world should go back to Africa where human beings originated.

Not all, just most.

drewpeacock wrote:

Khalid021 wrote:

You will always be a foreigner in any country that is not your own, no matter how long you live there or whether you get a passport.

So according to your logic, everyone in the world should go back to Africa where human beings originated.

Not all, just most.

I'm here

Oh Khalid ! You remind me of myself so much. Read my older posts here, and you'll see the exact same refelections there.

I've got one advice for you, the sooner you realise no matter how long you have been here, no matter what you've done, none of that matters your just another "worker" and nothing else, the better. You and the guy who is about to land for the first time here in the next five minutes are on equal footing.

The sooner you stop hoping for a miracle to happen and come to terms with reality the better, get out of this place while you still can, you are an educated man and if you have decent work experience it would not be too hard.

Nothing is going to change here infact only worse, it has been mirrored in the local dailies that one of the concerns of the FNC is that sooner or later long term resident will start demanding rights and something has to be done about.

In a nutshell forget about a future here and wasting precious time and start looking at avenues to get out of here.

so u r back home Sag

desertdudeshj wrote:Oh Khalid ! You remind me of myself so much. Read my older posts here, and you'll see the exact same refelections there.

I've got one advice for you, the sooner you realise no matter how long you have been here, no matter what you've done, none of that matters your just another "worker" and nothing else, the better. You and the guy who is about to land for the first time here in the next five minutes are on equal footing.

The sooner you stop hoping for a miracle to happen and come to terms with reality the better, get out of this place while you still can, you are an educated man and if you have decent work experience it would not be too hard.

Nothing is going to change here infact only worse, it has been mirrored in the local dailies that one of the concerns of the FNC is that sooner or later long term resident will start demanding rights and something has to be done about.

In a nutshell forget about a future here and wasting precious time and start looking at avenues to get out of here.

Well said munchkin! Head back to your country of birth and do some good there instead of expecting others to give you a break. Be proud of your heritage!

-- Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:51 am --

Khalid021 wrote:

You will always be a foreigner in any country that is not your own, no matter how long you live there or whether you get a passport.

So according to your logic, everyone in the world should go back to Africa where human beings originated.

Please note I said 'why not' not 'you should'. I never did get why people turn their backs on their own country.

Khalid021 wrote:

it's about not being treated like a foreigner and the right to live here without renewing your visa.

It takes more than being part of the labor force

Not all non-western expats work as labourers. You should get out more.

If you feel you are being denied your "rights" why not apply to migrate to another country?

Yeah, it's very easy for a brown middle class muslim to migrate. The world is very different and difficult for a non-westerner especially for South Asian muslims, something you will never understand.

Just to tell you that I am not some lazy person who is just sits around whining about everything or work as a labourer. I am doing Bsc in Creative Computing from University of London as a distant student. And I sincerely do want the very best for this country. I love United Arab Emirates because it's home to me.

Khalid, you are a FOREIGNER living in the UAE!!! You need to come to terms with that fact. YOU made the UAE your home, but you can't make it your home country.

So the "rights" that you seek is not to be treated like a foreigner by virtue of not having to renew your visa. Do you think having a visa that doesn't have to be renewed, gives you the right to live in the UAE indefinitely would disqualify you from being a foreigner? If you aren't a foreigner, and you aren't a national, then what category would you fall into? What countries allow an expat a visa that allows them to live in that country on a long term basis and not consider them as "foreigners"?

South Asian muslims can immigrate the same way Arab muslims can. Granted it is tougher today, but it's still possible. Have you tried??

Listen to DDS, he has gone through the same struggle that you are going through and he has come to terms with how it is and realizes it is a situation that he has no control over and that change is not coming any time soon, so he is taking control over those things he can, and that is to relocate.

Who is to say that you wouldn't be happier somewhere else in a country that gives you the opportunity to make that country your home?

As far as my comment about laborers, apparently the point I was making was lost on you. EVERY expat that has been in Dubai, and continues to live in Dubai, contribute(d) to its development and keep the wheels turning.

-- Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:01 pm --

zonker wrote:Bora, for your information, expats dont have ANY rights in the UAE. You just have to renew your Residence Permit there every 3 years, and that is how the years pass , dragging into decades.

Errrrr, I'm an expat who has to renew my residence permit every 3 years, which has been done numerous times. I'm a foreigner in the UAE. I'm an expat in the UAE. This is not my home in the sense that I don't have the passport. The time that we stay in Dubai is up to us. We can leave whenever we want, and that applies to you and Khalid. To say that you have no other option is rubbish. Where there is a will, there is a way. As I've said before, the world is a big place. If you want to be stubborn and remain in the UAE, then learn to live with the facts, the laws, and the way things just are and let go of the attitude that the UAE owes you something.

I'm here long enough to know how the "system" works in every which way. It is what it is.