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by the way I am not denying that it happened, but I am saying this incident which is terrible, can't be enough to start analyzing and building opinions etc...

I wish you got what I mean...

Mahmoud

Apologies Mahmoud, I didn't think you were denying the attacks. All sensible people around the world recognise that most Egyptians (and indeed all decent people, of all religions and none) would be appalled at this real crime AND by the lies made up about crimes that didn't take place. Your posts did not give the impression that you didn't believe the assault took place.

What remains to be seen is why there are some here who want to believe the wild accusations made by the loon on youtube - DESPITE the fact there is no actual evidence for this loon rant.

I mean, even the entertainment website has the integrity to state that it is just an allegation made by a random person on Youtube. That the loons take this as evidence speaks volumes.

Another case of not letting facts get in the way of hatred.

Cheers,
Shafique

Well there's so much spin on this thread that I now feel perfectly dizzy

Let's keep it simple.

Is the random loon blogger's allegation on Youtube that Logan was gang raped, masturbated on etc anything a random loon fantasy that eh desperately wants to believe is true?

Logan says she wasn't raped. eh and his dodgy video think differently.

Simple. Reality vs loon fantasies.

Cheers,
Shafique

Logan says she wasn't raped.

Well, if Logan said she wasn't raped, then that's that.

Would you post the article where Lara Logan is quoted saying she wasn't raped?

shafique wrote:Let's keep it simple.

Aah I see, So nothing new there then, this current fight is more about your fear of EH rather than a constructive discussion on the subject matter.

As in most cases of this nature there will be misleading and inflammatory articles that any sensible reader will simply look past, heaven knows you post your fair share!

I’m sure in the fullness of time the complete details will emerge of the horrific attack suffered by Lara Logan, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1358944/Lara-Logan-attack-Stripped-punched-whipped-flag-poles.html

Simple is efficient.

Regards

Yes, you're right - we could ignore the loon fantasies that eh presented as fact.

But why should we do that? Won't that just encourage him to make up more loon fantasies in future and present as fact?

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon wrote:

Logan says she wasn't raped.

Well, if Logan said she wasn't raped, then that's that.

Would you post the article where Lara Logan is quoted saying she wasn't raped?

Did Lara Logan say she wasn't raped?

eh - this is your thread and you're the one who has posted supposed evidence about her being gang raped etc.

Will you join us in condemning the cynical lies if you can't, after all, provide any evidence that she was raped and abused as described by the Loon on Youtube?

Cheers,
Shafique

I'll be happy to condemn what I assume is a cynical lie - I'm just waiting on your end for confirmation.

Ok- I hope you live up to your promise:

South African-born journalist Lara Logan has spoken about the “darkest nightmare” of her life - an attack by a wild bunch of Egyptian youths as she was preparing to file a live report for CNN from Cairo’s Tahrir Square last Friday evening.
..
She said she had escaped being raped because of the intervention of a group of women who threw themselves on top of her, protecting her from further harm.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/africa/logan- ... -1.1029312

The events were reported on the TV by the station she works for. It was never said she was raped but said she had been assaulted and molested. Just as bad as being raped. The woman was physically violated and this also would have an emotional and psychological impact on her.

Bora - the real attack was horrific indeed, and I agree - the fact she wasn't physically raped is of little comfort to the victim.

What is distasteful is that a rant on Youtube describing gang-rape, masturbation etc is presented here as fact and indeed, excuses are made that 'it hasn't been shown to be a lie' etc.

The loon rant now appears to be clearly just another loon fantasy - something I said I suspected when it was first posted here. My suspicions proved correct. (And note that I said all along that if evidence proved the accounts true, I'd apologise for doubting).

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Bora - the real attack was horrific indeed, and I agree - the fact she wasn't physically raped is of little comfort to the victim.

What is distasteful is that a rant on Youtube describing gang-rape, masturbation etc is presented here as fact and indeed, excuses are made that 'it hasn't been shown to be a lie' etc.

The loon rant now appears to be clearly just another loon fantasy - something I said I suspected when it was first posted here. My suspicions proved correct. (And note that I said all along that if evidence proved the accounts true, I'd apologise for doubting).

Cheers,
Shafique

What is also distasteful is you not addressing another poster who found humor posting ing remarks about it.

Bora - what you think my shortcomings as a moderator are doesn't really change the fact eh posted a malicious lie and presented it as fact.

I let slide many a distasteful joke - from racist to se.xist etc. But I don't tolerate lies presented as truth.

(Nor do I let posts about politics reside in a forum about romance either )

Anyway - back to this thread.

It will be good to finally have everyone agree on the facts and have eh apologise for believing the rant on Youtube.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Bora - what you think my shortcomings as a moderator are doesn't really change the fact eh posted a malicious lie and presented it as fact.

I let slide many a distasteful joke - from racist to se.xist etc. But I don't tolerate lies presented as truth.

(Nor do I let posts about politics reside in a forum about romance either )

Anyway - back to this thread.

It will be good to finally have everyone agree on the facts and have eh apologise for believing the rant on Youtube.

Cheers,
Shafique

Nice to see where your interests lie and that you don't tolerate lies, but overlook such offensive statements. I'm not calling you on your moderation. Two other people commented on the remarks but you seem to have overlooked them yourself, considering that you found the incident appalling.

But you are so focused on EH maybe you missed it. If you think EH should apologize, then raise the point that poster who was so offensive should apologize as well. As you know, neither will.

Always happy to clarify where my values lie.

I thought I was quite clear in my first post in this thread:

shafique wrote:If there is indeed video footage of this crime (as described) then the 'bearded' rapist and other rapists should be captured and punished.

However, let's wait and see whether this is a real description of the crime or whether this is another Loon blogger fantasy. It would be truly sick if they made up these details to fuel their hatred of Islam and Muslims.

As the blogger is stating this description is based on video footage - we should at least be able to see some still footage (censored where necessary) which corroborates this horrific description.

If it turns out that this is just a fabrication - then the loons should bow their heads in shame and apologise to the reporter.

Avoid, duck, swerve, scramble

Loons caught out in a lie, and now it is my fault. Classic.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Loons caught out in a lie, and now it is my fault. Classic.

Cheers,
Shafique

Again: avoid, duck, swerve, scramble, and let's add selective. Focus Shaf!!!! Focus!!!!

I'm waiting for eh to acknowledge the lies and apologise. No need for smokescreens to mask the fact he hasn't done so yet.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:I'm waiting for eh to acknowledge the lies and apologise. No need for smokescreens to mask the fact he hasn't done so yet.

Cheers,
Shafique

It appears you as well use mirrors and smokescreens to avoid certain issues that are addressed to you.

If you think so.

One issue at a time Bora. Focus.

Loon lie exposed. Loon apology expected. When it comes, we can address your other issues.

Cheers,
Shafique

Well you know that an apology will never come from eh, which is his right. And you knowing that helps you to avoid commenting on your chum's offensive comment. You are going to have to blow more smoke Shaf for me not to see through to you.

Apparently you can't multi-task and address two issues at a time. Oh, well.

shafique wrote:Ok- I hope you live up to your promise:

South African-born journalist Lara Logan has spoken about the “darkest nightmare” of her life - an attack by a wild bunch of Egyptian youths as she was preparing to file a live report for CNN from Cairo’s Tahrir Square last Friday evening.
..
She said she had escaped being raped because of the intervention of a group of women who threw themselves on top of her, protecting her from further harm.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/africa/logan- ... -1.1029312

Hmm so does it state that Logan gave an interview? Does the article quote anyone as making the statement? Apparently Logan spoke to family in Durban and this is what has come of it? Were the journalists tapping her phone? This is nothing more than opportunistic journalism at it's very best. Thus far no details have emerged and Logan herself is not speaking about the incident.

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/02/21/lara- ... port-says/

Apologies can be kept on hold until further notice.

And seriously to ask for details of the incident? How low can one stoop? In the interest of her privacy the details may never come out and rightfully so!!!

^Well, if the youtube loon has some evidence that his rant is more accurate than Logan's quote above, let's see it.

I'm still quite prepared to apologise if the loon rant turns out to be true. Until then, I have one report from South Africa quoting Logan saying she wasn't raped and a loon rant on Youtube giving a detailed description of gang rape.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Well, if the youtube loon has some evidence that his rant is more accurate than Logan's quote

Again there is no quote.

In the absence of details rumors, facts and fiction get do get embroiled like a Chinese Whisper. But that shouldn't become the core of anyone's focus. The condemnation should be univocal.

If you want to focus on something else - fine.

I'm focusing on whether the loon rant on Youtube presented as fact is indeed factual, or another loon fantasy.

The fact Logan says in an interview she wasn't raped, is good enough evidence for me in the absence of anything that contradicts this.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:^Well, if the youtube loon has some evidence that his rant is more accurate than Logan's quote above, let's see it.

I'm still quite prepared to apologise if the loon rant turns out to be true. Until then, I have one report from South Africa quoting Logan saying she wasn't raped and a loon rant on Youtube giving a detailed description of gang rape.

Cheers,
Shafique

Shaf, no where does it QUOTE Logan. A statement by an unnamed friend is NOT the same as Logan speaking out.

"Lara is getting better daily. The psychological trauma is as bad as, if not worse than, the physical injuries," an unnamed friend of Logan's told The Times. "She might talk about it at some time in the future, but not now."

You say you have a report from South Africa?? with her quoting what happened, or didn't happen? Can you please provide that report. I can't see Logan making a statement to a reporter in South Africa, and not a public statement to more reputable sources, such as the news station she works for.

So, as MCL says, apologies will have to be put on hold IF and WHEN Logan provides details to what happened to her. In your world you may have only one definition of rape. "Rape" takes place in different forms. Being sexually violated against one's will by any means is rape.

In the US rape/sexual assault is defined as:

Rape is forced sexual intercourse, including vaginal, anal, or oral penetration. Penetration may be by a body part or an object.

Sexual assault is unwanted sexual contact that stops short of rape or attempted rape. This includes sexual touching and fondling. (But, be aware: Some states use this term interchangeably with rape.)

As I said, I'm satisfied with the report from Logan saying she wasn't raped - I'm asking for any evidence to back up the graphic description given by the loon on youtube (and which eh presented as fact).

Both can't be right.

Cheers,
Shafique